This would not work, these things are too expensive to dump in the middle of the forest and pray it holds. The best places for them are like Praag in that they have a population, a garrison and some strategic depth between them and the gribbles.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
This would not work, these things are too expensive to dump in the middle of the forest and pray it holds. The best places for them are like Praag in that they have a population, a garrison and some strategic depth between them and the gribbles.
There is also a powerful symbolism in the first Waystone being used to attack The Worst of Chaos in a city that carries the most specifically potent reminders. It's an immediate statement about it *not just* being a long term weapon. On a bridge where people enlisted to die in defense of the city by the hundreds hundreds, the joint project of a dozen different magical traditions deployed the most potent weapon against chaos in centuries.
Last edited:
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
#2 seems to be the closest to what most people were imagining in discussions about De-Praag'ing Praag, I think. But, #1 is the one that will make citizens feel the most like Praag is being de-Praag'ed. It's not a dilemma I was expecting.
Generals have shelled out more money for less replaceable things. Being able to run into an awful dhar pool on campaign and have the option to spend money to make your troops able to permanently hold that place without growing crab claws is something that has for centuries been essentially impossible.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
In many ways this is a test case for us as well. We want to have clear and obvious data for our own models.
Wish that cameras existed so we could take before and after pictures.
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To be honest, I think Boris has gotten enough from us. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but especially considering the effects of all of these will still happen? He has enough shinies.
Setting precedent is another matter, but I still think it's the worst option. Chaos is waxing and the Everchosen is coming, and we have the first Waystones in a thousand years. I don't want to be the guy known for helping the most privileged with their economic success, especially over fighting the baddies or saving the people.
Last edited:
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
Some corrections I noticed.
This should be unbroken I believe?
Been is superfluous here, or perhaps it should be "having been established on a good relationship."
- Pronouns
- He/His/etc
The downside is that's it's very much a stress-test for our still-experimental design work. If it can handle this it can handle anything, but can it handle this?
- Location
- Aotearoa
I want to bear in mind in deciding what to vote for that the rigors required in following up on the Bridge of Death option will not (in Mathilde's opinion) be well-looked-on by the local population, even as the benefits can be explained to the Z'ra. The other options are mentioned as perhaps not impressing a constituency, but weren't specifically mentioned as having immediate negative impact and perception among a group-
Last edited:
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well if it can't handle it then it's better to find out now so we can do a rework before deploying them everywhere even if it is egg on our face.
We certainly would not want to find out that they explode under too high load during the next storm of chaos.
Last edited:
I really doubt that, these things are state of the art made by the very highest specialists of other states. Getting them isn't a matter of economics, it is a matter of international diplomacy.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Much as I like attacking the most tainted parts directly, I won't vote to send a ton of people to their deaths for it. The Waystones can work their effects a little bit more gradually by eating away at the Dhar from the outside in, as far as I'm concerned. I'll be voting for Karlsbridge.
- Pronouns
- He
On the other hand... we don't live in Praag, we don't have any interests in Praag, can some pissed-off burghers really bother us that much?
I regret to inform you that this is Warhammer and sending a ton of people to their death is how we fix this. Now or later they are getting sent to their deaths. The gribbles will not go quietly into the night no matter how much we try to massage the tumor.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm in favor of the Bridge of Death, it's the best option for decontaminating Praag as fast as possible and while in the short-term the citizens won't like the toll in lives it will take to set up one it is set up and its capability demonstrated the local ruler will start funding more sooner rather than later and will eventually spread the Waystone deployment to the other more populated parts of Praag and its surroundings, in the long-run I feel this is the best starting point.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Not consequences for us personally, no, of course not. But in terms of the reception of the projects- "Waystones go up and mutant cultist murderers go crazy'- could complicate matters for our hopes for wide and rapid deployment.
Seems to me that the river gate would provide the most benefit for everyone as a first choice.
It's the best advertisement for the project to other rulers even if it isn't the flashiest of the options, and as the biggest nearby city reclaiming that slice of the area's economy will improve the lives of everyone who lives in the city to some degree.
It's also not just economic, it's strategic. It's pushing the Chaos Wastes back in a way helps the position of Kislev as a whole most immediately.
For the purposes of political leaders a waystone is a strategic and economic tool. You plunk them down to make your territory more friendly to you and less friendly to the unspeakable horrors of the night as a long term investment. The river gate gives exactly the right impression of their use.
It's the best advertisement for the project to other rulers even if it isn't the flashiest of the options, and as the biggest nearby city reclaiming that slice of the area's economy will improve the lives of everyone who lives in the city to some degree.
It's also not just economic, it's strategic. It's pushing the Chaos Wastes back in a way helps the position of Kislev as a whole most immediately.
For the purposes of political leaders a waystone is a strategic and economic tool. You plunk them down to make your territory more friendly to you and less friendly to the unspeakable horrors of the night as a long term investment. The river gate gives exactly the right impression of their use.
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This isn't just about who cares now:
Maybe for all those other cities that have a designated mutant quarter.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
You mean like the Battle Altars?
- Location
- Australia
I think this needs fixing.
'he will', since his pronouns are established.
- Location
- Aotearoa
There are other nexuses of deep and lasting corruption we'd hope the Project can make inroads into, several within the Empire, and as others have pointed out this is about the perception and expectations we create for that project.
Yeah, otherwise known as screaming ruins you send the state troops into. There is no civilian population in Mordheim to upset unless you mean the ghouls.
No, I mean like battle altars you need a dwarf runesmiths and an elf high mage to make.
Last edited:
Outside of just Kislev where it was mentioned as a thing at the coronation, the idea of 'the age of reclamation' and Order factions taking offensive action aligns pretty well with current geopolitical trends with the Dwarfs and Eight Peaks/the silver road campaign as well as the campaign to retake Sylvania so it's sort of riding the wave of already existing sentiments and positive outcomes among three of the four major project groups which could go a long way. I can even see it sort of fitting Ulthuan as well though not so neatly as their position seems more defensive on the whole.
So... If in the long run, we're going to do all three, and it will accomplish all three objectives, then...
Then I think we should focus on number 1; focus on the people first.
Because "It will help the people, it will prevent gribblies and mutations" is a great way to sell the idea of Waystones to rulers and populace both.
If you want to explain a more academic or theoretical idea like "This'll fight back Chaos", you can explain it to the rulers and court wizards when you talk to the rulers already. But this, this will provide a demonstration and build populist support (ideally, anyway). You can't argue your way into populist support so easily.
Yes, we want the Waystones in order to defeat Chaos, strategically. (Though we also just want to, flatly, help people too. It's not all clear skies research or ideas. We want to feel good about directly helping people too.) But how do we want to sell that idea to people? What is most attractive to people, what gets them most riled up? "Do this weird magic thing and it'll beat Chaos in the long run" isn't something that the common man, or even common ruler, is going to get fired up about.
But if he can get fired up about his people being happier, healthier, safer -- and not weirded out by magic stones that might require a purging or cause clapback or something -- then he'll be more inclined to get our Waystones.
Ideally generate more acceptance, or at least not generate antipathy. This is good. We don't necessarily need to blare this out as "This fights Chaos!", we just need to get this done and sold and deployed everywhere.
The rulers still have to care about how their people feel about things. If their people feel negatively, they might be more cautious about trying this. If they feel positively, that's good.
Good for the nation, but is it good for Praag? The places that will hold the Waystones will, first and foremost, be defended by the people who live there. (Or sabotaged.) So better get them on-board and happy with things, rather than uncaring or annoyed.
So, my thoughts are, since any amount of Waystones is already going to be accomplishing the objective of "fighting back the Chaos Wastes and Chaos"... well, what's the best way to sell it to people, the local rulers, and the kings?
Some of us might be more enthused by some long term ideal or idea, but we don't necessarily have to market our idea or cause by that thing; we can just say "This'll help your people" and then give them tangible benefits for helping their people. And then wind up accomplishing our long-term anti-Chaos goals just through helping people.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pleasing the people of Praag is kind of important, here. Getting them used to Waystones and supportive of them will make future deployments a lot easier.
Also, the people of Praag are the ones in most need of help. This should be for them.
Also, the people of Praag are the ones in most need of help. This should be for them.
Last edited: