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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Bridge of Death seems like the place to go to get the biggest and most visible results. Going from streets bleeding pus to not bleeding pus is a big visible change.

Also there is a nice symbolism in lancing the wound with a sharp stone piller.
 
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'In service to the people who live there' has the best ring to me. When we were setting up tributaries in Sylvannia, the big picture we pitched was one of safe citizens first and foremost.

The bridge of death is compelling too though, going straight for the worst of it even if that's not where people actually live. Creates an excellent before/after, but the symbolism just won't be as idealistic imo.

I suppose this just underlines the importance of coming up with a different model with a different supply chain.

Boney said:
but whose former Apprentices have done something very wrong indeed. Banishment from Altdorf is the most common and banishment from Reikland isn't unknown, but banishment from the Empire is very rare indeed
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Using "very adjective indeed" twice in two sentences reads a bit awkward. May want to rephrase.
Boney said:
Pac1fication
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*Pacification
 
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If the Zra's for it then I'd go for New Town. It becomes a very obvious thing we can point future sceptics at and say "See? SEE?"
People will be unhappy, but dealing with that is literally the Zra's problem.
 
So our options are setting up the first one to appeal to the safety and comfort of the citizens, to appeal to the local governments who have to deal with heavily tainted areas, or to the Tzar as a subtle but noticeable economic benefit.

This is about the reputation, not what we'll actually accomplish (all of them, with effort), so we're deciding here how we're going to pitch the stones to other rulers, actually.

So do we want to sell them as a comfort, as a stake in geographic vampire hearts, or as an economic thing?
 
Here from the beginning of a turn for the first time! The Bridge of Death option does have potential for more references to Chernobyl down the line which might not be great from a PR perspective but is definitely a lot more fun as a reader :lol2:
 
RwconHD said:
There is space for write ins? We are going to need more info and discussion on that. Maybe a plan that takes the best of all worlds or a better compromise?
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There is only one river passing through the city and we want to put the waystone on a river if possible. That really just leaves where the river enters the city, where it leaves the city and at the bridge in the middle.

No symbolism anywhere else.
 
fictionfan said:
Bridge of Death seems like the place to go to get the biggest and most visible results. Going from streets bleeding pus to not bleeding pus is a big visible change.

Also there is a nice symbolism in lancing the wound with a sharp stone piller.
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I agree, but it does have the short-term problem of needing a garrison. We might even need to step in and conduct...proactive reconnaissance.

Edit: While the River Gate option will get the Tzars favour, I think the symbolism of starting the push back at the place Chaos pushed the furthest is better.
 
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Boney said:
"A privilege," he says, bowing lower than the circumstances call for.
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An even deeper bow than he gave to Mathilde?

Okay, is doing something with the Fire Spire actually going to happen? Having the common folk of Praag liking us would be useful for that and it's the only reason I can see for the first option. Otherwise, it's a choice between the other two and I'm thinking the Tzar. We don't live in Praag, or even Kislev, and having good relations with people who can only affect things in Praag or Kislev isn't as important as making nice with the Tzar of All Russia Kislev.
 
chocolote12 said:
So our options are setting up the first one to appeal to the safety and comfort of the citizens, to appeal to the local governments who have to deal with heavily tainted areas, or to the Tzar as a subtle but noticeable economic benefit.

This is about the reputation, not what we'll actually accomplish (all of them, with effort), so we're deciding here how we're going to pitch the stones to other rulers, actually.

So do we want to sell them as a comfort, as a stake in geographic vampire hearts, or as an economic thing?
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Considering the elder races backing our NGO are still filthy rich and don't care about cattle farming, fighting chaos is a bette Rand more universal message.
 
I don't think marginal political considerations are that important. Directly addressing the very worst of the problem seems most symbolically appropriate, and if it makes the Z'ra happy so much the better. If the Z'ra is happy then I can't imagine Boris being unhappy. And while it might not provide the most immediate benefit to the citizens of Praag, it's probably the best-long term choice and, even if no other waystones were deployed, would probably eventually drain the taint from the rest of the city.
 
chocolote12 said:
So our options are setting up the first one to appeal to the safety and comfort of the citizens, to appeal to the local governments who have to deal with heavily tainted areas, or to the Tzar as a subtle but noticeable economic benefit.

This is about the reputation, not what we'll actually accomplish (all of them, with effort), so we're deciding here how we're going to pitch the stones to other rulers, actually.

So do we want to sell them as a comfort, as a stake in geographic vampire hearts, or as an economic thing?
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To turn this into a non-obvious observation, I think we could expect some future options if we kept going down these roads:

If as a comfort, we could expect local nobility in safe areas to want them more to reduce civic unrest. The citizens thinking good things about the rocks means that putting them up goes in the same category as nobles donating to the local charities or whatever. So it'll catch a lot of idle money and thrive as a luxury expenditure. Importantly, the citizens will also know the rocks are good, which means good things are happening.

If as a vampire stake, I can see these being requisitioned by generals. They'd get a reputation as magical siege engines and it'd be a worthy one. Bringing waystones on campaign to Fully Establish Territory would be useful when digging into the worst parts of Beastman groves and such. Remember all those tainted places in the Sylvania campaign way back when? Generals might end up seeing these as a solution to that. The Empire does a lot of warring and I think they'd end up where they'd need to be.

If as an economic benefit, they'd be something lords spend money on to make money. They'd get the most extra attention from people near badlands that they want to be good-er lands. That mostly means Kislev, I guess, but every noble does like money somewhat. As the opposite of a luxury, they'd be more immune to people tightening their belts, but I think they wouldn't be as attractive to citizens -- and the opinion of peasants is something that we as wizards do benefit from cultivating, what with the burning and all.
 
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I feel like I prefer the symbolism of the first and second option more than the third. It was Praag that bled for the Old World's sake, and it is Praag that the Old World shall repay.

The question is whether that's being a symbol of being on the offensive, getting the first strike against the world's horrors, even at the risk of riling them up while the effort is underway...

Or a defensive symbol: Protecting the citizens and their well-being first and foremost.

Tricky choice.
 
What would maximize the impact on the magical landscape without leaving 'margins' that would be awkward to fill in later?

I want a political message of 'the solution works and we intend to see it through.' Accompanying 5 year expansion plan optional.
 
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The Bridge of Death says, to me, "This is a tool in the eternal war against chaos, prepare to fight with and for it", which frankly I feel is probably the right attitude given looming Everchosen.
 
Silver719 said:
What would maximize the impact on the magical landscape without leaving 'margins' that would be awkward to fill in later?

I want a political message of 'the solution works and we intend to see it through.' Accompanying 5 year expansion plan optional.
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If 'works' means less still-rotting bodies, #2. If 'works' means a more prosperous country, #3.

I think the thread, and so Mathilde, does feel like the still-rotting bodies are the bigger 'issue', if we're counting bads and not goods. It also would advertise to the sorts we like -- people whose job it is to put more literal kinds of stakes into more literal monsters.
 
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Boney said:
As used as you are to simply dropping by people whenever you want a word with them, that tends to be more frowned upon at the echelons of power you're currently dealing with, especially with foreign rulers. And considering your history of dropping by Kislevite rulers, Boris might take it as some sort of veiled message. So you suppress your normal impulses and send word through the proper channels, and word comes back through the proper channels. Boris' response to your announcement that Praag is going to be the first benefactor of the Waystone Project's greatest success spends only one line on gratitude, but the length of the rest of the letter is, if anything, even more fulsome than if he'd spent several paragraphs on it. That Boris is taking the time to personally brief you on the political situation of Praag instead of leaving it to an underling or simply letting you figure it out for yourself speaks to how seriously he is taking this.
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Boris is grateful that Mathilde is going all in on this but he's most focused on how to get this shit done first and foremost. Man has a good head on his shoulders and we made the right call speeding up inheritance.

Boney said:
Of course, the dynamic changed after Praag's near-destruction in the Great War Against Chaos, and though Tzar Alexis did make some attempts to rebuild it, Tzarina Kattarin was too busy tormenting the southern cities to care much about the ruins of the northern one. Towards the end of her reign it seems to have rebuilt enough to be desirable again, and the Kalishinivik family seems to have been established in Praag as part of some attempt to suborn it, but that was foiled first by the dethroning of the Tzarina and later by the family's purging after the Battle of the Shirokij. Praag seems to have benefited from what might charitably be called the hands-off ruling style of Tzar Vladimir, and with Tzar Boris' powerbase having been established a good relationship with the Ungols rather than dominance over them, it seems primed to do even better. Praag's state is dire at a glance, but when looked at from far enough back, you can see it clawing its way slowly but surely out of the devastation left by the Great War. The current Z'ra, Rudolf III, is new to the throne and looking to establish himself, and Boris believes that securing his cooperation should be simple as long as your Waystone can perform as promised.
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Praag has one hell of a history and Boris is making moves to tie it to his powerbase more.

Boney said:
You, Niedzwenka, and Zlata arrive in Praag aboard a captured longship that Zlata managed to borrow from Erengrad and Niedzwenka has piloted in defiance of current and wind, its threatening silhouette rather disrupted by it being full of a massive stone obelisk rather than Norse raiders. Someone under the Tzar has been talking to someone under the Z'ra to get everyone on the same page, and you're expected and awaited by a representative of the Z'ra. What you don't expect is someone wearing the robes of a Magister of the Gold Order, who looks deeply intimidated and is making no attempt to conceal it. "Lady Magister Mathilde Weber?" he asks as you step up onto the wharf, and at your affirmative he hands over a set of papers containing his Wizarding credentials. His papers are in order, but a supplement to them answers one question and raises several more - Magister Conrad Becher is banished from the Empire. Banishment as a punishment is most common for Wizards who haven't done anything wrong themselves, but whose former Apprentices have done something very wrong indeed. Banishment from Altdorf is the most common and banishment from Reikland isn't unknown, but banishment from the Empire is much rarer, as it's a rather narrow slice of offences bad enough to get one banished entirely from the Empire without crossing a line into earning execution or Pacification.
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Poor dude he's getting approached by Mathilde a Grey Lady Magister while being a shady Colligate Wizard and he's been around in Kislev long enough to know Niedzwenka is terrifying.

Boney said:
You stare the man down for a moment, then nod. "That will have to do," you say. In truth having a cowed Magister as your point of contact will probably be a great deal easier than dealing directly with a foreign ruler, but there's no need to let him relax just yet, at least not until you write back to the Colleges and find out what mischief this Magister got up to. "This is Ice Maiden Zlata and Baba Niedzwenka, serving as representatives of their traditions."
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Fear is something she can use.

Boney said:
A few days later, you receive word from Altdorf in response to your request for information on Magister Conrad Becher's current standing. It seems he got himself involved in a counterfeiting ring that itself was later suborned by some sort of heretical organization, and then became an informer for the proper authorities and was instrumental in bringing that organization down. Though it did all work out in the end, the adulteration of specie is a very serious crime and using the Wind of Metal to make it impossible to identify is not the sort of purpose that the Colleges have in mind for their graduates.

Reading between the lines, the impression you get of Conrad Becher is someone who either has a stunted but not completely disabled sense of morality, willing to perform moderate misdeeds but has a line they will not cross, or someone who completely lacks morality but who does possess common sense. Not ideal, perhaps, but you can work with this. Your cause is righteous and you have the backing of the majority of the continent behind you, so the same impulses that led him to report his former employees will make sure that if push comes to shove, he'll side with you over the Z'ra. The 'or else' is already hanging very loudly in the air without you having to do something as gauche as actually say it.
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So basically he's a bad guy but not stupidly so.

Boney said:
The first, and also the least offensive and most politically resonant, is to place the first Waystone underneath the Karlsbridge - named after Z'ra Karl the XII, beloved by the locals of Praag and everywhere else remembered only as a failed secessionist - to service Old Town. On one side will be the ruins of the Fire Spire, a monument to Praag's past fruitful cooperation with foreign magical traditions, and the Magnus Gardens, the only wholesome place to be found within Praag's cursed walls and named for Magnus the Pious. Its connection point to the greater network will be a Waystone within the gardens, the centrepiece of the Celestial Observatory, now bereft of those attuned to Azyr but still faithfully reporting the position of the planets, with the Waystone representing Söll. Future Waystones will be stablished in Old Town, which is the least tainted but most densely-populated quarter of Praag. Least tainted in Praag is still fairly tainted by any sane estimation, and taming the oddities that disquiet the densest (albeit least-threatened) portion of the local population will be a crowd-pleaser and will ideally generate a quiet acceptance for future, more ambitious deployments.
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It's the choie that shows the Empire is helping out and shows a lot of results.

Boney said:
The second is going right for the throat of the taint within Praag, by placing the first Waystone underneath the Bridge of Death - so named because it's the bridge that many crossed to sign up for Praag's defence at the Citadel and few of them ever returned. Situated at the heart of Old Town and in the shadow of the Citadel of Praag, a Waystone placed here will be safe from retaliation by any thinking servants of Chaos that might be found within Praag, allowing for further Waystones to be deployed one by one upstream in Newtown. Newtown is where the streets bleed pus, the walls rearrange themselves at night, and the bodies of those slain in Praag's sacking somehow still linger to disgorge disease and insects and worse. This will undoubtedly do the most good for Praag in the long run and will be looked well upon by the kind of person who has a Wizard in their employ to explain that to them, but in immediate term most citizens of Praag will only know of riled-up denizens of Chaos and the inevitable death toll that taking and holding parts of Newtown to establish Waystones within them will reap.
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Makes the nobles really happy and heals the streets but while it's defensible it's a huge target.

Boney said:
he third route is to overlook Praag entirely to get the ball rolling on pushing back the Chaos Wastes, by placing the first Waystone underneath Praag's River Gate with an eye to establishing Waystones in the headwaters of the Lynsk. When the Chaos Wastes crept south during the Great War and only partially receded, the new foreshore of Chaos encompassed previously-productive grazelands, forests, and mines, as well as forward outposts to guard against incursions and waypoints for trade with Karak Vlag and Cathay. Reclaiming those will not just make Chaos' position slightly less advantageous should there be another Great War, but will also benefit the economy of Kislev as those industries can be restored and cattle, lumber, ore, and trade can flow south once more. But all that might fall on deaf ears for people whose lives and livelihoods are contained within the walls of Praag.
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The daring choice.

Boney said:
Flanked by a Hag Witch from Erengrad and an Ice Witch from Kislev City, and with your point of contact more focused on what the attention of a Grey Wizard would usually mean for the likes of him, there's nobody present who is both willing and able to opine strongly on the subject. The decision is entirely yours.
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Yeah she has way to much backing to have anything but free reign on this.

WestOrEast said:
An even deeper bow than he gave to Mathilde?

Okay, is doing something with the Fire Spire actually going to happen? Having the common folk of Praag liking us would be useful for that and it's the only reason I can see for the first option. Otherwise, it's a choice between the other two and I'm thinking the Tzar. We don't live in Praag, or even Kislev, and having good relations with people who can only affect things in Praag or Kislev isn't as important as making nice with the Tzar of All Russia Kislev.
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Boney said:
Being terrified counts as a formal greeting to a Grey Wizard.
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Man is rightfully terrified.
 
I feel #2 is easier to show that it works in an indisputable fashion. Instead of dry reports showing an average of 8% increased agricultural yield over a region of… it's somewhere you can literally see the difference with your eyes.
 
chocolote12 said:
If 'works' means less still-rotting bodies, #2. If 'works' means a more prosperous country, #3.

I think the thread, and so Mathilde, does feel like the still-rotting bodies are the bigger 'issue', if we're counting bads and not goods. It also would advertise to the sorts we like -- people whose job it is to put more literal kinds of stakes into more literal monsters.
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While that is the overall intent, I was more referring to future proofing.

I want to give the impression that we will continue to dump resources into Kislev, if only to minimize the chance of ASOIAF White-Walker invasion down the line. If that means a slightly suboptimal initial point for a more efficient array placement later, then that's fine.
 
I think starting with the Bridge of Death is possibly one of the most thematic introductions to new waystones that there could possibly be.

A literal beach head into the corruption, having to fight tooth and nail to secure it, and then, through effort and time, positive change. That's just so fitting for the setting of Warhammer. It will be bloody, but we can make the world a safer place from the forces of Chaos.
 
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