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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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GrimTheMad said:
It's Praag. There are no options that only have a little Dhar. Anywhere we put this thing will have visible and obvious effects.
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Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make earlier. "The square used to have screaming at night and now it doesn't" and "written words would get up and wander off and now that doesn't happen" is extremely noticeable without longitudinal tracking of mutation rates.

The least affected areas of Praag are still a horrorshow by Imperial standards.
 
At the end of the day if an Imperial or an Eonir asked us 'why did you put the stone in Kislev first in spite of them doing the least to help?' we can answer 'they needed it most/they had the most Chaos', an answer which is somewhat undercut by not putting the stone in the most tainted place in Praag. To be clear I do not think anyone's going to shout at us over this, but I think people will notice the inconsistency and mark it down.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think that if you put the thing close it puts them on more of a timer which can only be good in the long term. It is worth noting that the people of Praag have tried burning that place out before. The moment reality becomes stable enough to allow fire to burn unabated New Town is ash.
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They've burned down portions of Newtown before, they could turn it to ash right now if they wanted. It just wouldn't fix anything.
 
I think this might be a case of triage. All of Praag is going to get a Waystone eventually, so I would rather hit the worst affected areas now. We're going to have to provoke Newtown eventually, might as well as get it out of the way before they can build up strength against the other parts of the city.

Besides, between picking a street that bleeds at night and a street that eats people at night, I think tackling the latter first is the better idea.

The fact that it advertises the waystones at the aristocratic level is the cherry on top—they are the ones who are going to be paying for it after all.
 
DragonParadox said:
At the end of the day if an Imperial or an Eonir asked us 'why did you put the stone in Kislev first in spite of them doing the least to help?' we can answer 'they needed it most/they had the most Chaos', an answer which is somewhat undercut by not putting the stone in the most tainted place in Praag.
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I don't agree. The 'they' in 'they needed it most' are the people living in Praag. We're not plopping down Waystones in the middle of the Chaos wastes (which surely have more Chaos than Praag) or in Mordheim (which is also an incredibely corrupted city, but also mostly abandoned). we're putting them down in the most Chaos tainted inhabited area. Picking the most Chaosy part or the most inhabited part are both in line with what we're doing.
 
Mopman43 said:
Right, I just disagree with your statement here.

I don't see anything stating that they couldn't do that right now if they wanted.
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It is pointless right now because the corruption will just make it grow back. My point is they are not going to wait until reality gets strong enough that you can wade in there with swords, they are going to burn it again the moment they are confident things will stay burned.

mathymancer said:
I don't agree. The 'they' in 'they needed it most' are the people living in Praag. We're not plopping down Waystones in the middle of the Chaos wastes (which surely have more Chaos than Praag) or in Mordheim (which is also an incredibely corrupted city, but also mostly abandoned). we're putting them down in the most Chaos tainted inhabited area. Picking the most Chaosy part or the most inhabited part are both in line with what we're doing.
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Whose perspective are we speaking from here? Because the view from say Middleland is that we said that we choose Praag because it was badly affected... and then we choose Old Town because it was the most politically palatable. The Graff of Middleland (to give an example) may care about the well-being of his own subjects, if he is a good lord, he definitely does not care about the wellbeing of the people of Praag, just Kislev's ability to fight Chaos which is better demonstrated with the destruction of Mutant Central. This is about optics, the whole vote and the audience lives several thousand miles away and does not speak Kislevite.
 
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Do we know how fast that Waystones pull Dhar out of physical material of a place? What timelines are we looking at here?

fictionfan said:
Are we going to bother with tributaries here in Pragg or just put more waystones anywhere that we could put a tributary?
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I'm not sure it's worth it.

Tributaries only drain Earthbound Magic, and that's not Praag's problem I think, Dhar's the problem, and Tributaries don't seem to do anything to help with that.
 
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
I think, upon a rereading of the update (did it get more details on the placements?) first Waystone, Bridge of Death, Second Waystone Karlsbridge(river/water link up to rest of Waystones) and then a march into New Town is the best option. Stir shit up while Mathilde is there to watch it get stirred up and take part in the defense/hunting of those dismayed by the loss of power/taint.

High risk/high reward option, where either Mat gets blamed for all the trouble... or the Ungor go: "Chaos hates this stone? Enough to come out in the open where we can fight them? Bring more of them! We're taking back our city!"

It can be a disaster... or a rallying cry long before chaos is ready to put an army to crush it... if it isn't already ready for that. Because, you know, visions. It's entirely possible that upon placing our Waystone down, suddenly, Chaos. Or just after we leave, if Mat can't find and kill tainted mages amidst all the taint. Which would be quite hard to do in a city not her own.

...man, the Night Stalker might have been really useful for hunting Chaos Cults in this accursed town, huh? Even if it would have put Ranald's blessing possibly against enemy Wards.

Still, Mat is a follower of Ranald and she hasn't gambled with anything this big recently. Thought I am sad the Gambler was not committed to this, most important of actions. We'll see if we've reason to regret that.
 
Alratan said:
I'm not sure it's worth it.

Tributaries only drain Earthbound Magic, and that's not Praag's problem I think, Dhar's the problem, and Tributaries don't seem to do anything to help with that.
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This quote implies that spamming tributaries will in fact help with Praag.
Boney said:
The 'standard' deployment would be eight tributaries per Waystone with each tributary being right on the horizon from the Waystone, but that assumes a flat featureless plain that geography rarely cooperates with and the Empire's topographical surveying techniques struggle with. Up to 48-to-1 is doable for areas that don't have high background magic levels, while places like Praag can benefit from just blanketing the area with Waystones and then throwing in tributaries anyway until the walls stop bleeding.
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More wiki lore, this time the Old Town and the Newtown:

The Old Town (Starograd)
The area inside the original walls of the town is filled with the oldest buildings, packed haphazardly into tight, winding streets that all too often lead nowhere. Due to the protection of a second wall, the Old Town was spared the true horror that has consumed Novygrad but still suffered destruction and bears the marks of Chaos. Rebuilding is slow but constant; shiny new houses mingle with those from centuries ago—modern design is found next to the thatched roofs of the Roppsmenn ghetto. Once, these streets housed Praag's craftsmen, but as the city expanded, such things moved south, and the traders here turned to more exotic goods. Here, you will find the sellers of proscribed books, magic ingredients, and foreign wonders. Here, too, are the more exotic bordellos, the more specific drug dens, and the more presentable victims of mutation and madness. In the tiny street-corner cafes, men of the Old Town sing songs from better days, drink strange Cathayan beverages, and wait for the taint to kill them.
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Newtown (Novygrad)
The area immediately surrounding the Old Town to the north and east has been known as Newtown since it was constructed eight centuries ago. Its closeness to the north gate meant that its narrow, densely housed streets were the first and hardest hit of the entire city, and no rebuilding can reclaim it. Only the poorest of the poor live in these streets, for the sickness kills too quickly, and the Sunworms and Chaos Slime get the rest. The drains are scabrous sores that ooze stinking liquids, and the sickly air chokes with insects spawned endlessly from the piles of mutated corpses. The wind whispers murderous thoughts, and the muddy streets are full of deadly quicksand. The law will not follow criminals here, but only the desperate or the most perverse stay long. Cultists and rebels can meet safely amongst the ruined streets, but they too leave quickly lest the price is too high—the streets could shift, and they might never find their way out. Occasionally, controlled fires and demolitions are carried out in the quarter, but the taint remains, and most residents of Praag have accepted it.
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Sunworms are giant mutant maggots that absorb sunlight and then shoot it out, and are usually only found in Khemri and the Chaos Wastes. Chaos Slimes are what they sound like, but they seem to have some sort of corpse possessing ability as well? It's unclear from the references I can see.
 
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town

Kicking the hive as early as possible and with forewarning is beneficial in its own right. We very much want this fight.
 
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