- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Orochimaru conducts a seminar on the topics, and Hazou learning. The end goal is to get Sannin-rank stunts for those stats, so however the QMs model it?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Yes.
- Location
- United States
@faflec @Sir Stompy
We should prioritize obtaining S-Rank ninjutsu.
We don't need free XP. We already have a massive XP income from FOOM, and spending this deal on that would be a colossal waste. We also don't need a giant pile of seals. We already have that from Jiraiya, and we won't get a new one in time to make a difference.
This is going to be our only chance of getting any Sannin-level techniques for a long, long time. We can obtain nearly everything else elsewhere, but if we want to get the truly amazing ninjutsu — which according to @Paperclipped is going to be way stronger than anything paper sealing can create — this may be the only chance in the entire quest.
I'd also recommend everyone take a look at what options Paperclipped and EagleJarl suggested in discord.
We should prioritize obtaining S-Rank ninjutsu.
We don't need free XP. We already have a massive XP income from FOOM, and spending this deal on that would be a colossal waste. We also don't need a giant pile of seals. We already have that from Jiraiya, and we won't get a new one in time to make a difference.
This is going to be our only chance of getting any Sannin-level techniques for a long, long time. We can obtain nearly everything else elsewhere, but if we want to get the truly amazing ninjutsu — which according to @Paperclipped is going to be way stronger than anything paper sealing can create — this may be the only chance in the entire quest.
I'd also recommend everyone take a look at what options Paperclipped and EagleJarl suggested in discord.
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
So I kinda hate to suggest that, but maybe we should talk to Mari about the missing-nin plan next update, instead of directly going to Oro? Primarily, because I think we should use the lithosealing trade deal to get some tools that'd help us actually survive the go-missing plan, and Mari would provide invaluable in-universe perspective.
Failing that...
Add asking about Hidan's blood-tracking specifically, and potential ways to counter it. IIRC, Oro at BotG had used some poison that was able to bypass Hidan's thing, and he'd had to evade Akatsuki's pursuit as well. He may have a countermeasure.
For that matter, ask specifically about Akatsuki's tracking abilities in general, and ways to foil them. (I don't think a generic "dossiers on Akatsuki & countermeasures" is going to get us all information Oro has about tracking-related stuff specifically. And if we're not planning to assassinate them, that information is what we actually need for survival.)
He'd assembled a bunch of people who are unhinged by this setting's standards, carried out a series of attacks on the major nations of the world to seize their most powerful weapons, then attempted to execute some sort of global world-altering ritual likely intended to permanently change the nature of humanity, almost surely without giving any individual human the ability to opt out.
As this was happening, he'd continually made the choice to allow Hidan to roam free massacring innocents en masse, and he'd likely allowed all the others to stick to their essie habits as well. And then he'd gone out of his way to resurrect them, including Hidan. Just to ensure you're not under any illusion that he'd allowed them to indulge in their quirks as a necessary evil to keep them under control ultimately in service to the greater good. (If that were so, he would've breathed a sigh of relief when they died.)
Like, from my point of view, people evaluating Pain and concluding something positive keep making the same mistake, which is something like... Taking "a mass-murder-enabling psychopath trying to re-carve the world in his image with no regard for other people" as a reasonable and expected baseline. And then people take various nice-sounding things we keep hearing about Pain, like that he'd wanted to save the world or what an idealist he was, and make positive updates relative to this baseline, and so end up concluding he's unusually cool and likely a force for good in the world.
But, uh. No. The baseline model of what kind of person Pain is, is really bad. And that baseline is moved in the positive direction by the nice-sounding things, yes, but only barely.
When I weight everything I know about Pain, I find that I don't trust him with the fate of the world at all.
Failing that...
Add asking for some sort of advanced camouflage jutsu or seal, that allows to stay camouflaged when moving. Ideally, AoE invisibility. Everyone has Skywalkers now, villages likely have sentries stationed above clouds everywhere (all the majors at least have surely developed their variants of Skytowers by now), which means we can't keep relying on "stay above the clouds" for security.
Add asking about Hidan's blood-tracking specifically, and potential ways to counter it. IIRC, Oro at BotG had used some poison that was able to bypass Hidan's thing, and he'd had to evade Akatsuki's pursuit as well. He may have a countermeasure.
For that matter, ask specifically about Akatsuki's tracking abilities in general, and ways to foil them. (I don't think a generic "dossiers on Akatsuki & countermeasures" is going to get us all information Oro has about tracking-related stuff specifically. And if we're not planning to assassinate them, that information is what we actually need for survival.)
Does everything we know about Pain actually suggest that?
He'd assembled a bunch of people who are unhinged by this setting's standards, carried out a series of attacks on the major nations of the world to seize their most powerful weapons, then attempted to execute some sort of global world-altering ritual likely intended to permanently change the nature of humanity, almost surely without giving any individual human the ability to opt out.
As this was happening, he'd continually made the choice to allow Hidan to roam free massacring innocents en masse, and he'd likely allowed all the others to stick to their essie habits as well. And then he'd gone out of his way to resurrect them, including Hidan. Just to ensure you're not under any illusion that he'd allowed them to indulge in their quirks as a necessary evil to keep them under control ultimately in service to the greater good. (If that were so, he would've breathed a sigh of relief when they died.)
Like, from my point of view, people evaluating Pain and concluding something positive keep making the same mistake, which is something like... Taking "a mass-murder-enabling psychopath trying to re-carve the world in his image with no regard for other people" as a reasonable and expected baseline. And then people take various nice-sounding things we keep hearing about Pain, like that he'd wanted to save the world or what an idealist he was, and make positive updates relative to this baseline, and so end up concluding he's unusually cool and likely a force for good in the world.
But, uh. No. The baseline model of what kind of person Pain is, is really bad. And that baseline is moved in the positive direction by the nice-sounding things, yes, but only barely.
When I weight everything I know about Pain, I find that I don't trust him with the fate of the world at all.
We can keep all of that going by proceeding with my plan to liquidate the clan and pass all of its assets to the Nara, in exchange for the Nara maintaining same levels of comfort for our people + continuing our humanitarian projects. Notable: the Nara have their own humanitarian-project program courtesy of Kei, so it won't even be much organizational re-work, from their perspective. Can just fold it in.
Mm, for fairness' sake, I don't really trust Sakura's assessment of AMITY's stability. The only one I trust on that is Ami, since she conceived it and it's only by her efforts that anyone else really bought into it. I don't know whether they're still underestimating the idea, as Ami kept saying near-everyone does, or whether they're overestimating it now that Ami isn't there to micromanage it, but I think the one thing we can safely conclude about that the number is that it's wrong, one way or another. It's informative inasmuch as "this is what an in-universe political analyst thinks", but it should only be treated as an input into our own evaluations; we can't defer that evaluation wholesale.
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And spend what xp on it?
We have a lot of potentially Essie assets(Primordial sealing, summoning scrolls, PEA). But we haven't even managed to invest heavily in these, or basic skills like Athletics.
And most Jutsu is only useful if your skill in it is high enough to be vaguely level-appropriate.
What Hazou needs to personally play at the Essie level isn't chunin-level skill in two more really good jutsu, it's 4 years of training&research to grow into the powers we currently have.
While I am very cautious of training with Oro, or making asks that take a lot of his time...
We need the xp to advance the OP tricks we have, not get 2 more tricks to divide our attention across.
- Location
- Yes.
Additions to "what we want" made.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Worth noting that the quoted section was actually Shikamaru and Kei's assessment, not Sakura's. Do with that what you will
Could get them for Kei, Mari, Yuno etc. Something for Hazou is probably not wise at this point yeah.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can we try to specify that they can't require biosealing or bioseals?
- Location
- Yes.
Does making a "No bioseals/biosealing in rewards." before everything else work?
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sure. I'd be explicit that we want to optimize that ask hard with our advisors as it might annoy Orochimaru.
- Location
- Yes.
Changed my mind and put it into the "General" section; it felt better that way.
- Location
- Yes.
Sorry for posting an update so soon, but I added Sir Stompy's point on differently-sized explosive runes, and a word count. Will try to shrink it down to <300 later.
- Location
- how about no
As far as input goes it is a pretty damning critique of AMITY's future as a peace keeping institution. Sakura's and Shikamaru's notes should be a major factor in our future decisions since we, as the hivemind, are not privy to all of the nuances of living in ninja culture.
Why are we doing this? There is no wording that explicitly says we hand this over to Orochimaru only and writing anything down about runes scares me as it is our best hope for creating an Akatsuki-defeating invention(s).
A line about burning/destroying the manuscript afterwards if Oro does not want it would help. I'd prefer if we skipped writing anything about runes down at all though. If Oro cannot retain the information with a demonstration and a lecture that is his problem not ours.
My plan literally asks for S-Rank ninjutsu. Do you have something more specific in mind?
Can we not do this? This additional cycles/substrate on a literal useless rune. Even storage runes are probably useless for anything but veterancy. This takes at least 8 days since we have 5 day cycles, and this is specifying a second research cycle. Plus shaping and infusing the rune takes 16 hours.
And If we're doing research at all we should probably have a second track doing sealing research to maximize gains with SSA, which is part of why I don't want to bother with it. Or even just prep days to gather info for projects.
I just really don't like the sealing section. I don't feel it's particularly grounded.
Vote for my plan, it doesn't do this.
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Sharing clan secrets isn't illegal if the clan who owns said secrets agrees to it. We could propose to share chakdar and PMYF with the tower and with any clans who are willing to likewise share the seals that they contributed to Sasori's demands. It would be giving up the seals clan secret status, but "if our enemies our going to have these, better that our allies *also* do".
However, the QMs presumably don't want to design a bunch more seals that we won't even research most of.
I'm increasingly thinking we shouldn't commit to any strategic choices re: necromancy race until we have a better idea what runes can do; if I understand correctly doing some prep days on some possibilities shouldn't be too far in the future in any case.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This seems like an IN opsec risk, and the request would immediately get Orochimaru's hackles raised.
I also suggest it was a plant by EJ to cause maximum chaos. He, himself, warned that he was not "recommending" a course of action when he made that list. EJ was having fun playing the part of the genie.
It is a high risk, high reward endeavor, but I would also like to raise a point: we still haven't gotten Jiraiya's seals. Even if we win, and this happens, when will we actually "get" the seals?
(E: not hate or salt to QMs, of course. Seals are high spoon work, and rarely does the playerbase research them, making the effort feel pointless. Full sympathies, big understanding, mega hugs. Very drained, and textual mediums bleach tone further.)
I would like to request that this be removed.
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Seems promising, but has a lot of moving parts.
Pain in particular seems to have S-rank Presence; he's the man who persuaded Deidara and Hidan to support a plan to create world peace.
Yeah, I think most of what I'm after here is preserving our ability to pursue moonshots like those at all (without being murdered for it).
So far, we've invested so heavily in sealing and earthshaping that we haven't even managed to spare the XP for mid-Chūnin combat stats. We also need to raise PS, and maybe deception. And while we don't strictly need technique hacking and biosealing we're consistently tempted, so that's another 1-3 research skills right there. As FOOM picks up further, this'll be less of a problem, but in the short- to medium-term I don't feel like we can afford to invest heavily in Jutsu unless they solve some of those problems that we were going to be spending XP on anyway.
Removed. Also added asking for information on the Forbidden Dungeon on Crimson State Island.