- Location
- The Hub
Do we have any others? Cos if we do my Blackadder reference is gonna fall flat.
DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest
- Thread starter Made in Heaven
- Start date
- Crossover
It's not, we put them on the space program that turn, something that couldn't crit fail
Jumba's mess up didn't tank our public PR, our government PR, our income, and risk tanking another character's progress
The issue is that LOVEMUFFIN doesn't want to do anything that will help us. They groaned about everything we had them do. The only option that they will do and stay happy is Mad Science. And they're essentially guaranteed to critfail it.
Jumba is fine with doing !!SCIENCE!! that will help.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I'd like to point out that it is their own undoing. It's not like they effectively communicated what projects they DO like. Their egos are so fragile and their psyches so warped that everything people tried to put them on to make them feel important backfired because they are just THAT bad. Pretty much the only thing the plan-makers SHOULD have seen coming that Lovemuffin wouldn't like is whoever's idea it was to have them negotiate a company purchase for some reason. That was the only obvious one, since everything else has been them acting needlessly obtuse and actively resisting any attempt to improve them.
That said, I do feel it is worth stating that KidFromPallet did make a good point in stating that their usefulness could be extended if the Council actually does allow for stacking stats. That's not enough for me, but it is a fair and very important point if your only reason for voting against them is that you feel their usefulness has run dry against too-high DCs.
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- Location
- Germany
We can still be a villain even now, we simply have to factor in our "public face" now...or do you think that even David "I am a philanthropic socialite and financier of the Arts" Xanatos is all that squeaky clean off-camera? I don´t think so.
Gimme a good target for the "Commit Supervillainy" option and I will definitely *consider it*, pal...I am simply thinking of the bigger picture past "being EVIL for its own sake"
- Location
- Couch
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm resistant to arresting LOVEMUFFIN if only because I feel like we're missing some angle or would be missing out on something important character wise. I can't articulate this feeling though. I'll vote against arresting LOVEMUFFIN, but I highly doubt at this point that it's going to stop the current flow of the vote.
[X] Let LOVEMUFFIN go
[X] Let LOVEMUFFIN go
Stratagemini
Totally a Fire Ferret.
- Location
- Central Park
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
You're not voting for what you think you are.
You are voting to KEEP Lovemuffin.
Tumach
Majestic hat wearer
- Location
- a valid location
Hooo-boy. This is a tough one. I know a lot of you don't see it that way, but I do.
On the one hand, they have a point. This is what they understand Mad Science to mean, and what Doof understood it to mean as well. We did tell them to do this, even if we didn't quite realize what we were asking for. Arresting them for it just plain doesn't sit well with me.
On the other hand, this is not acceptable. We can't just let this kind of thing go on. Yes, this was what we did, but we moved on from that. We did take over the Tri-state Area (except that one part of Colorado), and now we just can't keep playing the old game anymore. This kind of thing can't go on.
Now, maybe we can divert Lovemuffin into more useful outlets for this kind of thing, now that we actually know what they want to do. And despite what their detractors say, they are a useful hero unit. Sure, their stats are terrible, but they are a FREE ACTION. There's only so much we can do with it, but still. And we may be able to improve on them now that we actually have a handle on how they work. But...
There's going to be a cost from using them. Public opinion, opinion of other kings (including the US government), their opinion, opinion of our other hero units, monetary, action economy, it'll depend what we ask them to do, but I don't think there's really a scenario where we don't take some kind of hit from having Lovemuffin do something. That's... a problem. And as much as I do think that they are useful, I'm not sure they're useful enough to be worth that.
However, while that might be a decent reason to let them go more or less peacefully, that's not an option here. I feel a bit irritated that we can't to write ins, but I'm also having difficulty disputing the argument that any attempt to keep Lovemuffin but still have them face consequences for this will simply be worse than either of the given options. So, it's either arrest them, or pardon them.
Arresting them for doing what we told them to is not a good option. It sets a dangerous precedent that could very well come back to bite us. It will also ensure that Lovemuffin are our sworn enemies, and not in a good way (yes, that sounds weird, but this is Doofenshmirtz). On the other hand, if we succeed, we will have that under control, at least for now. If we don't... well, I expect there will be major problems. Worse, this is a group, so it's quite possible to only partially succeed. We'll also loose a valuable free action. Still, we won't have to waste time firing them in the future, so there's that.
Letting them go is also not a good option. It also sets a dangerous precedent, and one that almost certainly will come back to bite us. We'll keep Lovemuffin, but at the expense of having to deal with Lovemuffin, and major setbacks with OWCA. There's a decent chance that this will make public opinion of us worse (or maybe just not improve it), too.
Ultimately, this is kind of a character crossroads for Doof. If we arrest them, we're becoming more responsible, and more hardnosed. If we let them go, we stay irrisponsible and ...forgiving? Not really the word I want, but hopefully it gets the point across.
I think that Doof is going to have to re-evaluate just what Mad Science means to him.
[X] Attempt to arrest LOVEMUFFIN
EDIT: on further consideration, we are Doofenshmirtz, and they did wreck our city, and Doof is nothing if not petty. A pettiness that he often expressed on Lovemuffin (the "Destroy Rodney's Inator Inator" comes to mind)
On the one hand, they have a point. This is what they understand Mad Science to mean, and what Doof understood it to mean as well. We did tell them to do this, even if we didn't quite realize what we were asking for. Arresting them for it just plain doesn't sit well with me.
On the other hand, this is not acceptable. We can't just let this kind of thing go on. Yes, this was what we did, but we moved on from that. We did take over the Tri-state Area (except that one part of Colorado), and now we just can't keep playing the old game anymore. This kind of thing can't go on.
Now, maybe we can divert Lovemuffin into more useful outlets for this kind of thing, now that we actually know what they want to do. And despite what their detractors say, they are a useful hero unit. Sure, their stats are terrible, but they are a FREE ACTION. There's only so much we can do with it, but still. And we may be able to improve on them now that we actually have a handle on how they work. But...
There's going to be a cost from using them. Public opinion, opinion of other kings (including the US government), their opinion, opinion of our other hero units, monetary, action economy, it'll depend what we ask them to do, but I don't think there's really a scenario where we don't take some kind of hit from having Lovemuffin do something. That's... a problem. And as much as I do think that they are useful, I'm not sure they're useful enough to be worth that.
However, while that might be a decent reason to let them go more or less peacefully, that's not an option here. I feel a bit irritated that we can't to write ins, but I'm also having difficulty disputing the argument that any attempt to keep Lovemuffin but still have them face consequences for this will simply be worse than either of the given options. So, it's either arrest them, or pardon them.
Arresting them for doing what we told them to is not a good option. It sets a dangerous precedent that could very well come back to bite us. It will also ensure that Lovemuffin are our sworn enemies, and not in a good way (yes, that sounds weird, but this is Doofenshmirtz). On the other hand, if we succeed, we will have that under control, at least for now. If we don't... well, I expect there will be major problems. Worse, this is a group, so it's quite possible to only partially succeed. We'll also loose a valuable free action. Still, we won't have to waste time firing them in the future, so there's that.
Letting them go is also not a good option. It also sets a dangerous precedent, and one that almost certainly will come back to bite us. We'll keep Lovemuffin, but at the expense of having to deal with Lovemuffin, and major setbacks with OWCA. There's a decent chance that this will make public opinion of us worse (or maybe just not improve it), too.
Ultimately, this is kind of a character crossroads for Doof. If we arrest them, we're becoming more responsible, and more hardnosed. If we let them go, we stay irrisponsible and ...forgiving? Not really the word I want, but hopefully it gets the point across.
I think that Doof is going to have to re-evaluate just what Mad Science means to him.
[X] Attempt to arrest LOVEMUFFIN
EDIT: on further consideration, we are Doofenshmirtz, and they did wreck our city, and Doof is nothing if not petty. A pettiness that he often expressed on Lovemuffin (the "Destroy Rodney's Inator Inator" comes to mind)
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He knows, Pallet was expressing sadness at the fact that the thread would most likely overwhelmingly vote to toss em' in the slammer.
- Location
- United States
I'm just going to ignore all of the bad things happening in Doofquest at the moment and suggest some inators.
Goldilocks-inator (Neutral): Goldilocks was really concerned with things being just right.This inator will make getting things just right matter. Next turn, all national actions everywhere that would critically succeed instead barely succeed. All national actions that would barely succeed instead critically succeed.
Science-of-magic-inator (Good): You're a scientist! You can figure this magic stuff out. It'll make logical sense or you'll zap it with this inator and make it make sense. Next turn, all of your occult national actions use the learning stat instead of occult.
Magic-of-science-inator (Bad): This magic stuff is pretty neat! Maybe you can combine it with your beloved science? This inator will do just that. Next turn, all of your learning national actions use the occult stat instead of learning.
Goldilocks-inator (Neutral): Goldilocks was really concerned with things being just right.This inator will make getting things just right matter. Next turn, all national actions everywhere that would critically succeed instead barely succeed. All national actions that would barely succeed instead critically succeed.
Science-of-magic-inator (Good): You're a scientist! You can figure this magic stuff out. It'll make logical sense or you'll zap it with this inator and make it make sense. Next turn, all of your occult national actions use the learning stat instead of occult.
Magic-of-science-inator (Bad): This magic stuff is pretty neat! Maybe you can combine it with your beloved science? This inator will do just that. Next turn, all of your learning national actions use the occult stat instead of learning.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
The point I'm making is that we're not a "villain with good publicity" anymore, we're pretty much just an out and out good guy. Sure, we can still be a villain, but from the past voting patterns of the thread, it is getting increasingly unlikely that we'll actually vote to do that.
And we don't need a target for Commit Supervillainy. It's a flat 85 DC action to go out and cause some mischief, like stealing whatever 'rare and highly guarded' thing pops up on the in-setting version of wikipedia. I remember this because there was a push to do it on the Probability-Inator turn, when we could guarantee a crit to reduce any downsides as much as possible, and people still wouldn't go for it because they were afraid our public opinion would drop and our good aligned Hero Units would hate us.
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Stratagemini
Totally a Fire Ferret.
- Location
- Central Park
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Well, my bad. Didn't read that way to me. Ah well. Not gonna edit that post. Having the vote text posted could be helpful for other people. I definitely made that mistake in thinking "Let them go" meant "fire them."
- Location
- Germany
Something we should have done a few turns ago already imho.
That turn is a special case, considering just how volatile it was.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
No, not really. Again, the Inator would have guaranteed us critically succeeding the action. It was impossible for us to crit fail except on a 1, which would be precisely as bad as it would be in a normal turn. There was literally no extra risk added by the Inator, and a lot of added benefit, in that it made a crit guaranteed instead of a chance. If acting like a villain is too risky when we can guarantee the best result possible, then we're never going to actually be a villain.
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] Attempt to arrest LOVEMUFFIN
Lord Ultimus
Beautiful...
- Location
- Undisclosed Warehouse
[X] Let LOVEMUFFIN go
Just being contrary.
Just being contrary.
- Location
- Minnesota
[X] Attempt to arrest LOVEMUFFIN
I mean, this is about the super serum, right?
We haven't really seen the consequences of that fully play out, so I hardly think it's fair to say it didn't affect any of those things.
And I'm not gonna bother arguing about Love Muffin anymore, it's clear that the thread has a hateboner for them. Seen so many posts about how keeping them will mean blowing everything we've built to the ground, with little in the way of the possible consequences of getting rid of them.
Also, in the flavor text of the vote Doof starts to refer to them as friends, and really they are some of the only people that have been with him from the start.
But you do you people.
Not gonna hesitate to gloat if y'all end up regretting it through.
[X] Let LOVEMUFFIN go
- Location
- Germany
In that case, some other option simply was more tempting.
Honestly, makes me curious what we could have achieved there...but gambling with "maybes" is a fruitless endeavour anyway.