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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[x] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
[x] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [x] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
This one, at least, is an easy call to me. We make the announcement at the Rhunkalbrogg. Question is, can we get Part 3b done by then?

@soulcake, will the Rhunkalbrogg be at the beginning or the end of turn 41?






So, here's the bit that's throwing me for a loop. It's not just skill that Snorri's excluding by, it's beliefs, and that's the bit that's super-dangerous to me. Snorri teaching only those who agree with him philosophically is kind of setting himself up as the head of a schism movement.

I think that the least dangerous option might actually be to go lax. Giving the rune to anyone who wants it says we're not trying to control what Runesmiths do with it. Conservatives are free to follow the rule of pride to the letter, only make Forged Limbs for the odd King now and then, etc.

But there's a really dangerous idea that's bubbling around in my head, that won't go away.

What if we use the cred we get as Chainmaker at the Rhunkalbrogg, to put a motion on the agenda?

That the Rune of Forged Limb and related prosthetic runes are so uniquely valuable to the Karaz Ankor that they should be considered an exception to the Rule of Pride.
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You know, that's actually a really interesting way of stating the problem and it got me to thinking:

What if this is really more about how fundamental Snorri believes the Rune of Forged Limb to be? Meaning, does he believe that it ought to be the kind of rune that is a highly specialized form of knowledge or does he believe that it ought to be the kind of rune that everyone ought to know as a part of the basic craft.
 
[x] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
[x] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [x] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.
 
[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.
 
[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.
 
soulcake said:
I won't lie to you guys, I'm seriously considering whether these votes are good for the long term health of the thread and whether I just let Snorri take over these decisions. Ach, a problem of my own doing.
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It might be a good idea. While it could be bad in the early stages of a quest, this quest has gone on for long enough to flesh out the character and his methodology enough for some of his decisions to be extrapolated by you.

Admittedly, I have noticed that the current events in the real world have increased my anxiety, even when it cones to the likes of quest votes and their results, so I might be biased.

That said, might as well vote. Let's hope nothing explodes, I guess?

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.
 
[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.
 
Ekzentric Lohner said:
We've been told that there are runes considered so useful that knowledge of how to make them is made available to all members in good standing. That's not the same thing as "copying another's work".
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Eh, it means nobody's gonna be mad if you use a 'generic' rune of light in the same 'generic' way. And if you'll remember from earlier apprentice teachings, Runes of Light en masse do, in fact, skirt the Rule of Pride in ways conservatives grumble about.
 
Neptune said:
So they're the ones that are most likely to raise a fuss about any abuse about potential factional leanings, as well as the ones least likely to actually make limbs so paradoxially the safest to give it too if you're concerned about Valaya/Thungi cult issues, and yet they're likely the ones to be snubbed.
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They're the worst to give it to if you're concerned about inter-Cult issues, because they're the ones who will refuse when a Valayan asks them to help.

You are correct about the factional leanings, though.
 
[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.

tryingtobewitty said:
They're the worst to give it to if you're concerned about inter-Cult issues, because they're the ones who will refuse when a Valayan asks them to help.

You are correct about the factional leanings, though.
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I actually disagree with this, as I feel their stated and expressed opinions are going to be known given the status that Master Runesmiths have in society, so in that regard it'll be wasting effort trying to change someones views that are centuries old.

It's likely going to be the ones that aren't so hidebound that are pressured and torn between what to do.
 
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[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.
 
I'm starting to think the better option if we could is bring up both the chain and limbs at the conclave and just try to force it through with the prestige from the former covering the latter. Right like Snorri sees that people want to learn th forged limb, goes oh fuck political mess incoming, I'll bring it up in the big conclave if I can sort of thing.
 
[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.
 
[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

Radical or conservative does not matter in this choice. You have proven yourself worthy of the title Master Runesmith, thus you are worthy of being taught the Rune as you will be able to handle it responsible. This will spread the knowledgde as far as possibel. Thus till the Rhunkalbrogg any problems/schisms will come to light to be discussed then.

The much prophesied Runesmiths/Valayans problem will probably become known. If bad enough I would think Thugni and Valaya could intervene and solve it. We may get some bad rep for starting it but I think Snorri can easily weather that storm.
 
[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.
[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.
 
[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

Staying out of the teaching vote. I don't feel like I have any clear idea what option will have what results.

Silver719 said:
So put it to a vote. At the Rhunkalbrogg. Where Thungni will back up the integrity of the vote.
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LaggPlaguedDuke said:
I'm starting to think the better option if we could is bring up both the chain and limbs at the conclave and just try to force it through with the prestige from the former covering the latter. Right like Snorri sees that people want to learn th forged limb, goes oh fuck political mess incoming, I'll bring it up in the big conclave if I can sort of thing.
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The problem is that soulcake has made clear that on such a decision, only Thungni's vote matters on this one, and he is by no means guaranteed to be there. Alric Thungnisson usually runs them.

Edit: Actually, you know what, I'm just going to do this.

[X] [Masters]: I'd prefer Soulcake decide this one based on Snorri's character.
 
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Neptune said:
There's also the fact that this is an interactive quest - do people actually want it to be interactive and have meaningful decisions or not?
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Sure. I choose to present the Rune of Forged Limb at the Rhunkalbrogg and seek official consensus on teaching everyone willing to learn, including at the Rhunkalbrogg.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
So just a thing for you to consider, what do you think breaking a religious taboo does to a person mentally, now consider that Dwarves have no real way of letting go of shame, then factor in that Alric was presumably the only Runesmith in the Karaz-ankor at the time that could forge anything like the Runefangs, Do you reckon that his madness just might be because of the shame of having to do so as the only person capable of fulfilling the burden of repaying the empire and having to do so in a timely fashion as otherwise all the intended recipients of the owed debt will be dead might possibly have been what caused him mental issues?

Otherwise the explanation is that working on master runes is inherently damaging to the sanity of Runesmiths, which assumes facts not evidenced any where in both the quest or GW cannon, also frankly a century of total social isolation whilst trying to deal with the levels of shame he presumably felt would crack literally any psyche. The simplest explanation is not the one you propose.
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You have one fatal flaw in your reasoning the slayer oath had already existed for over a thousand years before the runefangs were created if he felt his shame was so great as to drive him mad he would have taken the oath not spent the rest of his days forging the rune of ages.

The explanation that excessively repeating the same master rune is inherently damaging to the psyche does not contradict anything we've seen here or in GW canon most Dwarfs stick to the rule and those who do break it don't break it excessively as Alaric did to the best of my knowledge the most we've ever seen someone else flaunt it was by using a master rune three times in a century.

In addition to that runesmiths are noted as spending excessive periods of time locked up in their workshops (take Yorri as an example that man spent how long out in the wilderness waiting for Snorri two centuries IIRC) and they're not even noted as the worst offenders with regards to this a century spent forging runed weapons normally almost certainly wouldn't have driven Alaric mad yet he was noted as explicitly having become paranoid and obsessive after forging the rune fangs that pretty much leaves us with the only conclusion that something about repeating the same master rune for a century straight is bad for your mental health.
065tdsa said:
You do realize a century is ten turns, right? Snorri's been told off by Moira (pretty much a dwarven doctor) after 1 turn of doing it. If he tried to do 10 turns I'm pretty sure she'd break in, knock him out and haul him to the temple before he was halfway done.
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Yes, I realize that, and Snorri himself doesn't consider himself a hermit like many of his peers are plus as I pointed out above Yorri spent like two centuries isolated in the wilderness with only golems for company performing research.
 
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[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Stringent: Teach those most alike with your own methodology in how to use and spread this Rune. 8 Of the two dozen will be taught.
 
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