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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Nah, if we do Valayas runes it should be before we start the commission as they may give us some new defensive Rune or improve the ones we have.
I could see it giving Snorri marginal improvements in the Master Rune of Valaya, which the Valkyrie Guard might use on armor. We know they put the Ancestor Rune on weapons.

But I doubt that the other Runes on her Basket will be of use. For a similar reason the Rune of Translation won't ever be put on armor.
 
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[X] Plan Chain for Runesmiths

[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about House Dawnseeker
[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about the Everqueen
[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about Elf History

We only have 13 turns till the Ancestors go so for me that's the deadline and gives me a limitation of what I want done before then, and the current dominant plan of Valaya >> Grave Wardens >> potentially another commission just doesn't interest me enough. Grave Warden's armor on it's own takes 2 turns off that deadline with others being available to do equally as well as Snorri given they specialize in armor runes and are experienced Runelord's in their own right.

The current "plan" as it stands with Rune 2B, then Valaya's basket, then Valaya's commission takes 4 turns out of that countdown, with 9 left.

Of that, I'd much rather get Eltharin (1 turn) and Akazit (2 turns) done as a priority, given it's a new and potentially revolutionary idea for the Dwarves that wasn't iterated off something the Ancestors did, and I'd prefer it done with enough time for them to experiment with it themselves if possible. Another 3 turns taken off, leaving 6.

At this point the decision needs to be made whether to try and push for T5 Gromril before the Ancestor's go, or perhaps go for understanding the Happening of Things rune Gazul showed us, going for the Bloodthirster Gronti, or likely pursuing any of the new options that actually unlocking Akazit gives or mixing and matching our various research options where we have AP available. There's a chance it includes Wardstones if we want to counter enemy scrying, which may be important if you want to keep what Snorri's working on a secret.

If you go for T5 then it quite honestly is likely to take most of the remaining turns. 1 turn for further understanding Master Rune of Purifcation given it's role in the making of it, 1 turn to take Runemetal Part 5 which if we're very lucky may result in a tiny sample when you combo the better understanding of the winds + alchemy + deep magic + Snorri's equipment and traits and them just synergying to fuck; ... maybe. It undoubtedly will need Runemetal P6 though, which'll take 2+ turns itself. You've likely got somewhere between 5 and 10 AP left over which isn't much. Then there's the thought that it'd a make narrative sense for T5 Gromril, the most Dwarven of metals, to require Runemetal Part 7 to completely finish and unlock production capability given there are 7 Ancestor Gods. So going for it all the way would be incredibly appealing at this stage and may give Thungi/Grungi/Smednir interactions given the respective roles their portfolios take in the creation of it. Either way I can't see there being much leeway in the AP if this is the goal, and even then may need further research boosts to accomplish.

The other approaches will similarly take up a lot of those turn timers, who knows just how long Gazul's rune chain could be given the description of the first action I'm not optimistic on it being a short chain given just the oomph and symbolism behind the word Fate.This would go wonderfully with Snorri's new magic knowledge, and in particular an understanding of the Winds of Heaven.

Then there's the Bloodthirster Gronti approach and getting that done before they go. 1 turn on Mind of Things, 1 turn on Movement of Things, 0.75 turns for researching Suneaters Brain, then any other research which pop out before we actually get to constructing the Gronti itself. That is likely to consume 5 turns just on it's own minimum.

While I may have preferences about which of the above ideas wins out, in general I just heavily prefer them all to spending 2 turns on grave Warden's Armor shortening our clock further. It's just not that interesting for me personally or as a narrative compared to the others, given the large build up and momentum each of those ideas will generate both within the story itself and OOC with the discussion of it with everyone else.
 
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I could see it giving Snorri marginal improvements in the Master Rune of Valaya, which the Valkyrie Guard might use on armor. We know they put the Ancestor Rune on weapons.

But I doubt that the other Runes on her Basket will be of use. For a similar reason the Rune of Translation won't ever be put on armor.
I don't know about that. From the option;
"On the basket that bears her Master Rune, Valaya or perhaps some other Runesmith put down two other Runes. You can make a guess as to their purpose, but aren't too sure. One bears a similarity to the Rune of Load-bearing, the other the Rune of Healing."

The Loadbearing one could increase a dwarfs ability to carry exceptionally large loads with ease or simply be a more specialized Rune of Might. But it'll probably be something more esoteric. Could be useful.

The Healing one could give the user the ability to heal others which adherents of Valaya would love.
 
I don't know about that. From the option;
"On the basket that bears her Master Rune, Valaya or perhaps some other Runesmith put down two other Runes. You can make a guess as to their purpose, but aren't too sure. One bears a similarity to the Rune of Load-bearing, the other the Rune of Healing."

The Loadbearing one could increase a dwarfs ability to carry exceptionally large loads with ease or simply be a more specialized Rune of Might. But it'll probably be something more esoteric. Could be useful.

The Healing one could give the user the ability to heal others which adherents of Valaya would love.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. That isn't the purpose of armor. In general, armor runes protect the user. There are a few exceptions, but these aren't that. The adherents of Valaya are certainly commissioning talismans and banners which do that stuff.

And Snorri knows the Rune of Load-bearing and Healing.
 
[X] Plan Chain for Runesmiths

[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about House Dawnseeker
[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about the Everqueen
[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about Elf History
 
I've said this before and I'll say it again. That isn't the purpose of armor. In general, armor runes protect the user. There are a few exceptions, but these aren't that. The adherents of Valaya are certainly commissioning talismans and banners which do that stuff.

And Snorri knows the Rune of Load-bearing and Healing.
Similarities to Load-Bearing and Healing does not mean they are improved versions of those two.
 
[X] Plan Chain for Runesmiths

[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about House Dawnseeker
[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about the Everqueen
[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about Elf History
 
[X] Plan Don't Ignore the Grave
[x] [Talk]: Knowledge about the Everqueen
[x] [Talk]: Knowledge about House Dawnseeker
[x] [Talk]: Knowledge about Elf History
 
Similarities to Load-Bearing and Healing does not mean they are improved versions of those two.
Of course not, they are different Runes. But based on the evidence so far, there is absolutely no reason to think they will be applicable on armor. Their purpose is to be used on bread baskets and items similar to that.

Probably stuff like storage. The Rune of Healing probably makes food/brews/ect more, healey?
 
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Of course not, they are different Runes. But based on the evidence so far, there is absolutely no reason to think they will be applicable on armor. Their purpose is to be used on bread baskets and items similar to that.

Probably stuff like storage. The Rune of Healing probably makes food/brews/ect more, healey?
What evidence? All we know is that they share similarities to the stated runes. The Rune of Healing could be a normal Rune of Regeneration, a fantastic rune for armor. The loadbearing one could be a ton of things, durability, stamina, strength, one that gives mental defenses.

And you'll have to excuse me if I think the Runes on something Valaya herself gave us are a bit more than something so mundane.
 
I really think we should consider dropping Valaya's basket, moving Her Cult's commission forwards a turn, and doing the Wardstone research in turn 40 ahead of the Cult of Gazul's commission. That was there won't be four straight turns of simple commissions, and we'll have the Wardstone runes available for the Gazulite commission, which will probably be more valuable for that than Valaya's basket's runes will be for Her Cult's commission.

That's an interesting idea, I'd back it. Particularly since my guess is that the Valaya's basket runes are likely to be home&health based, and thus maybe not the best for armour.

The warpstone Runes, which hide from and protect against magic? Gazulite armour cries out to have those.
 
What evidence? All we know is that they share similarities to the stated runes. The Rune of Healing could be a normal Rune of Regeneration, a fantastic rune for armor. The loadbearing one could be a ton of things, durability, stamina, strength, one that gives mental defenses.

And you'll have to excuse me if I think the Runes on something Valaya herself gave us are a bit more than something so mundane.
Snorri would almost certainly know the Rune of Regeneration if it exists.

It could be and it most likely isn't because those are useless on a basket.

It is not mundane. The runes are there to serve its purpose as a basket. I also object to the idea that an Ancestor would not gvive something which is mundane. Gazul's Lamp is.
 
That's an interesting idea, I'd back it. Particularly since my guess is that the Valaya's basket runes are likely to be home&health based, and thus maybe not the best for armour.

The warpstone Runes, which hide from and protect against magic? Gazulite armour cries out to have those.
We could just do the Wardstones next turn instead of the Basket runes. I'd be fine with that as a anti-scrying rune would be pretty huge for Gazul warriors.
 
Is there any chance the wardstones would be done in time to contribute to the new hold? I figure they would definitely appreciate it.
soulcake already commented, but I have no doubt that Igna is going to be poking them, if she hasn't finished already. They are the last creation of her Clan's Runesmiths after all. The only reason why she wouldn't have is if she had a bunch of Commissions due right before work on Grom begun. If she determines them to be useful in static defenses, she'll probably put em' up all over.
 
[X] Plan Don't Ignore the Grave
[x] [Talk]: Knowledge about the Everqueen
[x] [Talk]: Knowledge about House Dawnseeker
[x] [Talk]: Knowledge about Elf History

too be honest both plans sound fine to me but i like this one just a bit more.
 
Next turn There will probably be three plans, Valya's runes, Eltharin, and wardstones.
valya's -4 actions
Eltharin -3 actions +1 free
Wardstones +1 free

The reason why I said three plans Is im seeing people wanting the other research instead of valya's. Out of the three I aprove of the thinking of wardstone and valaya's the most, since both would help with the commisions. Valya's from the runes for the armor, wardstones to deny chaos info on them. Out of the two options im leaning towards Valya's, because chaos will learn about the armors once they are out of our workshop anyways if they could learn about it within it without those runes.
 
Next turn There will probably be three plans, Valya's runes, Eltharin, and wardstones.
valya's -4 actions
Eltharin -3 actions +1 free
Wardstones +1 free

The reason why I said three plans Is im seeing people wanting the other research instead of valya's. Out of the three I aprove of the thinking of wardstone and valaya's the most, since both would help with the commisions. Valya's from the runes for the armor, wardstones to deny chaos info on them. Out of the two options im leaning towards Valya's, because chaos will learn about the armors once they are out of our workshop anyways if they could learn about it within it without those runes.
Uh, the point of researching the wardstones is to understand the runes on it so as to replicate its anti-scrying ability the apply that rune to the Gazulites armor so they can go about their hunting of Hashut cultists unseen. Not hide the fact that we're making them armor.
 
[X] Plan Don't Ignore the Grave

[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about Avelorn
[X] [Talk]: Knowledge about the Everqueen
[x] [Talk]: Knowledge about House Dawnseeker
 
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