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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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ninjafish said:
No, he still fights the likes of Ariel and Orion and doesn't immediately fucking die. So that immediately at least an order of magnitude beyond us at out absolute best.

This is hubris.

Give it up.
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He don't tho.

He throws armies of beastmen at Orion and Ariel and lasts about as long as it takes for Orion to get in melee range before going out like a bitch.

The first time he fought Ariel she literally one-shot him while laughing at how she got all worked up tracking him down, only to find that he was (seemingly) just a beastman.

Araloth took him down in single-combat once, and while we aren't Araloth, that isn't a completely insurmountable gap, and we do have Asarnil and Deathfang, who are overall better.

Martially speaking, Morghur isn't that big a threat. His Chaos aura is a big deal, true, but don't hype him up more than he deserves.
 
I wonder if Mathilde will try to get her new definition of where the chaos waste border starts more widely accepted when/if she gets back. "Praag? That's a rookie number. Try eighty miles south of Dum."
 
I don't want to, or feel like we are forced to, fight him, actually.

What if we can just avoid him, edge around him, and observe the Karak from a distance? And then later potentially get to the Karay or its Waystone, without approaching Morghur himself?

So... We don't have to 1vLots Morghur in melee combat in order to win or defeat him.

We just need to fulfill our objectives. Which might be accomplished by looking around, or Magically Unclogging a Waystone, or whatever.

Also, the poetic nature of the description made me uncertain -- @BoneyM, stuff like this:
"You'd seen pictures of Karag Dum, the tallest of a small cluster of mountains approached through an exposed vale. But now it stands alone, jutting out from a great crater that you find yourself on the lip of."
Maybe it sound like, to me, that Karag Dum used to be a cluster of mountains but not there's only a single mountain of that entire mountain cluster left.

Is that the case, BoneyM? Karag Dum consisted or a Karak built into a mountain range, a mountain cluster, but now only the central most mountain stands?

Or am I wrong about that -- and the "stands alone" thing, is that Karag Dum was always built into a singular, central, mountain... and the other, non-inhabited mountains, used to surround Karag Dum. But now those non-Dawi-settled mountains are gone. Only Karag Dum itself is left.

In fact, @BoneyM... Since the poetic wording also left me confused.

Is Karag Dum actually there? Like, the mountain and the hold?

I was under the impression, from first reading, that it was literally corrupted and turned into a Herdstone. And then, after you said that that wasn't it, I was still left going: "... Okay, but. Karag Dum consisted of a set of mountains. But now it's just one?"

And now I'm going:

"Oh wait. Is what is happening the following: Karag Dum still stands, it's still there, the mountain and hold is there."
"It's just, there's a Beastmen Demigod in front of the passage to that Dwarf Hold."

So, the "Karag Dum stands alone" thing is that it used to be surrounded by other mountains, and was in a vale, but not -- well, now the vale and mountains are more forming a crater.

... So...

If Morghur is just standing in front of Karag Dum, then... That's actually a bit comforting? It just means he's in the nominal way to Karag Dum.

And, again, as I've said before: maybe we don't have to immediately fight him. Not as a first resort anyway.

Maybe we just need to circle around him and enter Karag Dum from another angle. ((Oh but first, we talk to the Kurgans and figure out wtf is going on.))
DragonParadox said:
Herdstones are bad when they are in order territory. This place is indescribably fucked already, remember the biting house? As for Mogur getting more blessings, that is not a reason to throw our lives away. Order wins by choosing their battles and their battlefields. This ain't one of them. I will take 'Moghur gets stronger' in exchange for Vlag's return any day and call it a win.
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Uhuh. And if the failure mode isn't "Morghur gets a bit stronger, big deal" but instead "Morghur gets to corrupt the Dwarf Waystone Network from the northernmost Waystone spot"? That suddenly becomes our problem, then. It becomes everybody's problem, actually.
BoneyM said:
There's a non-punny reason, Mathilde just has no idea what it could be.
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Deathbybunnies said:
My first guess was that the name attracted his attention because it's one of his names, and he's insane.
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It's possible that Karag Dum -- or the Ancestor Gods -- foresaw his coming or something. Or that, Morghur was sent to Karag Dum, because it's a big enough deal.

Or maybe it's because Queen Ariel is in Karag Dum. Who knows why though. :V

Regardless. I think he's here because Karag Dum is A Big Freaking Deal, to the good guys and to Chaos. And so Morghur would love to be able to taint and destroy it.
 
JamesShazbond said:
So here's the thing. I don't know how unbeatable or not Morghur really is, but I'm just not at all interested in testing Kragg's belt against that mutation aura. Fantasy may not be 40k, but one thing it shares is that mutation is a death sentence. Even if we do take him out, one slip of that warp aura past our defenses, and the entire trajectory of this quest is irrevocably derailed. We'd never be able to show our face in the Empire again, at the least. I'm just not prepared to risk it.
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I mean, the trajectory of the Quest changes with every option we pick. That's kinda how Quests work.

This Is Not An Empire Quest, as the tag says.
 
JamesShazbond said:
OK, so, this is awful. However, there is something to consider: we've seen the fuel line coming from Dum, and Mathilde would have said something if it was pumping Dhar like a Herdstone would. There is a possibility that Karag Dum itself has yet to fall.
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Did she ever actually get a clear look at it?

Stone is an excellent insulator of magic and the magic was deep, deep underground.

If I'm drinking out of a cup with black glass and I only look at the drink from the side or bottom .. I really have no idea what color the drink is, do I?
 
Garlak said:
Uhuh. And if the failure mode isn't "Morghur gets a bit stronger, big deal" but instead "Morghur gets to corrupt the Dwarf Waystone Network from the northernmost Waystone spot"? That suddenly becomes our problem, then. It becomes everybody's problem, actually.
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Then we break the next Waystone linking Dun to Vlag rather than fighting the demigod. We have just done that trick once.
 
Morghur and his minions are being impowered by lots of Dhar, it's inside them and making them stronger.

The Second Secret of Dhar gets rid of the Dhar, all of the Dhar.

...

There is no need to panic all we need to do is use the Second Secret of Dhar and get Morghur and his minions in the backlash.
 
It has been confirmed as a figurative herdstone in the text. So overall this is good news.

Was already expecting a demon army besieging it, was expecting a Named Greater Demon, Morghur means they can't get one.

As far as Chaos champions go, they are getting the insane, barely lucid monster to hold ground.
If Chaos could replace him with someone better suited for sieges they would and he would be back in the Empire and Brettonia trying to burn down Athel Loren. You know, the place they can't send their greater demons because of instability but Morghur can walk around fine.
So Chaos cannot get someone better then Morghur to hold this place.

Chaos wouldn't put the effort to keep him here to hold empty ground in the wastes. The siege against the dwarves is still ongoing.

Demonic instability may well still be in full effect around here. Which means we have good odds of not running into things bigger than Cor Dum.
Cor Dum is really tough to kill. But he still keeps on dying.
This is why the whole expedition is heavily armed, this is why we brought people like Asarnil.

Survivors at Dum always meant that Chaos was going to contest us. The moment it looked like they might be intact that meant an army lead by a champion. This was on the cards ever since we knew about the waystone.
Now the only difference is it's in front of us, rather then three weeks away.
 
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The Karag Dum Expedition, Part 15
  • Threadmarks
    • Wheels sink into sand as the Alriksson slows and then stops, your eyes locked on the figure as it tosses its head to and fro, sending energies arcing through the air with every motion. Most of what little you know of Beastmen comes from your former Master's stories, and what little he knew of Morghur was second-hand. He's supposedly been locked in an eternal war with Athel Loren that occassionally spills out to devastate some other part of the Old World. The only time you've really heard about him outside of those stories is in relation to the High Elves pursuing him through Bretonnia some centuries ago, which is part of why Karag Dum's warnings in the lead-up to the Great War Against Chaos were ignored.

    As the demigod bellows once more but shows no sign of approaching, you risk a glance sideways at Borek, who'd become more and more glued to the prow as you grew nearer to his home. You're not sure what you expect - shock? disbelief? despair? But you definitely weren't expecting resignation. "Borek-"

    "We did the best we could," he says. "When it comes time to tell the rest of the Karaz Ankor what has become of us, please tell them that as well. May the Ancestors forgive us."

    With that, he pulls loose a knot that causes a rope ladder to unfurl and clambers over the guardrail. "Borek?" you ask, trying to process this as the first of the other Dwarves start to spill out of the lower levels, seeking a better view than they could get from what would have to be very crowded gun-ports.

    "What in Grimnir's name is that?" says the first Ranger to reach your side.

    "Cor-Dum," you answer simply.

    There's silence for a moment. "Ah," he says. Then he looks down. "What's Borek doing?"

    "If that's Cor-Dum, that's it for Karag Dum," says another. "He'd be joining his kin."

    "Maybe," you say, watching him. Something about this isn't adding up.

    Though Borek's pace is steady, his process across the sand is anything but, as the heat-shimmer embraces him and sends mirages of his image shimmering to and fro. Morghur simply watches, and you can begin to make out parts of the forest's edge that are the silhouettes of other Beastmen, rather than trees. You ignore the steady thock of crossbow-fired messages from behind, then hear an out-of-breath Snorri swearing as he barges through the crowd behind you. "Why have we-" he stops himself as he looks out into the crater. "Where'd the other mountains go?"

    "Don't know," you answer.

    "Why is there a forest? And a desert?"

    "Don't know," you say again.

    "Why's Borek out there? Wait, who's that?"

    "I think it's more of a 'what' than a 'who'," you say.

    "Cor-Dum," one of the Rangers says.

    There's a moment as Snorri processes that. "Alright, job done, Borek's back home, time we accomplished the same for ourselves," he says briskly. "If this thing's stuck, leave it here."

    "Just a moment," you say. "Things aren't adding up."

    Across the sands, the two figures meet, and the Shadowgave bends down to consider the Dwarf before him. Then he reaches out a twisted claw and runs it over Borek's hair in what seems to be an affectionate gesture. He stands aside and Borek continues his march, disappearing into the trees. Deafening silence embraces the crowd of onlookers, broken only by the wind whistling past you.

    "Karag fucking Dum," one of the Engineers finally says.

    "I never listened to all the mutterings," Snorri says. "More fool I."

    Morghur gives one final bellow before disappearing back into the forest, and you exhale. Some time very soon, an even further reduced Council is going to meet, and all eyes are going to be on you to make sense of all this and suggest a course of action. You sigh and mentally begin to sort through the pieces of the puzzle before you.



    Morghur:
    - Morghur is said to have been 'born' three hundred years ago, but there's stories of beings identical to him stretching back throughout recorded history.
    - From your very limited knowledge, Morghur was last seen being pursued by High Elves in Bretonnia shortly before the Great War Against Chaos.
    - From what the Yusak said, and what the banners you passed seem to attest, Kurgan tribes have been fighting or 'testing themselves against' Morghur for some time.
    - Morghur did not attack Borek, instead greeting him with what to Dwarves is a very intimate gesture.
    - Borek's reaction to Morghur did not seem surprised.

    Karag Dum:
    - The magic flowing to Karak Vlag was uncorrupted, which you're fairly sure would not have been the case if the Hold had been conquered by Beastmen.
    - The landscape around Karag Dum has changed, including the disappearance of the smaller mountains around it, the growth of a forest around its base, and the appearance of a desert around the forest. It is also hotter here than anywhere else in the Steppes. Apart from the forests covering the lower parts of it, the exterior of Karag Dum appears unchanged.
    - The forest is inhabited by Beastmen, who seem to be obeying Morghur.
    - As far as Mathilde can tell, none of this is an illusion.
    - There is less ambient Dhar here than other parts of the Chaos Wastes Mathilde has seen, though still more than outside of it.


    Mathilde will present the leading theories and courses of action as possibilities to the rest of the Council. You may vote for multiples of each if you wish. Please use this format to vote for them:
    [ ] THEORY:
    [ ] ACTION:


    - There will be a three hour moratorium for the above to be digested and discussed.
    - If anyone has data points that Mathilde would have access to that they think should be added to the above, please suggest them.
    - If there's anything about this that's unclear but would be clear to Mathilde, please point out what.
     
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    • I think Mathildes words to Pan might well have been prophetic. I'm honestly not sure how most of us come out of this alive tbh.

    The only thing we have going for us is that hopefully our Anti dhar belt will be able to counter the mutation effect and so active everything around us will literally be fire thus allowing us to physically kill Morghur as his regen doesn't work on flaming attacks.
     
    Garlak said:
    I don't want to, or feel like we are forced to, fight him, actually.

    What if we can just avoid him, edge around him, and observe the Karak from a distance? And then later potentially get to the Karay or its Waystone, without approaching Morghur himself?

    So... We don't have to 1vLots Morghur in melee combat in order to win or defeat him.

    We just need to fulfill our objectives. Which might be accomplished by looking around, or Magically Unclogging a Waystone, or whatever.

    Also, the poetic nature of the description made me uncertain -- @BoneyM, stuff like this:
    "You'd seen pictures of Karag Dum, the tallest of a small cluster of mountains approached through an exposed vale. But now it stands alone, jutting out from a great crater that you find yourself on the lip of."
    Maybe it sound like, to me, that Karag Dum used to be a cluster of mountains but not there's only a single mountain of that entire mountain cluster left.

    Is that the case, BoneyM? Karag Dum consisted or a Karak built into a mountain range, a mountain cluster, but now only the central most mountain stands?

    Or am I wrong about that -- and the "stands alone" thing, is that Karag Dum was always built into a singular, central, mountain... and the other, non-inhabited mountains, used to surround Karag Dum. But now those non-Dawi-settled mountains are gone. Only Karag Dum itself is left.

    In fact, @BoneyM... Since the poetic wording also left me confused.

    Is Karag Dum actually there? Like, the mountain and the hold?

    I was under the impression, from first reading, that it was literally corrupted and turned into a Herdstone. And then, after you said that that wasn't it, I was still left going: "... Okay, but. Karag Dum consisted of a set of mountains. But now it's just one?"

    And now I'm going:

    "Oh wait. Is what is happening the following: Karag Dum still stands, it's still there, the mountain and hold is there."
    "It's just, there's a Beastmen Demigod in front of the passage to that Dwarf Hold."

    So, the "Karag Dum stands alone" thing is that it used to be surrounded by other mountains, and was in a vale, but not -- well, now the vale and mountains are more forming a crater.

    ... So...

    If Morghur is just standing in front of Karag Dum, then... That's actually a bit comforting? It just means he's in the nominal way to Karag Dum.

    And, again, as I've said before: maybe we don't have to immediately fight him. Not as a first resort anyway.

    Maybe we just need to circle around him and enter Karag Dum from another angle. ((Oh but first, we talk to the Kurgans and figure out wtf is going on.))

    Uhuh. And if the failure mode isn't "Morghur gets a bit stronger, big deal" but instead "Morghur gets to corrupt the Dwarf Waystone Network from the northernmost Waystone spot"? That suddenly becomes our problem, then. It becomes everybody's problem, actually.
    Click to expand...
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    Please let me know if anything's still unclear after this new update.
     
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    King Arthur said:
    Did she ever actually get a clear look at it?

    Stone is an excellent insulator of magic and the magic was deep, deep underground.

    If I'm drinking out of a cup with black glass and I only look at the drink from the side or bottom .. I really have no idea what color the drink is, do I?
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    There's only one Waystone linking Dum to Vlag, and she got a pretty damn good look at that thing. She probably would've noticed if Cor-Dum had any access to it.

    Edit:

    ...What the fuck?
     
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    Very very jokingly:

    Maybe one of the AncestorGods came back to welcome Mathilde into the Karaz Ankor, and the Shadowgave came to stop it!:)
     
    I am somewhat confused by the whole cresting a rise and discovering crater/forest/mountain for the first time. What happened to all the ranging scouts?
     
    Chlof said:
    Oh, shit.

    Edit: I'm now guessing that the grid roll was for "Are they still holding out" and "Severity of besiegers".
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    And we got... second of the top row I think?

    So that leaves us to wonder: is beseiger severity top-to-bottom or left-to-right?

    ninjafish said:
    So I'm gonna go ahead and say there are no survivors then.
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    I think there are, a herdstone should definitely have interrupted the flow of energy if it was pulled off properly.
    At least, when Beastmen turn waystones into herdstones in the Empire it messes with the waystone network.
     
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