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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own

[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
[X] Social: Lord Dwalin Thunderlung
 
gotta talk to the Branna. We get few enough chances as it is. And this night even help the chances of that Branna who wants to join out Hearthguard
 
gotta talk to the Branna. We get few enough chances as it is. And this night even help the chances of that Branna who wants to join out Hearthguard

I just want a better understanding of what's going on with KotS's storm magic. I was fully under the impression that it was an effect that was limited to an area around him - the fact that he can pass it on to one of his subjects is just, damn.

Plus, there's a chance that the griffon might give Snorri enough of a hint about the winds of magic to break Durin's Consternation on the prismatic dragon blood.
 
[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
[X] Social: Lord Dwalin Thunderlung
 
You are most likely talking about either Hirn (relatively close to blackfirepass), Norn(near Athel Loren) or Izor (Izor is the vaults). All of them are young holds, and rose in prominence after War of Vengeance. What is important to remember is that War of Vengeance is two millenia away unless something moved the timetable already.
I'm not talking about Hirn. Norn, or Izor (I honestly thought they were built after the Beard War). I'm referring to the holds like the ones in The Grudge of Dron on 4dchan's page for that campaign, Talos (dwarfs made skaven, or got eaten by the first skaven), ones like Krag Bryn (Gleaming Mountain), Kazad Thund, Zhakhar Varf, Black Fire Fort, Angaz Baragdum (empire dwarf trading holds/posts, not located in Tilea or Estalia, except for Krag Bryn and Kazad Thum probably, which means I goofed, but there were dwarf trading outposts in empire lands). Barack Varr's wiki page even says it was built as a naval hold with dwarf roads in the Border Prince area leading throughout the area, where did dwarves get boat tech?

What the warhammer fantasy wiki doesn't bother pointing out is the dwarf holds that were around/destroyed in the war of vengeance. Or the fortifications of Black Fire pass that were decayed when Sigmar first fought there, when was that built?
 
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I just want a better understanding of what's going on with KotS's storm magic. I was fully under the impression that it was an effect that was limited to an area around him - the fact that he can pass it on to one of his subjects is just, damn.

Plus, there's a chance that the griffon might give Snorri enough of a hint about the winds of magic to break Durin's Consternation on the prismatic dragon blood.
Yeah I thought the storm was linked to the KoTS' wearing his armor not an intrinsic thing they all had.

All we need is one of those birds to mention the winds to finally get a lead on that. Though admittedly, even if Snorri learns about the winds, he might not trust any of the griffons enough to ask their help with the experiments. Maybe Ebonbeak?
 
I wrote something up. Hope ya like it, and if you want you can vote it.

[X]-Ramblings of a an Elder

"Kingship eh?

I'm not much one for politics, but philosophy and tradition have been on my mind of late, so I think I'll muse on that question for a time. What is kingship?
Well.

Let me tell you about your grandfather, and our first campaign together. We were a mustered throng, going to avenge the deaths and woundings of too many dwarves by the foul Troll enemy. When asked who should lead the throng, I responded that the highest seniority thane/longbeard should lead us as is traditional. Your grandfather took that responsibility, and led us to battle.

We, in the aftermath, now know of the grave threat of the Greed Trolls and the Greedy One specifically. The foul taint and portals which would threaten to tear us apart.

And what happened? When we were sorely tested? A man placed into command of a situation much more dire than any expected?
We fought. He led. We followed. Through personal skill and skillful command, your grandfather smashed the foul trolls apart fast enough for me to do my job. A runelord's job. A smiting of the foulest enemies of the Dawi, and the protection of the Dawi from those enemies.

He did well. Quite well. Later, when he wanted a weapon to commemorate the victory, I thought about the battle. The enemy was worse than could have been expected. The number of trolls was higher than I have seen afore and since. Did our throng acquit ourselves as well as could be expected, or was that day deserving of a grander undertaking commensurate to the effort put forth beyond expectation?

It may be said that I chose your grandfather for kingship, and in political terms that may be true. Your grandfather though, when given a situation where many could die, where many would die, shouldered the burden with distinction and pulled our Throng into greater victory. Dwarves of our Karak lived that could have died. Trolls that could have escaped were exterminated, so that their brood would not feast on our children generations hence. Demons that could have obstructed me, that were obstructing me, were shoved aside and asunder by the deeds of your Grandfather.

The diplomacy. The planning. The Throng's successes with Grimnir. The Karak's success overall. Even the pacts with the Branaroki and the greater reclamation of the Northern holds. These are all things that your grandfather has done, and would have done with or without a crown.

Sure it would have been harder for him, but the man knows that Kingship is a burden just as a Thane has a burden, or a Clan Head has a burden, or a Rune Lord has a burden.

You're a beardling yet, which is as good a time as any to learn of elder issues. When asked for my recommendations, or thoughts on an honored dwarf whom I have seniority to, I ask myself a set of questions. Others may have other questions, but I think you'll find some of these familiar enough.

Are they personally honorable and dependable Dwarves?
Do they keep good account of themselves and those closest to them?
Do they improve their Karak, or the Karak's they visit by their actions?
Do they improve the Karaz Ankor as a whole by their actions and habits?
If their life is studied by the younglings, will the younglings be bettered for that knowledge?

These are changed in tone and purview based upon a dwarf's chosen vocation. I'm not a politician, nor a commander, but I think kingship is not just a mashing of those two duties.

No. When I look at the Ancestor's lives, and the fact that none are King, I think that kingship must then be the organizing and communicating of dwarves with one another. We are a stout and mighty peoples, and through many vocations may we better our kin. Warriors yes, but also the clothier, the trader, the toymaker, each vocation which betters the Karaz Ankor honors the Ancestors.

So what is the King's vocation? The King's vocation is that of an organizer, both of Throngs and of Holds. The King's vocation is leadership, both of youths and of elders. To know when to listen, but firstly one must know how to listen, is as important as the ability to take decisive action. It would be folly to think a King knows more of a craft than the head of a Guild, and yet those Guilds still listen. Why? Because the King knows more of the happenings of the other Guilds, the other Holds, the other needs and strengths of our peoples.

I would not worry overmuch of a youth spent at war. Your grandfather carried those experiences well into the later responsibilities of diplomacy and economics. At the same time, it is good to worry some over the later responsibilities. Your grandfather took to them well, but whether that was talent and hardwork or planning and hardwork or all three I couldn't say.

So I believe that is the answer then. Kingship is the vocation of leading dwarves. A short and simple answer, to be sure, but a sturdy foundation which can be decorated, embellished and built upon by the thoughts of other leaders of dwarves. Clan Heads, Guild Heads, Thanes, other Kings and the Ancestors themselves all also lead Dwarves. As do your father, and grandfather of course.

As for me, I'm more than content holed up in my forge and researching my craft. I've no desire to be embroiled in politics, so perhaps my thoughts on the matter are a bit shorter than I'd like. Still. When I think about whether or not it would be good for future beardlings to ask their elders what kingship is, I think it would be good for those future beardlings to do and a sign that those future beardlings may be well suited to leading.

If they can prove themselves further, of course. A few embers the right shade does not a forgefire make. It would be years before it could be known whether the fire was right-tempered for forge craft. Not to mention the stonework required to house such a flame, or the layers of defensive fortifications that should guard the approach to such a forge. I mean. Making the proper forge is half the battle itself when going about proper runecraft! Only after that does it become important to make sure the fire within is correctly tempered. It is the long work of many years, I'll tell you. Many, many years.

Still. A proper foundation is a good way to start. In fact, it would be the only way to start, if I had my choice of the matter. The world does not always accommodate my wishes though, which is just another reason to grumble at such. It's certainly not stone, nor even a softer metal. Ancestors be praised for carving out the first Karaks, for even if the world is unsteady at least our homes are sturdy and solid.

*grumble a bit longer, harumph, nod and walk away*
"
 
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[X] Character Moment: A Kingdom is a house
-[x] If you think of a kingdom as a house, stout and solid stone, holding against the harshness of the world, then the King is the cornerstone of that house. He caries the burdens of the rest, knowing none take them from him, true, but also sets an example for them doing so. But, a cornerstone is more. A cornerstone sets the location of the house, so all other stones are set in their proper place, and can orient to be just so. It's construction sets an example for all of the other stones used to build the house. And still, with all of that, it is also part of the wall defending the house from whatever seeks to break the walls.
 
[X] Character Moment: Kingly Consequences
-[X] A king must be keenly aware of the consequences his actions will have on his people, like how your uncle diffused that argument. If he hadn't such an argument may have spiraled into much worse things.
-[X] A king must be able to ask 'Why?'. Why is he choosing to act in a certain way or make a certain decision? Why are other people making their choices? Why are his enemies acting the way they are.
-[X] A king must have a strong back to bear burdens.

[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
[X]-Ramblings of a an Elder

[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
 
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[X] Character Moment: Kingly Consequences
-[X] A king must be keenly aware of the consequences his actions will have on his people, like how your uncle diffused that argument. If he hadn't such an argument may have spiraled into much worse things.
-[X] A king must be able to ask 'Why?'. Why is he choosing to act in a certain way or make a certain decision? Why are other people making their choices? Why are his enemies acting the way they are.
-[X] A king must have a strong back to bear burdens.

[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
[X]-Ramblings of a an Elder

[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
 
Honestly @JowKeen that entire thing is pretty neat, but too rambly and long for me to actually vote for it.
 
[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing

[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
 
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak

I like Rangers, okay?
 
[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
 
[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
-[X] A King's Honour is Bound to his Hold: It does not matter what glories you win, what monsters you slay, what weatlh you amass. Your people's prosperity is your honour, your people's suffering your shame. As King, the question you must ask of your every action is, "Is this what is best for the Hold?" The answer to that question will never be simple or come easily. But a true King strives to make certain the answer is always yes.
-[X] Know Yourself: You will never be King Otrek. You will never be King Gloin. Because you are not Otrek, and you are not Gloin. You may, however, one day become King Gimli, and King Gimli's legacy may equal or surpass that of King Gloin or King Otrek. You say you know you're not a thinker, you have skill in battle, and you make friends easily. That's a start. Do better. Know yourself, know your strengths, your weaknesses, your blind spots. Because...
-[X] The Most Important Thing a King Must Do Well is Delegate: You will never be good at everything. You cannot be everywhere. You cannot do the work of a hold with your two hands. Above all else, you must become adept at recognizing skill in your subjects, and giving them responsibility to match. You say you're not a thinker? Then you'd damn well better learn to recognize good thinkers when you see them, and make the very best use of them.
-[X] Sometimes, You'll Lose: It's inevitable. Much as you will spend every waking minute seeking to avoid it, some day you will fail, and your hold will pay the cost. In that circumstance, many will shy away from the shame, try to push it elsewhere. Others will shy away from the responsibility, believing themselves not equal to the task. A true King shuns both those lies. He faces the truth with courage, and shoulders the burden of shame. He sees failure for what it is: a mine of the most precious ore any dwarf can possess: Wisdom.
 
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
 
[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak
 
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