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By the way, what is the point of guns now that we have shadow knives?

I always thought of them as of a stopgap measure. I believe we are at the point where we should retire them.
 
By the way, what is the point of guns now that we have shadow knives?

I always thought of them as of a stopgap measure. I believe we are at the point where we should retire them.
They've got like ten times the range and they don't miscast.

Also, they're very compact, so it's not like they're getting in the way or anything when we take them with us.
 
[X] [TOWER] Ongoing
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.

Jumping way back to deal with my pending multiquote log:

Comparative analysis of contents with other anatomy books. Its how people do it IRL for historical texts in lost languages
Do we even have access to another source on Chaos Dwarf anatomy? It's not something the dwarfs like acknowledging the existence of, much less handing out detailed studies on.
I'd like to make a wand so that we still have a back slot available for a rifle.
Two points:
1. Any plan that focuses on enabling future riflery is going to attract enormous backlash from the anti-rifle camp. Personally, I could care less either way about rifles in the abstract, but:
2. Consider that the increased DC to make a wand instead of a staff could instead be increased DC to make a truly epic staff. And while rifles are pretty cool, super awesome staff beats rifle + basic bitch staff in my book, no question.
That't really weird.
I don't really get how these traits play together.
Have you ever had a job that you knew you were good at even though you absolutely hated it? It's pretty much like that. (It's why I got out of sales.)
And I'm completely okay with letting the library sort itself out amongst you folks.
Yeahhhhhhhh...I don't feel strongly enough about 2 favour or +1 to skaven stuff to get involved in that particular debate.
 
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If we are going to rune our guns... and that just sounds weird, or enchant them, I suggest we get an extra one and get them done one at a time. that way we will always be fully armed.
Not a bad point. We've got two revolvers and a marksdwarf pistol, so we could send one gun to be enhanced and keep the others around.

But I think it's probably better to focus our efforts on Branalhune than on developing another weapons skill. For now, at least.
Is there a reason 1% over 1 turn is worth 2 favor?
It's 1% on multiple rolls for multiple different characters. You yourself pointed out that our prisoner may be up to funny business; this is 1% on every opposed roll we make against him next turn. Johann can use it on his extracurricular activities or for researching skaven tech. Max can use it on a skaven-related topic we put him on, if we decide to trust him with that (I may still be kind of salty about last turn's Max action).

So much that we or our team does involve the skaven. 1% on every one of those rolls next turn for 2 favour? Yeah, that's efficient enough to be worth our while.
 
They've got like ten times the range and they don't miscast.

Also, they're very compact, so it's not like they're getting in the way or anything when we take them with us.
I'm doubtful about the range claim and shadow knives also don't miscast, given our magic stat.
I'd rather keep them, never hurts to have options.
I'm not being literal here. More correctly my position is "I'm against any kind of further investments if time or resources into guns".
 
Is there a reason 1% over 1 turn is worth 2 favor?
I feel like this has been said at some point, but note:
It's not 'over one turn.' Sure, maybe we'll pick up Skaven Esoteric next turn. But then we'll be that 1% behind on whatever we're actually working on that turn instead, because we spent our budget on the Skaven thing instead. Or Skaven Esoteric will fall through the cracks in favor of whatever we're doing next turn, which will probably continue on into the future for some significant amount of time.

We roll a lot of dice in this quest; I don't think it would be all that long until we flub one by a single point, or that an extra point would have got us into the next highest DC bracket. Is a failed roll, or even just a less successful roll, worth 2 favor?
 
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On Dwarven Runes, can it be applied to cloth? Or Spider Silk? Maybe the Snek Juice can make that possible?

Could be the answer to our (comparitively) lacking armor which relies on the admittedly strong Aetheryic Armor.
 
But then we'll be that 1% behind on whatever we're actually working on that turn instead, because we spent our budget on the Skaven thing instead.
We will in fact be 2% behind on stuff for that turn, because 2 favour buys Antiquarian quality; spending our stipend on upgrading Antiquarian to Esoteric is less efficient than just buying a new topic's Antiquarian quality.

I normally would never consider springing for Esoteric dwarf quality, but skaven is just a topic that's going to come up so many goddamn times, and is so important right now, that the extra 1% does seem worth it.
On Dwarven Runes, can it be applied to cloth? Or Spider Silk? Maybe the Snek Juice can make that possible?

Could be the answer to our (comparitively) lacking armor which relies on the admittedly strong Aetheryic Armor.
Dwarves were able to do this once. The art of inscribing runes onto cloth or leather has been lost.

(This is what depresses Belegar about the Slayers. Dwarves have lost so much knowledge and expertise already, and the despair of it drives them to throw away more.)
 
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It's 1% on multiple rolls for multiple different characters. You yourself pointed out that our prisoner may be up to funny business; this is 1% on every opposed roll we make against him next turn. Johann can use it on his extracurricular activities or for researching skaven tech. Max can use it on a skaven-related topic we put him on, if we decide to trust him with that (I may still be kind of salty about last turn's Max action).

So much that we or our team does involve the skaven. 1% on every one of those rolls next turn for 2 favour? Yeah, that's efficient enough to be worth our while.
I mean, that's a bit more valid but it's ultimately making the assumption that the 1% will be decisive in any of those rolls- I'm not good with statistics so I can't say either way but I can't stay I'd still be excited over spending 2 favor on say ~
It's not 'over one turn.' Sure, maybe we'll pick up Skaven Esoteric next turn. But then we'll be that 1% behind on whatever we're actually working on that turn instead, because we spent our budget on the Skaven thing instead. Or Skaven Esoteric will fall through the cracks in favor of whatever we're doing next turn, which will probably continue on into the future for some significant amount of time.

We roll a lot of dice in this quest; I don't think it would be all that long until we flub one by a single point, or that an extra point would have got us into the next highest DC bracket.
And I would give that argument more merit if people would take the time arguing what hypotheticals we might be dealing with next turn exclusively. Cartography? We can focus on getting an Esoteric in that from the Imperials and the Brettonians to compensate. The Aethyric Vitae? I mean, I was sort under the impression we already got the Dwarf's books on the warp and magic as a whole considering they don't have books on the colors. But even then, those 1% are likely to be even less relevant because as picklepikkl has said we're going to be rolling multiple times under the Skaven subject in that one turn. I don't see us rolling either the cartography or the Aethyric Vitae that much in one turn even if it's our primary project.
 
  1. That wasn't the point, we could definitely enchant our own handguns if we want to but it's entirely possible we want Dwarf Runes, especially since they have a lot more experience magically enhancing range weapons then the Colleges do
  2. One is to prevent someone from breaking into our place, the other is to prevent our guest from getting up to shit. Considering Boney is making rolls for the latter already they are absolutely different and it's liable we're going to do something with the prison soon
  3. Really? What else do you think we're going to spend the Great Deed on and I doubt it will take us 10 turns to reach Lord Magister. Your opinion is noted as just that
  4. That's a big if, especially since the trade off isn't books versus towers, it's books now versus towers. We can still easily get the books by waiting a turn. Compare the hundreds of words I've spent listing other uses for Dwarf favor and the scant few I've seen explaining why there's something that makes Antiquarian Skaven picks anything but a super obvious pick next turn and thus demanding our personal favor
  5. Possibilities man, we're not always going to be Loremaster, and that potentially opens up options for our ducklings and subordinates. Regardless I'm listing alternatives, the onus isn't exactly on me to argue why the thread should vote for them.
  6. Destroying magic is literally what the Dwarfs do best. I'm going to want to see a WoG that Dwarfs couldn't have anything to contribute when it comes to a grounding rod. Your unsupported opinion is not inspiring a lot of confidence right now.
1. That's... highly debatable. At the end of the day however, we can get something this from the colleges and the dwarves, and the colleges are much cheaper.
2. Boney said he might be making rolls for it. He was purposely ambiguous. If you want to keep an eye on him, the college would be better than the dwarves. Call it my opinion or not, but the dwarves haven't shown anything compared to wizard enchanting which at the higher levels resembles programming.
3. Anything else that doesn't add another action crunch. Maybe we want to keep it in our pocket for politics. You opinion is also noted as just that.
4. I might be willing to give up any other book purchases. But skaven is simply just not happening.
5. I think you got mixed up on the numbers? At any rate, just listing possibilities isn't enough. You are saying "Look at all this stuff we might want." I'm replying "Most of this stuff sucks, and here's why." If you don't want to argue against me, then don't. My arguments aren't only directed at you.
6. The dwarves also have absolutely nothing to do with actually manipulating magic. There has been WOG on this. The only major rune we've seen that might qualify is the Rune on our Belt and excuse me if I'd prefer not to have any miscast spells burned from our minds. The college miscast rod is pretty good. Why the hell would we want to get another from dwarves? You are basically giving your opinion and then telling me my opinions are shit.
 
Is there anything in particular that we're saving college favour for? Our capacity to learn enemy names is about to go up: seems like a good time to commission a Burning Vengeance item.
 
Is there anything in particular that we're saving college favour for? Our capacity to learn enemy names is about to go up: seems like a good time to commission a Burning Vengeance item.
We might want to buy more college aid next turn. Boney said that there would be options to e.g. buy enchanted items to deal with weather problems.

I like the idea of a Burning Vengeance item, but we're not going to be doing anything next turn that could provide us with the names we might use for it, so we can hold off. I also still am tempted by a Speed of Light item, but, again, we're probably not doing anything next turn that could use it.
Kyvinn Wyr? Nothing else that requires us to stockpile favor comes to mind.
god i hope Boney lets us hire the Bright Lord Magister who adapted our work when Kvinn-Wyr season rolls around
 
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I'm doubtful about the range claim and shadow knives also don't miscast, given our magic stat.
We had to roll for Aethyric armor when we were sprinting away from those goblins. Optimal casting isn't the same as casting under stress. Plus, miscast chances build up over the day, narratively; if we roll the metaphorical dice enough casting safe spells we're going to start rolling the literal ones (which is why we don't spend all day using our tireless magic armor).

Speaking of our tireless magical armor, we need to keep studying enchanting. We know that it's exceptionally difficult to enchant Mastery effects, but being literally tireless all day is an effect as powerful as being immune to Dhar is, as far as our martial is concerned.

Like, it depends on what tirelessness is to us, of course. If it means we just don't feel it, that's exceptional. We can sprint until we pass out. We can lift until we hurt our arms. Our psychological limitations will have been unlocked, and though our resources will remain nominally human our determination will be superhuman.

If it means we just don't get tired, that's absurd. We can sprint until we starve ourselves, of food or oxygen. We can lift indefinitely. We can fight forever, and as long as we get enough down-time to heal or absorb our foes we'll be as fresh on the last day of the siege as the first (presuming we also don't starve). And we can swing, and swing, and swing our greatsword as quickly and skillfully in the last minute of battle as it was in the first minute. Or, you know, the bare minimum for the sort of thing video game characters get up to.
On Dwarven Runes, can it be applied to cloth? Or Spider Silk? Maybe the Snek Juice can make that possible?
It used to be possible, but as far as I know the skills have been lost to the ages; stone and metal are the only things sturdy enough these days.
 
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We had to roll for Aethyric armor when we were sprinting away from those goblins. Optimal casting isn't the same as casting under stress. Plus, miscast chances build up over the day, narratively; if we roll the metaphorical dice enough casting safe spells we're going to start rolling the literal ones (which is why we don't spend all day using our tireless magic armor).

Speaking of our tireless magical armor, we need to keep studying enchanting. We know that it's exceptionally difficult to enchant Mastery effects, but being literally tireless all day is an effect as powerful as being immune to Dhar is, as far as our martial is concerned.

Like, it depends on what tirelessness is to us, of course. If it means we just don't feel it, that's exceptional. We can sprint until we pass out. We can lift until we hurt our arms. Our psychological limitations will have been unlocked, and though our resources will remain nominally human our determination will be superhuman.

If it means we just don't get tired, that's absurd. We can sprint until we starve ourselves, of food or oxygen. We can lift indefinitely. We can fight forever, and as long as we get enough down-time to heal or absorb our foes we'll be as fresh on the last day of the siege as the first (presuming we also don't starve). And we can swing, and swing, and swing our greatsword as quickly and skillfully in the last minute of battle as it was in the first minute. Or, you know, the bare minimum for the sort of thing video game characters get up to.

Personally I'm hoping for something like Perfect Vigor from the Total War games which is pretty much the latter option that you described.
 
It used to be possible, but as far as I know the skills have been lost to the ages; stone and metal are the only things sturdy enough these days.
Yeah, Ungrim Ironfist current Slayer King is either wearing a Runed Dragonscale cloak or has one as a Banner IIRC.

They have no idea whatsoever how to make a new one.

Another interesting tidbit of lore: during the thread's discussion of Liber Mortis there were a lot of mentions of its copy that rests under the Temple of Sigmar in case of another undead shitstorm. Well, in latest (non-End Times) canon they kinda lost it in 2453. Arkhan invaded with an undead army, broke into the temple, stole the book and GTFO. This event is mentioned in both 8E TT Empire book and in the 4E RPG Core book.
Oh my god really?

*sigh*

Thankfully that doesn't seem to be quest canon since we started the quest in 2450 and Boney has gone on record to say anything post that date was scrubbed. Hopefully this was included, since we heard nothing like it occuring.

Part of me wants to make the ducklings some graduation gifts when they eventually go, like a token of take no heed or something would be an amazing little trinket for any wizard, but like half our spells would cause the Bursar to yell at us haha.

"So you gave the Easy Bank Robbery token to the amethyst wizard obsessed with wealth hm? Wanna think about what you might have done wrong?"
Could always make them "harmless magical rings of invisibility". :V
 
Personally, I would like to start leveraging our relationship and favor with the Dwarves and membership of the colleges to try and start up some other Dwarf/Wizard collaborations. This would be a multi year thing, likely over the course of a decade or so. But runecraft+wizardry is an absurdly good combo.
If it means we just don't get tired, that's absurd. We can sprint until we starve ourselves, of food or oxygen. We can lift indefinitely. We can fight forever, and as long as we get enough down-time to heal or absorb our foes we'll be as fresh on the last day of the siege as the first (presuming we also don't starve). And we can swing, and swing, and swing our greatsword as quickly and skillfully in the last minute of battle as it was in the first minute.
Outlasting Dwarves would be an amazing scene. Hell, we could probably get absurd college favor by making a set of ten or so of them once we can.
 
He's got his opinions but he's also got survival instincts, and he can recognize what fights it's better not to have. Included in this category is 'any fight whatsoever that pits you against double digits of Battle Wizards'.
Also, this is "something got the Emperor to specifically let the Battle Wizards off their leash" - that's not something you want to pick a fight about unless you are absolutely sure you know everything that's going on. And given that Mathilde is a Grey Wizard, that surety is not going to be present.

Chapter reactions: Ouch for Belegar. He really needs help... but the Empire has enough troubles that it can't really afford to send much help, and most of the Dwarven help has already been obtained. Anyone got a Rune of Infinite Lava, or something like that could just be set to flood the Skaven tunnels?

After a moment of thought, he sets the parchment down, and the dimensions of the desk wrinkle for a heartbeat as the parchment slides in the opposite direction of reality and out of sight.
Again, I want that desk. Or at least, I want to know how it's made. Very nice description of how it looks, there.
He returns it. "You've become quite a credit to the College. Keep it up, young Magister."
Patriarch headpats! Prrrr...
You flip through a number of reports on attempts at adapting the MAP to other winds, and apart from the Bright College it seems that all attempts were dismal failures, seemingly because their own Winds don't have the natural inclination to flow and pool. But then you flip further and find a sparse few paragraphs in which a Bright College Lord Magister guts your spell, replaces its innards with a few simple flourishes, and sends it on its way, simplified enough for any Apprentice to cast. Following that is eight near-identical letters informing you that your spell has been added to the curricula of all eight Colleges.
If we every have some spare time, it might be worthwhile to see if we can talk magical theory with Lord Magister Olenus. I don't know if Aqshy and Ulgu have enough similarities to make it really useful, but it could well be informative. Also, they seem to be a fair-minded sort, and that's the sort that are worth making contacts with.
Though it goes unnoticed by the relatively undeveloped senses of those few Jade Wizards trusted enough to look her over, divine energy dances through both her and her unborn child, engaging in a constant dance that intertwines without ever quite mingling. Shallya's blessings fill them both with vitality, and Ranald's careful oversight seeks to guide them into a comfortable future like a pilot into port.
I would imagine that few wizards have the combination of highly-developed magesight and the Avatar spiritual sensitivity to divine energies...
Also, I imagine Sigmar is making like the remaining Battle Wizards in town: slightly begrudgingly waiting "outside", hammer ready, waiting for someone to come by and sneeze wrong. (For all Ranald is a troublemaker, he does rather approve of the Empire as an institution, I would imagine.)
Bells ring, town criers shout, and messengers scatter in all directions as news goes out to every corner of the Empire. Celebrations spill out into the street, partly out of patriotism and partly because canny Luitpold has subsidized the price of wine and ale throughout the city, ensuring that all citizens start their relationship off with the new heir on the right foot. Custom dictates that parents give thanks to Shallya for a healthy birth with a small gift of food, and Luitpold scales up accordingly and turns over the contents of several royal granaries.
Having a clever Emperor is a good thing - getting a happy association with his heir is definitely a Good Thing.
The child stirs slightly as his tiny shirt is unbuttoned, and you prick a forefinger with a shadowchisel and draw a cross in blood above his heart. "Ranald greets you, Mandred. May this world bring you joy, and may you bring joy to this world."
Sigmar grumbles in "Mathilde doesn't care".
you follow a hunch and arrive unannounced at an awkward hour, and when sunrise and cock-crow arrives and a sleepy Princess returns to her guest quarters, she finds an unexpected Grey Wizard awaiting her.

"Good morning, fellow Councillor," you say with a smile. "I applaud your dedication, to be getting to bed this early in the morning."

"Ah," she says, brain trying to go from zero to a sprint in an instant. "Magister Weber."

"I must also applaud Prince Kazrik for providing such prolonged assistance to you."

"Yes," she says. "Assistance. We were-"

"Grungen? Developing bokkul? Adgalazgandit?" Though Khazalid doesn't have Reikspiel's breadth of creative euphemisms, it does have a lot of abusable mining terminology, and Edda blushes deeply. And that only worsens as you exercise your grasp of the language.
Heh. Mathilde is such a little shit, sometimes. Fortunately, it seems she kept the teasing to relatively-friendly levels.
Oh, she operates fine as an ambassador, a representative speaking on behalf of a Dwarven Kingdom, but she doesn't seem to understand how humans operate on every level, and seems limited to speaking her request and seeing what happens, and if she gets any result but acquiescence she's lost. It's not a matter of any sort of dislike, as far as you can tell - you and her get on fine, and you're not just a human but a wizard. It's just that as an administrator, she's used to Dwarves, who can almost always be predicted and when something goes wrong, it's usually in a fairly predictable way. You imagine it must be something like a champion sheepdog being expected to run herd on a cat farm.
Ouch. Tricky problem. Maybe see if Kazrik can help with this?
Also, regarding cat farms...
"They're like cats!" Roswita shouts, waving her arms out the window of the briefing room in the general direction of the battlefields of Sylvania. "Every day, someone with fire instead of hair or surrounded by birds or a skull instead of a face wanders in and drops off a Vampire skull or the head of some forest mutant or a cartload of bones and I say thank you and they act like I've thrown a party and named my firstborn after them, and they go off to find something even worse to drag back! Look what they did to my table!"
This whole thing just killed me laughing. Ded. I love how exasperation with weirdness seems to have eroded some of Roswita's fear of wizards. Also, how the Battle Wizards seem to have embraced The Weird. Although it seems that they still need more headpats. Fortunately, Roswita's pride has her providing them, in spite of her fears. And Elector Countess headpats are pretty good.
Part of Tempelhof got destroyed, and some of them rebuilt it, but refused to rebuild the roofs because 'why would they want the stars obstructed?' and they had to be led away to go bother the Strigoi.
Definitely Celestials. Why U dis way, Celestials?
Yes, and their Primar came all the way here and said if we keep away the Vampires and the wizards, they'll pay taxes and accept whatever authority I put over them.
And here's another side to this move, which makes it a canny one by the Emperor and the Colleges. The Battle Wizards get out to play, which makes them happy. (And they're doing something important, which helps.) They're getting appreciation of, at worst, "you're weird, and might explode, but you're absolutely needed here," which also very much helps morale. And, for all the weirdness, Roswita seems to be treating them as people, rather than weapons. And, word gets out to everyone else of what is likely to happen if they do have to be unleashed - at best, extreme weirdness.
She shrugs. "Magister Patriarch Feldmann says that Sylvania puts everyone on edge, so they're double-checking everything. He's at least sensible, and we've been working together to sort out proper deployments to keep everyone useful and intact. Worst of it is a hill near Egling that apparently will remain magnetized for the next three hundred years or so." You pull one of the skulls from the sack, considering it, and she waves a hand at you. "Take it. Please. I'm going to have to fund an expansion to the Siegfriedhof monitored ossuary as it is."
Gold Patriarch has his head on straight, news at 11. I am curious about how strongly magnetized that hill is, but if they can keep to that level for the worst of the miscasts, that will be great.
And having to expand your Vampire Containment Facility seems like a good sort of problem to have for Roswita. With the Knights of Morr freed up by Templehof being dealt with, that should help with the stalemates against the Strigoi and Lahmians. Looks like Sylvania is doing okay so far.
In your recently-furnished sitting room, you cast an eye over the gathered wizards. "In the past six months, I have weaponized the Hellfire of another race's Hell."
A little overboard on the smug there, Mathilde. She's in a very good mood here.
"I've been working on getting my Flaming Sword cast time down. Shaved about a second and a half off."
That can be a very long time in a fight. And hopefully the Diplomacy bump will help once she decides to go for a second round of trying to get an in with the Engineers' Guild.
"It was more work than I expected."

"Trolls are. When it is time to move against Kvinn-Wyr, it will probably be because we've got a whole bunch of ways to deliver fire on hand. And the rest of your time?"

He probes his side with a wince. "...healing."
Yeah, fighting trolls is something you don't want to do unless you have a really good reason, or an ace up your sleeve. Hint, Hubert: zap it a lot, then kill it while it's recovering from dying of electrocution.
You turn to Max, who's still sulking, and skip right to Johann, who's got one of the wolf-rat pups sitting on his shoulder and grooming his hair and another asleep in his palm. "Johann, apart from our favourite puppies, what's been happening?"
Poor Max. But puppies!
Ooze is... weird, but could be very useful, if it doesn't have icky side-effects.
Panoramia is much happier now that she has access to safe water for the fields.

And... Library! Books make for happy wizards.

[X] [TOWER] Ongoing
I'm kinda interested in the "works at night" option for the tower, but the potential for fortifying it against either sabotage strikes or air attack also is attractive.

[X] [LIBRARY] Plan: Finding the Mines
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
 
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