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Point is, next campaign is likely years away, and the next op big purchase is always around the corner.
What OP purchase do you have in mind? Our talisman and weapon slots are full and we can't use armor. You mentioned a grounding rod that replicates the Oh Dear tower; do you have evidence that such a thing exists? We've got a grounding rod and we've never used it.

Like, if we were saving for something, sure, but we're not, so let's max out every skaven roll we make for the rest of the quest.
 
[X] Plan no favor mines

The issue with the protector is that it takes a certain degree of arrogance and selfishness to pick metaphorical "shinies" over bonuses that help mitigate risk for ourselves or our allies.

If it gave a bonus, even a mild one, to actions consistent with the actions of the protector instead of extra favor, it'd look more attractive.

its very much ment for somone who needs to build rep to get a movment off the ground. We already have, so the only person it would help is us.
 

And next turn when we have that whatever it is that pops up every turn and we are trying to spend the same 2 favor for the same Skaven book because we've spent out allotted favors on book next? There will always be something else we need to spend our allotment on. It won't be "Just one turn." that will turn into "Just one more turn." you can almost count on this being a reoccurring problem every turn. there will always be those that want to spend more than our allotment on something. I respect your opinion on the subject and I can see where for certain things I'd agree with you that the price is not worth the reward. This is not one of those times. I'd rather get this out of the way and benefit from it from now on, than need it and not have it 5 turns from now after it has been debated over and over again from something else bumping it outside of our allotment each time.
 
The issue with the protector is that it takes a certain degree of arrogance and selfishness to pick metaphorical "shinies" over bonuses that help mitigate risk for ourselves or our allies.

If it gave a bonus, even a mild one, to actions consistent with the actions of the protector instead of extra favor, it'd look more attractive.
It's not arrogant and selfish to want your allies to acknowledge your efforts, and in a turn or two we'll be much better positioned to 'mitigate' the 'risk' ourselves, as a teleporting invisible cannonball. It's pretty shitty to use the Night Prowler for assassinations anyway. That's not what the Night Prowler face of Ranald should be for.
 
[X] Plan no favor mines



its very much ment for somone who needs to build rep to get a movment off the ground. We already have, so the only person it would help is us.
If it gets us more favor so people are willing to spend it to get more books for more bonuses to everyone with access to our library it is hard to say it only helps us.
 
[X] Plan no favor mines

What OP purchase do you have in mind? Our talisman and weapon slots are full and we can't use armor. You mentioned a grounding rod that replicates the Oh Dear tower; do you have evidence that such a thing exists? We've got a grounding rod and we've never used it.

Like, if we were saving for something, sure, but we're not, so let's max out every skaven roll we make for the rest of the quest.
  1. Runed Firearms
  2. Dwarf defenses installed into our penthouse
  3. Mathilde's MSAP (Maximum Security Aethyric Penitentiary)
  4. Getting the Dwarfs and Runemasters involved when we inevitably bite the bullet and create a K8P branch of the Colleges
  5. New Tower options available once we grab all the current ones
  6. Gyrocopter training/Gyrocopter Pad/Personal Gyrocopter (I'm pretty sure Boney has acknowledged we could get lessons if we were inclined)
  7. We've never used our grounding rod because we've never miscasted, the possibility that the Dwarfs could make a really good grounding rod is definitely there, and it has value as insurance even if we never use it. Especially now that battle magic is a real possibility.
  8. Heroic tutoring.
And this is off the top of my head. It's really arrogant to assume that we don't have alternative expenditures to consider besides rushing a book.
 
To a degree I agree with this. a system that classes one race as lesser will eventually fail. However, hiring mercs to man your frontline and do the dying for you is what you are paying them for. That's not considering them lesser, you are paying them for a job they offered their services to do. it's a perfectly legitamate tactic to preserve your own standing forces/population. Having the resident human and halfling standing forces man the front line because you want to preserve dwarf lives would be a disaster however. just my opinion.

That's fair. I think, perhaps, a better way to put it would be this: warriors should be committed to the front lines in proportion to the share of the K8P population, and my recommendation is to make it about 10:1 humans/dwarves and have dwarves specialize in thunders/cannon crew.

Dwarves are very good at learning crafts and living long lives: if they refuse to mass produce goods then I'd like to see if they'll teach large numbers consistently. Tell apprentices that they don't know a thing until they can teach it: this will staff schools for humans as dwarven apprentices learn the art of passing on skills. It also lets dwarves preserve secrets as journeymen teach apprentices, and masters teach journeymen, so knowledge is well tiered.

A steady stream of dwarf-taught humans could lead to an Outpost of civilization that really would rival anything from the war of the beard, and I think 40,000 dwarves/25,000 halflings/400,000 humans would be sufficient to capture, fortify, and fill the entirety of K8P.

But really, the thing that gives me hope that this'll work is Kragg- his impulsive use of a rune of dwarven brotherhood on a very magically mutable race seems like the start of a giant, semi-intentional experiment in creating a sub-race of humans. If we can feed that rune vitae, and use it regularly enough that every human in K8P has experienced it once or twice in their lives, then I think there can be enough shared empathy that the population really sees itself as one group. (Halflings and spiders included by virtue of 'other races can be part of us' opened by human/dwarf blurring.)
 
But really, the thing that gives me hope that this'll work is Kragg- his impulsive use of a rune of dwarven brotherhood on a very magically mutable race seems like the start of a giant, semi-intentional experiment in creating a sub-race of humans. If we can feed that rune vitae, and use it regularly enough that every human in K8P has experienced it once or twice in their lives, then I think there can be enough shared empathy that the population really sees itself as one group. (Halflings and spiders included by virtue of 'other races can be part of us' opened by human/dwarf blurring.)
We really should see about an option to look into that at some point because reasons.

And also investigate cats.
 
  1. Runed Firearms
  2. Dwarf defenses installed into our penthouse
  3. Mathilde's MSAP (Maximum Security Aethyric Penitentiary)
  4. Getting the Dwarfs and Runemasters involved when we inevitably bite the bullet and create a K8P branch of the Colleges
  5. New Tower options available once we grab all the current ones
  6. Gyrocopter training/Gyrocopter Pad/Personal Gyrocopter (I'm pretty sure Boney has acknowledged we could get lessons if we were inclined)
  7. We've never used our grounding rod because we've never miscasted, the possibility that the Dwarfs could make a really good grounding rod is definitely there, and it has value as insurance even if we never use it. Especially now that battle magic is a real possibility.
  8. Heroic tutoring.
Is there reason to believe that we want any of this soon? Like, (2) we're getting next turn, we budgeted for that, but besides that. (3) is redundant with (2). (1) is expensive and impractical; we know that firearms don't rune well - here's a citation.
Not much beyond reliability, accuracy, damage, flaming bullets. Five/ten/fifteen favours to put it on the bench and have someone that's the closest thing Runesmiths have to 'radical' take their best swing at it, and it won't be as dramatic as the equivalent amount of favours in a more traditional weapon.
Towers don't cost many Favours; most we've seen is 5. Gyrocopter pad didn't cost money or favour, and we're not about to spend actions to learn how to fly one, that is laughable.

Heroic tutoring I will grant could be neat, but again, we're really crunched for actions with our research backlog, so I don't see that happening any time soon.
And this is off the top of my head. It's really arrogant to assume that we don't have alternative expenditures to consider besides rushing a book.
I've been reading every post of this thread for weeks. Nobody's been trying to get people to support a "let's save our favours for this big thing" plan. It's not arrogant to say that no such plan exists when the evidence bears that out.
 
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At some point, if the trend continues, the Magisters trying to teach this thing to their apprentices are going to have to throw back their heads and screech 'MMAAAAAAPP' like a Pterodactyl in order to get the name right.

Nominally. You know, if they could ever manage to work together. Which, outside of the end times, just isn't a thing; that's why all their ridiculous prowess gets handwaved away in the first place. It's like saying Bugs Bunny could destroy the world because he can rearrange all the stars in the sky.

Fucking lol that made me almost bust a gut at my desk this morning. *imagines strodgy grey beard academics screeching like ancient terror birds* Pfffffft.

[ ] [TOWER] Ongoing

I want to see Belegar's reaction when we tell him, "The tower can currently move the sun so anybody can use the controls to direct the nega-fire of Gazul practically anywhere they want. It'll be great once it's finished."

D'you think we can get a spit-take?
I'd love to see a Dwarf version of a spit take.

...Khazalid equivalent of "picking out wedding rings"?
I like that dual meaning and it is now canon.


With his hair hacked down except for a single stripe down the center, the Dwarf will now make the long trip to Karak Kadrin to complete the ceremony that dedicates a Dwarf to the seeking of death in battle. Any Dwarf in the Karaz Ankor would give him food and a night's shelter, and transport if they're going in the direction of the Slayer Keep. It's not necessarily part of the ceremony, as far as you understand. It's more of a symbol of the Oath they intend to take, to show the Clan they think they've dishonoured that he intends to set things right.
I wonder how Dwarves handled Slayerhood before the establishment of Ungrim's line of Slayer Kings, and Karak Kadrin becoming famous as The Slayer Keep. Its not a section of the lore I'm all that familiar with.

"Karag Lhune was once a quiet corner of the Karak," he says as the two of you walk out of the now-empty Hall, King Belegar's bodyguard shadowing you as unobtrusively as a fully-armoured Dwarf can be. "Filled with the odds bits-and-pieces that couldn't quite fit in the more-populated Mhonar or Rhyn or Zilfin. Temples, airship docks, the school and apprentice barracks, an overflow vault. Now the entire Dwarven population of Karak Eight Peaks fits into the Chiselwards, and could quadruple before we'd need to start excavating new rooms."
And this points out another issue. When we conquer the other peaks the dwarves are going to be spread very thing. Split that current "We could quadruple before needing to excavate" across five more peaks and you get a twentieth. If they spread out they would be spread. Which is pretty depressing on its own to contemplate.

On the other hand if the worst disaster comes and all Order forces north of Black Fire Pass fall to the End of the World Karak Eight Peaks reclaimed would be a good final bastion for the Dwarf race. Which is morbid as fuck, but its another way to look at it.

You remain silent. If you were honest, you'd have to admit to having had similar thoughts. Only one in four Dwarven children were women, and it was a rare woman that would have more than four children, and she would usually be approaching her hundredth year by the time she does so. That was an awkward fit into a world where greenskins and Skaven and the forces of Chaos and other, more esoteric threats applied a constant attrition.
Others have mentioned this and it isn't really soluble in our life time. Or Belegar's normal Dwarf lifetime. If he decides to outstubborn death itself then he might see it turn around. But really what he's doing here is set up for any eventual children he has.

The Norgrimlings were comfortable in Zhufbar.
Hmm? Oh? Are these guys the Ironbreakers and Irondrakes native to K8P @Boney?

I ask because we were waiting on getting some of both of those before moving on to the next peak.

He remains silent for a while, and then exhales. "It's true. Their reconnection to the Karaz Ankor might not be possible any other way. But I find it difficult to find satisfaction in their Karak when my own is so diminished, and will never be otherwise in my lifetime."
*hugs Belegar*

I'm pretty dang sure we'll figure it out.

The tidings you bear are not related to the Empress, but they're certainly good. For the second time in a year you make your way into Algard's office, and though his table is as clear as ever, the two added pocket dimensions indicate that paperwork may have been piling up while he was engaged in tower-related business in Eight Peaks. "Trouble with the tower?" he asks distractedly, squinting at a parchment covered in numbers.
Oops? :V

A small smile twitches in the corner of his mouth. "The kind that would have been very bad news, except it ends with 'and you took care of it'?"

"Don't know where you'd get that idea." You take a seat across from him. "I speak, of course, of a full-blown Skaven civil war."

After a moment of thought, he sets the parchment down, and the dimensions of the desk wrinkle for a heartbeat as the parchment slides in the opposite direction of reality and out of sight. "You have my attention."
Lol.

"I've taken a cooperative Clan Moulder prisoner. He seems to still be loyal to the Clan in general, but he ended up on the wrong side of a leadership dispute so he's got no direct ties, and the rest of Clan Moulder got wiped out that day so there's no mundane way the Skaven would know I have him."

"'Mundane'. Good qualifier."

"Thank you. He says, and I believe him to be telling the truth as he understands it, that Clan Pestilens and their subordinates made a play for control once more, and this time Clan Mors sided with them. They've failed but there's been no intercession by the one in charge, so the other Clans are scrambling to finish the job and grab what they can in anticipation that when it does, it'll call a halt to hostilities."
Heh. Also interesting how they're not referring to the Horned Rat by name. Probably same kinda deal as the Chaos Gods names.

"Pestilens, the rest of the Brotherhood, and Mors..." he leans back and stares into space, muttering to himself. "Shame we're only hearing about it in the aftermath, but still... Mousillon, Bastonne. The current Ambassador's a good egg, I'll have a word in his ear. As for here... Ubersreik, of course. And Nuln..." He refocuses on you. "This might be worth having a poke at the Conspiracy of Silence. I'll have a little word with people who'll have a little word with people. If it all ends in disaster pray you never hear a word of it again, but if everything goes as it should this might be a nice little feather in your cap. Needless to say, if your guest spills anything else of interest I want to hear about it."

"Of course, Lord Patriarch," you say with a smile.

He returns it. "You've become quite a credit to the College. Keep it up, young Magister."
EEEEEEE HEADPAT!

A boss headpat too! Exquisite!

The first piece is a rebuttal to Preliminary Observations on the Eusocial Cave Spider, and you frown at the opinionated Amber with a lot of opinions on where the line is drawn between sociality and eusociality, and is quite firmly convinced that the We must fall short of the latter. You flip through the other pages present, and find a counterrebuttal from Esbern and Seija that quite thoroughly puncture the debate presented on its merits without having to bring the We into it at all, which you imagine would be quite necessary with them being somewhere within the forests of the Empire.
And this is another good reason to have fleshed out characters from the Colleges! They can be used by Boney to rebut dumbasses!

Thanks you two!

You flip through a number of reports on attempts at adapting the MAP to other winds, and apart from the Bright College it seems that all attempts were dismal failures, seemingly because their own Winds don't have the natural inclination to flow and pool. But then you flip further and find a sparse few paragraphs in which a Bright College Lord Magister guts your spell, replaces its innards with a few simple flourishes, and sends it on its way, simplified enough for any Apprentice to cast. Following that is eight near-identical letters informing you that your spell has been added to the curricula of all eight Colleges.

[+10 College Favour from Mathilde's MAPP being developed and added to the curricula of the Colleges]
Eeeeee. I am in gleeeeee. I am going to be quite chuffed and pleased when we eveeeeentually get an apprentice and can teach them with this.

Also whoever said they'd fill the halls with 3d porn is entirely accurate and we may well have just precipitated the creation of Hentai: Wizard Version.

She fakes a gag. "Perish the thought. But I'm liking the theme. Leopold's out, not giving the Unfähigers a foothold. Probably be a bit too on-the-nose to go with Sigmar, wouldn't it?"
Hmm I don't know that family name. Possibly Ulricians?

Unfortunately you didn't come all the way to Nuln just to see how much you could make the Princess blush, so after fishing for as many juicy details as she's willing to give, you take her on a jaunt across the border and up the road to Blutdorf. Sadly you've other business elsewhere and can't linger long enough to properly catch up to Anton, but you can make introductions. As the ruler of Blutdorf, he can spread word and vouch for the offer, and as a well-liked figure in local nobility, he can make even further introductions to spread an even further net. And not least of all, he can act as the local node of the EIC to funnel the actually rather stupendous amount of underworked, underpaid, or adventurous weavers within the EIC's sphere of influence that they've gathered the information of.
Kek.

Huh, looks like we rolled good on getting weavers, but Edda got a bleh trait out of it.

Oh, she operates fine as an ambassador, a representative speaking on behalf of a Dwarven Kingdom, but she doesn't seem to understand how humans operate on every level, and seems limited to speaking her request and seeing what happens, and if she gets any result but acquiescence she's lost. It's not a matter of any sort of dislike, as far as you can tell - you and her get on fine, and you're not just a human but a wizard. It's just that as an administrator, she's used to Dwarves, who can almost always be predicted and when something goes wrong, it's usually in a fairly predictable way. You imagine it must be something like a champion sheepdog being expected to run herd on a cat farm.

Normally it would never be a problem for a Dwarven Princess, but Karak Izor's gambit to put her within marrying range of King Belegar had put her in control of a sizeable and growing human population. Troubling. You tuck away your newly-won insights and move on.
Honestly she's tracking okay at the moment, but I think we should point the problem out to Belegar and suggest Kazrik. It means sticking them together and he's better suited for it going by his traits and his nat 100 on learning Reikspiel that got him those traits. They'd make a great team even if they never become a couple.

And it means giving Karak Azul ties to Karak Izor which was pointed out in this section to have ties to Tilea and Estalia. More places for them to see!

"They're like cats!" Roswita shouts, waving her arms out the window of the briefing room in the general direction of the battlefields of Sylvania. "Every day, someone with fire instead of hair or surrounded by birds or a skull instead of a face wanders in and drops off a Vampire skull or the head of some forest mutant or a cartload of bones and I say thank you and they act like I've thrown a party and named my firstborn after them, and they go off to find something even worse to drag back! Look what they did to my table!"
Oh my god they're like Mathilde.

Oh god.

Pffffffffffffft. *too funny*

Look what they did to my table!"

You consider the small sapling protruding from the wood of the table, its small green leaves stretching towards the window. "I see."
Hahahahaha. Also symbolic.

"I was expecting, I don't know, fire, floods, plague, having to repopulate Sylvania from scratch. Not this... weirdness! Part of Tempelhof got destroyed, and some of them rebuilt it, but refused to rebuild the roofs because 'why would they want the stars obstructed?' and they had to be led away to go bother the Strigoi."
Okay that's kinda cute, and also depressing.

Not building roofs since they're so used to them being overhead.

She subsides and scowls before admitting it. "Yes, and their Primar came all the way here and said if we keep away the Vampires and the wizards, they'll pay taxes and accept whatever authority I put over them. Still got Strigoi and Lahmians to deal with, and it's a stalemate on both fronts so far, but so far there's been nothing unexpected."
"Please! Don't let them come back! We'll happily serve! Just keep the Doom Cat Dorks away!"

Well that's one way to do it. :V

In your recently-furnished sitting room, you cast an eye over the gathered wizards. "In the past six months, I have weaponized the Hellfire of another race's Hell."

Thoughtful silence greets you. "You can do that?" Adela finally asks, intrigued.
Goddamit Mathilde, opening like this just isn't fucking fair lol.

Setting a great example though.

He smiles. "I killed a troll."

You consider that. "...why?" He stares at you. "Okay, let me unroll that. While sorting out the trolls in Kvinn-Wyr is definitely an entry on the long-term list, there's a lot of things above it. What made you seek out a troll?"
Hmm. *hand to chin*

*ear marks him for the future conquest of Kvyn-Wyr*

I mean he already has experience, unlike the other two. And he's still alive so... *shrugs*

"Picking through the ruins of Clan Moulder," she says, without a hint of self-consciousness.

"That'd explain it. Anything beyond monetary wealth, which I as a Grey Wizard am immune to the allure of?"
I wonder how hard their bullshit detectors just went off when they can just think about her library and how expensive it would have to be.

and skip right to Johann, who's got one of the wolf-rat pups sitting on his shoulder and grooming his hair and another asleep in his palm. "Johann, apart from our favourite puppies, what's been happening?"
Oohaawmigawd *eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*

I want to see this as art. It is too pure, too beautiful for this world.

Kyut.

"Still stalled on the damn ra- uh, the you-know-what, but I've been working with Panoramia with the ooze we found. It can digest just about anything organic and turn it into... well, more of itself. We're feeding it to some of the cattle and they seem to like it okay, we're up to three months without ill effects at half their diet."
Uh huh. That's rather weird.

"With all the water we could need, I've set up some ponds up against Lhune for the Black Lotuses." She frowns. "Loti?"

"Lotuses," Johann says.

"Loti," Maximilian disagrees.

"Old Reikspiel root, so it pluralizes as loti," Adela says with a satisfied smile.
Pff. Nerds.

If I'm not around, find Wolf and ask him to let you in. It's on this floor, other end of the hallway, to get into the Collegiate section Dispel the lock and replace it on your way out - you all know Dispel and Magic Lock?"
Eeee! Wolf Librarian!

Five yes, one no. Oh, Celestial College. Why must you- well, actually, that one makes sense. No need for locks with prognostication enchantments to prevent thievery. "You've got a one-month grace period where I let you in and out, Hubert. Scrolls are under Sevir, take what you need with you when you leave but return it in good condition or I'm sending a stern letter to your Magister."
Hahahaha, you just played yourself Mathilde.

As for the vote.

[X] [TOWER] Ongoing
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.

Gotta get all those rough edges offfff~ *singsong*

And I'm completely okay with letting the library sort itself out amongst you folks.
 
For all the prospective social engineers over there: that's not our job.

It could be, but we voted against it. Currently, we have neither the tools nor the time to guide the human integration.
 
  1. Runed Firearms
  2. Dwarf defenses installed into our penthouse
  3. Mathilde's MSAP (Maximum Security Aethyric Penitentiary)
  4. Getting the Dwarfs and Runemasters involved when we inevitably bite the bullet and create a K8P branch of the Colleges
  5. New Tower options available once we grab all the current ones
  6. Gyrocopter trainings/Gyrocopter Pad/Personal Gyrocopter (I'm pretty sure Boney has acknowledged we could get lessons if we were inclined)
  7. We've never used our grounding rod because we've never miscasted, the possibility that the Dwarfs could make a really good grounding rod is definitely there, and it has value as insurance even if we never use it. Especially now that battle magic is a real possibility.
1. Couldn't we just get them enchanted at the college? Runes don't seem like that much of an improvement in guns when compared to swords.
2. 3. Aren't these the same thing? If not, we've already voted against 3.
4. I don't think this is inevitable. If it happens any time in the next 15 turns, I will eat my hat.
5. We don't actually know the tower options and how much they would require favor. Books may be worth more.
6. We aren't so inclined. Why would we ever want gyrocopter training or even a personal gyrocopter? I can't think of a realistic scenario where this would happen.
7. Or we could spend our much more abundant college favor on another grounding rod. We already have the insurance. The colleges are also better in magic when compared to the dwarves.

I don't disagree that we need to be more careful in favor spending, but honestly most of the things you've mentioned is something I consider even less useful than getting a permanent bonus. Tell me why I should care about these options. Don't argue that we should keep our favor around just because the options are there.

I actually genuinely think it might be a good idea to just spend some college favor to upgrade our guns. Don't go too specific, just spend a bit of favor, give a basic description of what we want and let a master supply us with our needs.
 
Hmm I don't know that family name. Possibly Ulricians?
Nah, canon emperor after Magnus the Pious.
Honestly she's tracking okay at the moment, but I think we should point the problem out to Belegar and suggest Kazrik. It means sticking them together and he's better suited for it going by his traits and his nat 100 on learning Reikspiel that got him those traits. They'd make a great team even if they never become a couple.

And it means giving Karak Azul ties to Karak Izor which was pointed out in this section to have ties to Tilea and Estalia. More places for them to see!
Yeah, I think this would work.
Okay that's kinda cute, and also depressing.

Not building roofs since they're so used to them being overhead.
i hadn't considered that until you brought it up and now i have The Sad.
 
The issue with the protector is that it takes a certain degree of arrogance or selfishness to pick metaphorical "shinies" over bonuses that help mitigate risk for ourselves or our allies.

If it gave a bonus, even a mild one, to actions consistent with the aspect of the protector instead of extra favor, it'd look more attractive.
It does. We get to decide what they are, even. We just call them favors.

Favors let us: degrade the level of a miscast, dispel a spell automatically including battlemagic once per encounter, become immune to Dhar and immune to fire, hit at strength ten, gain the potential to develop a style of combat that becomes more powerful the more experience our opponent has instead of less, and build random esoteric tower-based apocalypse weapons.

We just have to use them beforehand. The Protector is just as powerful as all the other faces of the coin, so long as we use it correctly. It gives us momentum. It lets us turn one success into more successes elsewhere. And it would certainly have been more useful than the Nightprowler was, considering that the moment we started tearing apart their social structures it basically fizzled out.
Couldn't we just get them enchanted at the college? Runes don't seem like that much of an improvement in guns when compared to swords.
Teeny tiny artillery runes would be so much better, and create less dhar.
 
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Hmm? Oh? Are these guys the Ironbreakers and Irondrakes native to K8P @Boney?

I ask because we were waiting on getting some of both of those before moving on to the next peak.

Norgrimlings were largely Ironbreakers, but their armour and weapons they used were property of Zhufbar, not the Clan. Bronzefists aren't quite as skilled but are better equipped, but not quite to Ironbreaker level.
 
And it would certainly have been more useful than the Nightprowler was, considering that the moment we started tearing apart their social structures it basically fizzled out.
To be maximally fair to the people who voted No Change, the chief argument wasn't "we want Night Prowler now," it was "we want Gambler next turn," and because we had Gambler we got Battle Magic.

...to be honest, though, I think I would have preferred Protector's Favour gains over Smoke and Mirrors, at least in the right now.
Teeny tiny artillery runes would be so much better, and create less dhar.
Runesmiths don't really rune up guns. I think enchanted guns are likely to be more effective than runed guns, assuming Favour expenditure at parity. Boney talked about the issues with getting runic guns, which I dug up and included in a post on the last page if you want the citation.
 
Norgrimlings were largely Ironbreakers, but their armour and weapons they used were property of Zhufbar, not the Clan. Bronzefists aren't quite as skilled but are better equipped, but not quite to Ironbreaker level.
Ah! Eeee. Good stuff.
Am excited for Dwarf Ironbreaker shenanigans.

I'm pretty sure that's just a celestial who doesn't get that not everyone is as into stargazing as they are.
We can only hope yeah.
 
1. Couldn't we just get them enchanted at the college? Runes don't seem like that much of an improvement in guns when compared to swords.
2. 3. Aren't these the same thing? If not, we've already voted against 3.
4. I don't think this is inevitable. If it happens any time in the next 15 turns, I will eat my hat.
5. We don't actually know the tower options and how much they would require favor. Books may be worth more.
6. We aren't so inclined. Why would we ever want gyrocopter training or even a personal gyrocopter? I can't think of a realistic scenario where this would happen.
7. Or we could spend our much more abundant college favor on another grounding rod. We already have the insurance. The colleges are also better in magic when compared to the dwarves.
  1. That wasn't the point, we could definitely enchant our own handguns if we want to but it's entirely possible we want Dwarf Runes, especially since they have a lot more experience magically enhancing range weapons then the Colleges do
  2. One is to prevent someone from breaking into our place, the other is to prevent our guest from getting up to shit. Considering Boney is making rolls for the latter already they are absolutely different and it's liable we're going to do something with the prison soon
  3. Really? What else do you think we're going to spend the Great Deed on and I doubt it will take us 10 turns to reach Lord Magister. Your opinion is noted as just that
  4. That's a big if, especially since the trade off isn't books versus towers, it's books now versus towers. We can still easily get the books by waiting a turn. Compare the hundreds of words I've spent listing other uses for Dwarf favor and the scant few I've seen explaining why there's something that makes Antiquarian Skaven picks anything but a super obvious pick next turn and thus demanding our personal favor
  5. Possibilities man, we're not always going to be Loremaster, and that potentially opens up options for our ducklings and subordinates. Regardless I'm listing alternatives, the onus isn't exactly on me to argue why the thread should vote for them.
  6. Destroying magic is literally what the Dwarfs do best. I'm going to want to see a WoG that Dwarfs couldn't have anything to contribute when it comes to a grounding rod. Your unsupported opinion is not inspiring a lot of confidence right now.
Like Quest- I don't care about half these options for all that I think your opinion on a few of them is wrong. What I care about is the fixation on this one immediate percentile bonus over a plethora of possibilities explored or otherwise. Grabbing the stupid Skaven book is only spending 2 favors to get what we'd almost certainly get anyways next turn now. I don't value 1% over 1 turn anywhere near that much and nothing anyone has said has convinced me otherwise.

Is there reason to believe that we want any of this soon? Like, (2) we're getting next turn, we budgeted for that, but besides that. (3) is redundant with (2). (1) is expensive and impractical; we know that firearms don't rune well - here's a citation.
Is there a reason 1% over 1 turn is worth 2 favor? As for firearms, even if it takes 15 favor to get something worth 12 or 10- that would still be an incredible piece by most standards. Especially because we have multiple firearms, we very well might want them enchanted to do different things.

I'm not advocating any of these options I'm saying we've hardly tapped the possibilities of Dwarf favors and assuming otherwise is arrogant. It doesn't necessarily matter that there's no plan that immediately calls for it because possibilities appearing out of the blue happen. We just spent 10 College Favors out of the blue because we just realized holy shit Algard would be a huge help here. A use em' or lose em' attitude has no real benefits at this point.
 
Speaking as someone who's given this a fair amount of thought: That's certainly an end, but there's no reason for Ulthuan to stop there when extending its trading net allows it to exercise soft power across... Most of the Old World, honestly.
Yeah. For the life of me, I cannot figure out what in the hell the High Elves gain from giving Marienburg a monopoly on all of Ulthuan's trade to the Old World.

The High Elves have all the leverage, and yet they basically give up lucrative trade and soft power/influence with all of the Old World in exchange for...nothing at all. Fucking what.
 
If we are going to rune our guns... and that just sounds weird, or enchant them, I suggest we get an extra one and get them done one at a time. that way we will always be fully armed.
 
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