Ain't that the Madokami's honest truth.

( but it was a shout-ooooooout. Eh, nevermind. )
*Insert "I understood that reference" meme here*

Though to be fair, he/she got reincarnated in the equivalent of Imperial Germany, at the time of WWI. No nazi around yet.

Whatever we end up doing, a possible thing to consider would be creating a magical network or something similar (maybe with the help of Idontrememberhername the building-controller). It would need trust and cooperation between the parties involved (it is a shortcut from another territory to the heart of another after all, and on our side we'll be creating a pathway to the city where our friends live), but it could surely help with the logistics of our trips to others, or others visits to us, quick evacuation in case of emergencies, etc.
 
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just had a thought, not right now, but next time we do some SCIENCE! we should try to figure out how much potential energy grief has. like take a chunk of grief, weigh it, use it to output as much energy as we safely can for a few minutes while we are doing other stuff. and then weigh it again. see if it actually loses mass at all and if it does how much, cause the last time we tried something similar, what with using primary luce as well as when we caused grief to create fire we noticed it didn't seem to be shrinking noticeably
 
just had a thought, not right now, but next time we do some SCIENCE! we should try to figure out how much potential energy grief has. like take a chunk of grief, weigh it, use it to output as much energy as we safely can for a few minutes while we are doing other stuff. and then weigh it again. see if it actually loses mass at all and if it does how much, cause the last time we tried something similar, what with using primary luce as well as when we caused grief to create fire we noticed it didn't seem to be shrinking noticeably
I am almost positive that even if grief was consumed by emitting energy, that no safe quantity of energy release would consume a measurable quantity, due to the fact that grief needs to have a high enough scale of energy density to be worthwhile for the Incubators to use it to offset entropy on at minimum a civilization scale.
 
I am almost positive that even if grief was consumed by emitting energy, that no safe quantity of energy release would consume a measurable quantity, due to the fact that grief needs to have a high enough scale of energy density to be worthwhile for the Incubators to use it to offset entropy on at minimum a civilization scale.
safe in what measure? I'm pretty sure we could pump a pretty massive amount if joules worth of primary Luce into space without too much collateral damage.
like if my calculations/assumptions are correct and grief is a perfect fuel source, converting all mass into energy in a way that standard physics should allow for
(even though its already been shown that "its magic I don't got to explain shit")
then there should be 90,000,000,000,000,000 Joules worth of energy in a kilogram of grief
which means we should need to expend about 90 gigajoules to reduce the mass we have by 1 miligram.
that may seem like a ludicrous amount but it really isn't, its about the power released by completely burning 30 barrels of oil
we should be able to output that much energy without boiling the atmosphere or causing a satellite to be cleft in twain and all from orbit
 
safe in what measure? I'm pretty sure we could pump a pretty massive amount if joules worth of primary Luce into space without too much collateral damage.
like if my calculations/assumptions are correct and grief is a perfect fuel source, converting all mass into energy in a way that standard physics should allow for
(even though its already been shown that "its magic I don't got to explain shit")
then there should be 90,000,000,000,000,000 Joules worth of energy in a kilogram of grief
which means we should need to expend about 90 gigajoules to reduce the mass we have by 1 miligram.
that may seem like a ludicrous amount but it really isn't, its about the power released by completely burning 30 barrels of oil
we should be able to output that much energy without boiling the atmosphere or causing a satellite to be cleft in twain and all from orbit
First off, you're applying mass measures to something that doesn't have mass unless willed to have mass.

And second, in order to be worthwhile at the scale the Incubators are operating at, you would need far greater energy densities than you're assuming.

Third, why the hell would you assume that magic is doing anything like obeying standard physics, when the entire point of magic is that it doesn't.

For an example of how fundamental of an error in basic thinking you're making, allow me to quote the QM on the topic of magic and physics:

Magic exists.

In series, conservation of momentum and kinetic energy, for one, are already visibly broken. The laws of thermodynamics as we formulate therm are already broken. The Witching out of a meguca may or may not generate sufficient energy to significantly impact entropy: but it visibly and demonstrably does generate energy in the form of the mass of the Witch and a pocket universe.

Physics as we know them is already out of the window. Some of the most fundamental tenets of physics are broken.

Time travel is possible.

Causality is broken.

Why privilege the cosmological principle?

Also, a fun bonus for people wondering about the scope of the quest:

Indeed it is, yes.

But entropy and the nature of the PMMM universe in specific detail isn't particularly necessary. I constructed my own reasoning and thoughts behind it out of curiosity and as a thought exercise, but it isn't necessary to the plot, which is why I've never even alluded to it in thread.
Entropy and cosmology? Not plot-relevant. If your intended planning for the quest requires addressing topics tied to either of those, you're flying away from the plot.
 
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[X] Political reasoning:
[X] We need plans to discover the truth of Tokyo on our subsequent visits, including the complications of lying or concealment.
[X] Is our position concerned with ruling or leading others? Are all of our interests in Tokyo simply summed as save lives, and be good?
-[X] The most important action for us, after protecting our lives and freedoms, is to clearly understand what we could about who we are interacting with - in this case Chiyoda Group and the many other girls in Tokyo.
--[X] What is their overall intent, and how do they want to get it?
-[X] WE can be specific - will they allow the citizens of their city to gain free cleansing in ANY way, or not?
--[X] When offered a chance to act better, will they?
--[X] You're doing this to facilitate a kinder world, not dictate precisely how it comes about.
--[X] Ultimately, clear seeds are a macguffin, and if the needs of preventing fighting over those macguffins are untenable for Tokyo then you can offer something else instead.
-- [X] You have ideas for how to pass out cleansing without clear seeds, e.g. grief seed exchanges, and if it comes down to it, you could cleanse as a stopgap solution while they argue on what's best and how they'd need to adapt.
-[X] On the topic of recruitment:
--[x] Should we recruit from Tokyo, should we try to draw immigrants from their population? Ask Homura to estimate the time we would need for everyone to get used to working together? What's should our deadlines for recruitment be, in other words?
-[x] Admit your brochure envy: You kind of want to crib from Tokyo and make a primer for introducing girls to Mitakihara.
[x] Vote in abeyance

Basing this off of @The Phoenixian Mixing in an insight I consider to be more fundamental. Working forward from principles, and not skipping a step, which is my problem with the "police debate."
My intent is that we should try not to commit to a solution, if we have a chance to understand the facts. We are missing key facts.

That chance strongly exists - if we use it properly.
We might try meeting with other Tokyo girls, because past events inform our judgment regarding trust. Chiyoda / Akane have likely done some things I would rather they didn't. What we don't know yet is their emotions regarding change. Do they want the world to remain dangerous for everyone? Can they be satisfied in a future without Hard Choices? That is what our philosophy, and our 'economic' support changes most - we will eliminate the need to choose who lives and dies entirely, while regulating the neighbor's magic, even holding borders, become "wasted effort." If one has built a "personality" around the old lifestyle, can they freely give that up? I recall Akiko...
 
[X] Herocycle
Entropy and cosmology? Not plot-relevant. If your intended planning for the quest requires addressing topics tied to either of those, you're flying away from the plot.
you know what? you're right, I took a step back and thought about why exactly I want to do this kind of research, and I found I don't really have a reason that survives scrutiny other than "because science is cool" cause I sort of thought that if we understood this stuff we might be able to buy out the incubators, or at least placate them, but that doesn't really survive, cause we know that 1) they are greedy bastards, and 2) knowing this kind of stuff wouldn't make that easier
 
[X] Herocycle

you know what? you're right, I took a step back and thought about why exactly I want to do this kind of research, and I found I don't really have a reason that survives scrutiny other than "because science is cool" cause I sort of thought that if we understood this stuff we might be able to buy out the incubators, or at least placate them, but that doesn't really survive, cause we know that 1) they are greedy bastards, and 2) knowing this kind of stuff wouldn't make that easier
There is a level at which we could buy them off: Approximately one Kreimhild Gretchen, as her potential energy from her grief as a witch exceeds the projected total output of the entire remainder of the human populace for its entire projected remaining lifespan by so many orders of magnitude that it makes the rest of the Earth superfluous; if it didn't, Kyubey wouldn't have been so blase about her destroying it, because like you said: Kyubey is greedy. Enough is good, but more is better, so he wouldn't throw away anything that he could get unless it was truly insignificant in comparison.

Naturally, generating that much energy without sacrificing human souls would pretty much require planetary-level zero-point energy generation, which is probably beyond the scope of the quest.
 
You wouldn't need to measure energy needed to burn off a particular amount of grief, you could just turn a 1mm sphere into witch stuff, then increase it's mass until you can't anymore. That would give you the mass-energy per unit volume of grief.

Alternatively, keep using smaller and smaller amounts of grief to make a 1kg object until you don't have enough to complete the transition.

Small enough experiment to be a little side tangent if anyone cares enough to satisfy their curiosity, but still probably not worth the distraction. Putting hard numbers on things is probably a bad idea, anyway.
 
There is a level at which we could buy them off: Approximately one Kreimhild Gretchen, as her potential energy from her grief as a witch exceeds the projected total output of the entire remainder of the human populace for its entire projected remaining lifespan by so many orders of magnitude that it makes the rest of the Earth superfluous; if it didn't, Kyubey wouldn't have been so blase about her destroying it, because like you said: Kyubey is greedy. Enough is good, but more is better, so he wouldn't throw away anything that he could get unless it was truly insignificant in comparison.

Naturally, generating that much energy without sacrificing human souls would pretty much require planetary-level zero-point energy generation, which is probably beyond the scope of the quest.
even if we give them a UKG amount of grief, then they will STILL try to contract madoka, because why only settle for one?
 
Going to have to do some rereading to make sure, but I think we've wrapped up politics pretty well. Mark me down for

[X] Proceed with vote in abeyance
 
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