"Alright, fine, you got me. So here's the deal on Feathers--"

"[...]However, we also have to take into account pycnofibers may in fact be derived from a feature of the common ancestor of
Pterosauria
and Dinosauria due to similarities in structure of pycnofibers and protofeathers as described by Benton et al as opposes to being merely convergent evolution, which would also further complicates the possible timeline of feather evolution [...]"
 
[x] Discuss the politics of Tokyo!
-[x] Hitomi and Madoka's thoughts on the matter. Focus on how any possibilities will influence your first meetings. If you have too many ideas focus on Most likely case, Worst Case and Most Dangerous Cause.
- [X] Also Specifically figure out what you know, and what you DON'T know and what you wish you knew and what you NEED to know. This makes questions to answer that can shape our approach to negotiations and what to look for longer term. The need to know become priority intelligence needs.
[x] Dinner!
[x] What do you do afterwards?
- [x] Check out the IRCs again
- [x] If the room we go to is Japanese see what THEY think of Tokyo using the questions made above. For groups outside Japan or those that don't deal with Tokyo get a general feel for how the group attached the IRC is in terms of location, general personality (aggressive, friendly etc) and situation (desperate, well off, under attack by rival meguca etc)


[L33T] Save any Meguca groups in dire straits via midnight raid in stealth fortress.
 
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"Oh, yeah," Sayaka says, motioning towards the table. "I made a few proper copies of your control enchantment. And I copied the booster, too."

"Ah, thanks!" you say. "Seriously, thanks."

"Yeah, yeah," Sayaka says, waving it off. "'s what I'm here for."
An angeru! :[

More seriously, a thought.

Power copying is a solid result for Sayaka's wish. It's a super teamwork power. But other they setting even more power behind Sabrina, it doesn't do all that much to actually help Homura and Madoka, especially emotionally or in the sense of life goals and self-worth, where we need the most help by far.

What if Sayaka's copying power is actually secondary, the way Mami's ribbons are a secondary result of her wish to be tied to life?

I think that the direct result of Sayaka's wish may have literally been the power to help. Not in any symbolic or roundabout manner with a powerful ability, but a power whispering in her ear exactly what to do to help her friends.

I'm not sure what we'd observe to falsify this. Sayaka not having a suggestion for how to help with something? That said, I think we can probably build evidence for it being more likely than alternatives. I think the big thing would be observing Sayaka acting on information that she couldn't have except by being contessa-lite? So... mostly indistinguishable from the "unconsciously an angel" hypothesis, I guess. Especially because I've heard proposals saying they wishes are, effectively, granted by the magical girl's over-arching universal soul, and it'd be easy for Sayaka's soul to implement an "always know how to help" power by just quietly leaking information to her as necessary.

(Which, of course would mean that it's not just Sayaka that's on board with MadoHomu - it's literally every Sayaka in every reality ever.)
 
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anyway

umm so I made a vote, anyone want to discuss it?

I mean its a simple vote but I was just trying to focus on the political analysis
 
We doing my vote with a better IRC portion - more focus on the local groups


[x] Discuss the politics of Tokyo!
-[x] Hitomi and Madoka's thoughts on the matter. Focus on how any possibilities will influence your first meetings relative to your goals of future such as clear seed distribution. If you have too many ideas focus on Most likely case, Worst Case and Most Dangerous Cause.
- [X] Also Specifically figure out what you know, and what you DON'T know and what you wish you knew and what you NEED to know. This makes questions to answer that can shape our approach to negotiations and what to look for longer term. The need to know become priority intelligence needs.
[x] Dinner!
[x] What do you do afterwards?
- [x] Check out the IRCs again
- [x] With #nyantokanyaru see if we can hash out when and where to meet them. Homura wished to get their help for Walpurgisnacht and they may be able to help act as a clear seed distributor. We can also ask them about what they know of Iowa, with a focus towards previously identified gaps. Be forthright with the facts such as the current experimental nature of clear seeds.
- [x] If we have time check on #milesgloriosus and see if we can talk to any of the other girls on the server we have yet to meet. General introductions for them, nice, friendly, and honest. Get an idea on how the group as a whole is in terms of situation and disposition (fractured, unified, aggressive, passive etc) We can also see what we can find on the Iowa group to help inform identifying gaps in knowledge on the Iowa group and narrow down on the questions we need to answer.
 
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[Q] Related your realization that Ito is the exception that clarifies the rule: It's not that magical girls always fall in love with girls. Rather, the SOs of magical girls are into Yuri. :V

An angeru! :[

More seriously, a thought.

Power copying is a solid result for Sayaka's wish. It's a super teamwork power. But other they setting even more power behind Sabrina, it doesn't do all that much to actually help Homura and Madoka, especially emotionally or in the sense of life goals and self-worth, where we need the most help by far.

What if Sayaka's copying power is actually secondary, the way Mami's ribbons are a secondary result of her wish to be tied to life?

I think that the direct result of Sayaka's wish may have literally been the power to help. Not in any symbolic or roundabout manner with a powerful ability, but a power whispering in her ear exactly what to do to help her friends.

I'm not sure what we'd observe to falsify this. Sayaka not having a suggestion for how to help with something? That said, I think we can probably build evidence for it being more likely than alternatives. I think the big thing would be observing Sayaka acting on information that she couldn't have except by being contessa-lite? So... mostly indistinguishable from the "unconsciously an angel" hypothesis, I guess. Especially because I've heard proposals saying they wishes are, effectively, granted by the magical girl's over-arching universal soul, and it'd be easy for Sayaka's soul to implement an "always know how to help" power by just quietly leaking information to her as necessary.

(Which, of course would mean that it's not just Sayaka that's on board with MadoHomu - it's literally every Sayaka in every reality ever.)

The problem with the hypothesis is that Sayaka has had stuff up with her since well before she made her wish. Her wish may have interacted with all that, but it seems more reasonable to presume that the underlying cause is something else.

As far as her power, I think it's better to look at power copying as being about what being useful means to Sayaka.

Seen from a stance of utility, first off, it's a toolbox. It's acknowledging that no one power will solve everything and so instead being able to have the needed solution on hand, whatever that may be at any given time.

Secondly it's taking inspiration from others. Sayaka may not have the answers herself, but she can stand on the shoulders of giants. It's about being like the people she admires and doing what they can do. It's present in her fighting style too: Kyouko notes that Sayaka is reactive, she takes her cues from others.

So yeah, I think Sayaka got the power she did because of how she thinks about herself and the meaning of her, personally, being useful. We've talked about what she sees in others and her lack of self-esteem after all, and I think her power copying ties into that.

As an example, if Sayaka she ever redefines her wish and how she thinks of herself, she might move on to power-synthesis or -invention. Keeping the toolbox analogy, but dropping the copying side of things.
We doing my vote with a better IRC portion - more focus on the local groups


[x] Discuss the politics of Tokyo!
-[x] Hitomi and Madoka's thoughts on the matter. Focus on how any possibilities will influence your first meetings. If you have too many ideas focus on Most likely case, Worst Case and Most Dangerous Cause.
- [X] Also Specifically figure out what you know, and what you DON'T know and what you wish you knew and what you NEED to know. This makes questions to answer that can shape our approach to negotiations and what to look for longer term. The need to know become priority intelligence needs.
[x] Dinner!
[x] What do you do afterwards?
- [x] Check out the IRCs again
- [x] With #nyantokanyaru see if we can hash out when and where to meet them. Homura wished to get their help for Walpurgisnacht and they may be able to help act as a clear seed distributor. We can also ask them about what they know of Iowa, with a focus towards previously identified gaps.
- [x] If we have time check on #milesgloriosus and see if we can talk to any of the other girls on the server we have yet to meet. General introductions for them, nice, friendly, and honest. Get an idea on how the group as a whole is in terms of situation and disposition (fractured, unified, aggressive, passive etc) We can also see what we can find on the Iowa group to help inform identifying gaps in knowledge on the Iowa group and narrow down on the questions we need to answer.

As far as politics goes, my head is not in the space for that discussion, but would it be worth mentioning what we're trying to achieve there? (namely, recruitment and our offer of cleansing)

When it comes to the offers we're making Nyantokanyaru I'd stress that clear seeds are still a clinical trial, and that they'd have to put thought towards defending them. Because while we are beholden to give our assistance, that doesn't mean we can stop people from considering clear seeds a target in the first place.

It would also be good to note to them that none of the offers or requests we're making are contingent on each other.
 
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When it comes to the offers we're making Nyantokanyaru I'd stress that clear seeds are still a clinical trial, and that they'd have to put thought towards defending them. Because while we are beholden to give our assistance, that doesn't mean we can stop people from considering clear seeds a target in the first place.

It would also be good to note to them that none of the offers or requests we're making are contingent on each other.

...... Sabrina at this point is a fairly earnest and honest deal broker so I figured she would be forthright with all those details on her own?
 
Alternative options. A giant Madoka smiling cutely as she's smashing buildings. Or a giant Moemura shyly kicking things.

Alternative options. A giant Madoka smiling cutely as she's smashing buildings. Or a giant Moemura shyly kicking things.

The giant madoka stubs her toe on a gas station

and THEN giant Moemura goes on a stomping rampage...

Oh... I've seen those kinda images... there are weird parts of the internet man.
 
...... Sabrina at this point is a fairly earnest and honest deal broker so I figured she would be forthright with all those details on her own?
For all our honesty, we do have a tendency to just... forget and not mention things. Especially when they're new topics.

Warning them about the care and maintenance of clear seeds and our expectations for their holders? Yeah, I think that will happen on its own.

Giving them the details about defensive stuff on the other hand is not something we've really done so far. Not since we really started to consider Iowa as a threat. Plus I want to be extra careful now because of the possibility that we may have found something odd with clear seeds and missed it because of poor experimental protocol. (Namely, my earlier thoughts on the plebbing being a power-copying aspect due to filling them with our magic.)

Likewise hiring for Walpurgis is still a fairly new topic that we haven't really thought out how to go into in detail yet.

Another thing that occurs to me is whether we should ask #nyatokanyaru if they've had problems with other grief controllers that we should worry about too. We don't know the MO of other sorts of grief controllers, but every reaction we've had so far to us and just how carefully polite and deferential everyone is says there's something seriously wrong going on.
 
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[:V] Note to Sayaka that there is a saying, "Villains act, heroes react."
-[:V] Inform her that you've always hated that saying.
did you know that antagonist litterqly means "the one who initiate change"? so we're technically an antagonist here,
Oh... I've seen those kinda images... there are weird parts of the internet man.
is it worse that I know exactly what your talking about or that despite knowing what it is I've never actually seen any pmmmgt except for homura?
I think the later is worse cause it means I'm already in too deep
the internet is a dark place
 
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I think that we're relatively well-decided that we want to IRC and politics. Taking the stuff that's been noted, adding more of my own stuff, and making it all a bit more readable.

[x] Discuss Tokyo politics with your cabinet
-[x] Try to nail down your own position so you can engage with them on your terms. Goals are something like "Improve QoL by increasing stability by obviating resource contention", yes?
-[x] In particular, is the continued existence of the Tokyo political situation a goal or a non-goal?
-[x] What information should you focus on obtaining to guide future efforts? Toschimichi's power is obvious, but who should you try to talk to and what scuttlebutt should you go digging for?
-[x] Observation: The meguca rotation might be so Toshimichi can have time to work on people in isolation.

[x] TO THE INTERNETS
-[x] Check back in with #nyantokanyaru to wrap that up.
-[x] Ask about their local politics. With a grief controller acting as a force multiplier for a Clear Seed, you might want to get one to them sooner rather than later so they can share it around.
-[x] Also, Mitakihara has infinite cleansing and can accept refugees.
-[x] Talk Walpy. You are assembling an army. Even if they don't want to fight, it'd be great to have a grief controller with a clear seed to staff the trauma ward.
-[x] Ask if they know anything about the Iowa group. You're pretty sure they'll be gunning for you and you intend to do unto them before they do unto you.
 
[X] Vebyast

Though I do want to point out? One can participate in multiple IRC chats at once, especially with superhuman multitasking and typing.
 
Hunh. I think I figured out a translation to explain what our metaknowedge means to Sabrina. A bit late for most of the big conversations, but still.

What do you call someone you've known since before you were truly conscious?

You call them family.

You call them your parents, your sisters, your childhood friends, your cousins.

Some of them are closer to you than others. Some of them you will come to care about in different ways than others. But they all matter to you on a deep level, and one that is likely to only grow deeper as you spend more time together.

Oh, good catch. I'm headed to bed now but I'll add that tomorrow morning. Would we want to check milesgloriosus again, or pick a new chat?
I think it would be better to get back to #milesgloriosus. They're not unlikely to have heard of Iowa and we never shared our contact info with them.
 
Or I guess there might not be much reason to stop at two, that's another option. Someone should go check on message timings in past IRC logs to see what the load average is for one channel and how much bandwidth we have to play with.
 
Or I guess there might not be much reason to stop at two, that's another option. Someone should go check on message timings in past IRC logs to see what the load average is for one channel and how much bandwidth we have to play with.
Actually, I think the problem we'd run into first is "what can/will Firn write". :p
 
Actually, I think the problem we'd run into first is "what can/will Firn write". :p

Kinda why I proposed them one at a time. Easier for me to follow and Firn to write. I need to go to work soon, will adjust my vote etc later.

After I figure out what exactly I don't like about Vebyast's vote.

Edit: something bothers me about it... just can't put my finger on it.
 
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