- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, of course we look like our moms?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Well, of course we look like our moms?
I am a bit surprised Homura did not know about Kyouko's wish. We should explicitly ask her to feel free to ask about any of our metaknowledge or if she wants to hear all of the full "pre-Sabrina memories" stories. Obviously, we would exclude Madokami and Rebellion (Plus potential, although that needs to be talked about soon). We do have time after all!
The word time itself becomes funny and punny when Homura's involved, even unintentionally like this.
First of all, why does she look at her Soul Gem here? My first thought is that she may be thinking about her inhumanity, and tying it into the other things Sabrina says (For example, telling her to sleep and eat properly), although I'm not 100% sure about this.
I was confused for a bit because I was relating this to Soul shapes, rather than Soul Gem shapes. I found out that it was referring to the shape of the gem rather than the Soul with some investigation
Scary!
I'm pretty sure this means that Homura was extremely terrified when she thought her shield had broken during the Oriko fight. After Walpurgisnacht when her shield does break (in a different way), she's going to have a very, very hard time.
Anyone have any idea what Homura means by this gesture here?
I'm not sure if it's actually a good thing or a bad thing that we're cutting off Homura, but it sort of feels wrong to me, so I wanted to bring it up. She is just so scared and I hate that it is like this. It feels like she being very very reliant on us for this, and I want her to share full sentences and complete thoughts.
We should definitely talk to her about the conversation we had with Sayaka, talk about the offer we gave her about secrets (we may have already done this), and say that we want to not hide anything from Sayaka, assuming the guess that she will want to know about secrets is correct. Now, Homura would probably not be on board with loop-bombing her, even if she doesn't understand this friendly version of Sayaka, but we could explain how it would work in our eyes.
Ultimately, she'll almost definitely not agree, but it's good for her to know our thought process, and I want to know more about her thought process and analysis of the situation.
Phew!
Fake edit: Now I see that while I was writing this, more posts have been posted. Time to write responses to those, and to the vote! Tea-Timestop sounds like a fun idea.
To add to the information asymmetry section, we also need to know more about rehatching Witches, and why it is not a common practice. We do have theories, either a stronger Witch or a useless Grief Seed, but have never actually tried it out, or asked anyone, as far as I know. The only times we've talked about rehatching Witches that I can find are the Clear Seed issues. The two main hypotheses that I've seen are a stronger Witch, or a useless Grief Seed, but we have no evidence for either. This may ultimately be not very helpful, but at some point I bet someone is going to ask Sabrina "Why don't people just rehatch Witches?" and we don't have an answer beyond "I think it may be a bad idea" at the moment.
Finally, does Homura really not know about entropy being the Incubator's explanation? I was pretty sure she knew from the earlier loops, but I am uncertain and can't find any concrete info on it after a cursory search. We've only talked about it within PMAS with Niko according to my search of the Story-Only thread.
Speaking of Niko, did we tell Homura details about Niko and her research / potential research in other timelines yet? In addition, definitely repeat what we said to Nadia Benounna about our plans.
Phew! This post got quite long! Homura needs hundreds more hugs and support and we need more jokes that can make her smile. To summarize, what I want to ask and tell Homura that is in addition to the current vote, but the current vote is already quite long.
[X] Redshirt Army
The word time itself becomes funny and punny when Homura's involved, even unintentionally like this.
First of all, why does she look at her Soul Gem here? My first thought is that she may be thinking about her inhumanity, and tying it into the other things Sabrina says (For example, telling her to sleep and eat properly), although I'm not 100% sure about this.
I was confused for a bit because I was relating this to Soul shapes, rather than Soul Gem shapes. I found out that it was referring to the shape of the gem rather than the Soul with some investigation
Scary!
I wonder if Homura views the implications of knowing personal facts about people unilaterally without their consent as an invasion of privacy, like we have thought (Particularly like with Mami and the metabomb) in the past. She doesn't say whether "Wishes are too personal" was her opinion or Kyouko's opinion, but I do have a feeling she'd have a lot of trouble sharing her own, and I wonder if she does feel uncomfortable knowing Kyouko's. We should ask her if she does feel uncomfortable, and that may be good for Sabrina to have someone to talk to about having a similar issue.
I'm pretty sure this means that Homura was extremely terrified when she thought her shield had broken during the Oriko fight. After Walpurgisnacht when her shield does break (in a different way), she's going to have a very, very hard time.
Anyone have any idea what Homura means by this gesture here?
I'm not sure if it's actually a good thing or a bad thing that we're cutting off Homura, but it sort of feels wrong to me, so I wanted to bring it up. She is just so scared and I hate that it is like this. It feels like she being very very reliant on us for this, and I want her to share full sentences and complete thoughts.
We should definitely talk to her about the conversation we had with Sayaka, talk about the offer we gave her about secrets (we may have already done this), and say that we want to not hide anything from Sayaka, assuming the guess that she will want to know about secrets is correct. Now, Homura would probably not be on board with loop-bombing her, even if she doesn't understand this friendly version of Sayaka, but we could explain how it would work in our eyes.
Ultimately, she'll almost definitely not agree, but it's good for her to know our thought process, and I want to know more about her thought process and analysis of the situation.
Phew!
Fake edit: Now I see that while I was writing this, more posts have been posted. Time to write responses to those, and to the vote! Tea-Timestop sounds like a fun idea.
To add to the information asymmetry section, we also need to know more about rehatching Witches, and why it is not a common practice. We do have theories, either a stronger Witch or a useless Grief Seed, but have never actually tried it out, or asked anyone, as far as I know. The only times we've talked about rehatching Witches that I can find are the Clear Seed issues. The two main hypotheses that I've seen are a stronger Witch, or a useless Grief Seed, but we have no evidence for either. This may ultimately be not very helpful, but at some point I bet someone is going to ask Sabrina "Why don't people just rehatch Witches?" and we don't have an answer beyond "I think it may be a bad idea" at the moment.
Finally, does Homura really not know about entropy being the Incubator's explanation? I was pretty sure she knew from the earlier loops, but I am uncertain and can't find any concrete info on it after a cursory search. We've only talked about it within PMAS with Niko according to my search of the Story-Only thread.
Speaking of Niko, did we tell Homura details about Niko and her research / potential research in other timelines yet? In addition, definitely repeat what we said to Nadia Benounna about our plans.
Phew! This post got quite long! Homura needs hundreds more hugs and support and we need more jokes that can make her smile. To summarize, what I want to ask and tell Homura that is in addition to the current vote, but the current vote is already quite long.
- Does Homura view herself as invading privacy with her time travel?
- We want to let Sayaka know about Homura's past, but we know Homura probably won't agree
- Mechanics of rehatching Witches
- Reversing Witchification and our conversation with Nadia.
[X] Redshirt Army
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
Food, the great communicator. We keep it simple, and excellent. With little notes on each serving. She doesn't have a lot of hedonic specificity with all she carries on her mind (and her upbringing), so maybe pick three 'comfort items' for her stocks? Cream Stew was already up, call out some choices?
In keeping with a "cognitive styled" heart-to-heart, I offer that we open with a direct expression. The Sayaka talk can open with "Sayaka is already acting as your friend full time." Then, supporting events. Since this isn't a risk discussion, like Oriko topics still feel to her, touting less complexity should be a good feeling for Homura? Is the overall point, let her grow the skills to feel that confidence all the time? Don't try to generalize or smooth away anything - categorization and order might be a good way to help. We already blocked her extreme thinking regarding Sayaka. The situation is complex to Homura, and our success is to make all the information still get in, only better than she was able to before. Understanding is supposed to be useful, both interpersonally and internally. Say it in a useful way.
What we don't reach immediately, Madoka will be acting on. Let's not forget, we don't live in a vacuum!
Homura's endless quantity of practice never really applied to befriending Sayaka, that path got closed to her early on. Once we get the results calibrated, I expect Homura advances to where she wants to be easily.
In fact, they have a very large basis for compatibility, when you look at everything a certain way. It isn't culture, or similar personalities - it's in what they choose.
Having Homura restrain negative emotions is always disaffecting. But they can't be ignored. In context, this is the "pain means your are still alive" achievement. These things are between her and a proper life, so getting to the other side is a big win. Unlike a Witch, we fix and sympathize, more often than we break and dominate.
Thanks to us all, Sabrina-tachi.
'Yea, with both hands thou shalt give it'.
Well, maybe not that.
Everything Kyuubey does also increases isolation, so the girl can't get help.
Makes all the difference!
This is an idea where more drafts of refinement would increase the love and effect. This is uplifting, in that we are going to care about how to be a partner under these irregular conditions - and that makes the benefits solid, just as we are pursuing in our Mami relationship. Will try to help and comment later.
In keeping with a "cognitive styled" heart-to-heart, I offer that we open with a direct expression. The Sayaka talk can open with "Sayaka is already acting as your friend full time." Then, supporting events. Since this isn't a risk discussion, like Oriko topics still feel to her, touting less complexity should be a good feeling for Homura? Is the overall point, let her grow the skills to feel that confidence all the time? Don't try to generalize or smooth away anything - categorization and order might be a good way to help. We already blocked her extreme thinking regarding Sayaka. The situation is complex to Homura, and our success is to make all the information still get in, only better than she was able to before. Understanding is supposed to be useful, both interpersonally and internally. Say it in a useful way.
What we don't reach immediately, Madoka will be acting on. Let's not forget, we don't live in a vacuum!
Homura's endless quantity of practice never really applied to befriending Sayaka, that path got closed to her early on. Once we get the results calibrated, I expect Homura advances to where she wants to be easily.
In fact, they have a very large basis for compatibility, when you look at everything a certain way. It isn't culture, or similar personalities - it's in what they choose.
Having Homura restrain negative emotions is always disaffecting. But they can't be ignored. In context, this is the "pain means your are still alive" achievement. These things are between her and a proper life, so getting to the other side is a big win. Unlike a Witch, we fix and sympathize, more often than we break and dominate.
Thanks to us all, Sabrina-tachi.
If only we could get a little straightforward desire out of there...
'Yea, with both hands thou shalt give it'.
Well, maybe not that.
Let me compress that down? ::Isolation::
Everything Kyuubey does also increases isolation, so the girl can't get help.
Welcome! Please, play with us!
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Random thought... Sayaka just ordering Madoka to hug Homura after finding out about the loops. Without telling Madoka why...
Sayaka: Madoka! GIVE HOMURA A HUG!
Madoka: What, why?
Sayaka:... Do you not trust me? *pouts*
Madoka: I..no..OK! [Hugs Homura]
Homura: !___!
Sayaka: Madoka! GIVE HOMURA A HUG!
Madoka: What, why?
Sayaka:... Do you not trust me? *pouts*
Madoka: I..no..OK! [Hugs Homura]
Homura: !___!
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
@Redshirt Army
I was expressly told by @Firnagzen, when I asked him about my vote:
I would comment more on vote stuffs, but I have stuff I need to do today.
I was expressly told by @Firnagzen, when I asked him about my vote:
If you're adding stuff, you have to remove an equal amount of stuff.
I would comment more on vote stuffs, but I have stuff I need to do today.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I feel like I did? I removed asking Homura about grief seeds and time travel, moved talking about Kyuubey's motives to earlier, and expanded on Kyubey's motives with the space freed up by not asking Homu about grief seeds.
@Firnagzen ? Is my adjusted vote too long?
Because I'd love to start hacking away at the phrasing to get it to under 150, but haven't because of respect for Godwinson's original wording.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
When it comes to talking to Dedolere, the question is: Is Dedolere even really something separate from ourselves, or anything more than our own
We haven't ever confirmed the old hypothesis that witches are a different entity from the magical girls they hatch from after all, and that's kind of axiomatic to this approach.
I think coming to terms with our witch is valuable no matter what, but this sort of thing does have a pretty big impact on how that can be done. It may be wise to look for possibilities that do not require a definite answer to that question.
That said, the only time our witch ever appears to have done anything has been while we were in a trance, so it stands to reason that if we wanted to communicate, be she merely our own unconscious or something other than us, would be to use that space of mind.
As it so happens, we have made books before. What would happen if we tranced the creation a written Q&A session? Or a diary written from Dedolere's perspective? Or a video of things that happened while we were entranced? (I mean, the last one probably won't tell us Dedolere's thoughts, but if our eyes were open during the barrier incident...) Or any or all of the above combined, really.
- Location
- SomeWhereElse
[X] Godwinson
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
That went rather better, hooray.
Agent of Madokami intensifies
There's a bit of ambiguity in the grammar here. Do we have an easier time reading Homura than other people do, or is Homura easier for us to read than other people are? I could believe it both ways, but one of them is way more suspicious.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Jiven
With the power of the moon...
- Location
- Strasbourg, France
And thousands of words from Sabrina. Yeah, it feels unfair. No, not unfair. It shows how much Homura is lost.
Last edited:
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the second, but you can be certain of getting the first." -
That quotes the first to come to mind reading this... and actually thinking about it it works VERY well here in PMAS. The information hazards, how we got Oriko to reflect on her self etc etc. In PMMM & PMAS the above line is quite literal.
- Location
- Canada
This update has worried me, in some ways. Homura's reactions to our explanations, her talking about how things are going well 'this time'... I understand that we shouldn't need to worry about planning for failure, but I get the impression that if something kills us or otherwise forces her to loop again soon, she might spiral hard relatively soon afterwards.
It's a mindset of 'If I couldn't do it with her, how can I possibly do it without her,' and probably won't mesh well with Homura's self-confidence issues. I think we need to take more action towards talking out specific strategies she could try at the start of loops (with or without our presence, whether or not we have timey-memory shenanigans) in order to make better impressions and build trust with the others individually. This is obviously somewhat-paranoid, but enacting it as an overall strategy (in addition to our current strategy of explaining our current actions and describing the personalities of our peers in general terms) could do a lot to assuage potential 'bad futures' while costing us little, given that it'll only need talking and pre-talk vote-crafting.
It's a mindset of 'If I couldn't do it with her, how can I possibly do it without her,' and probably won't mesh well with Homura's self-confidence issues. I think we need to take more action towards talking out specific strategies she could try at the start of loops (with or without our presence, whether or not we have timey-memory shenanigans) in order to make better impressions and build trust with the others individually. This is obviously somewhat-paranoid, but enacting it as an overall strategy (in addition to our current strategy of explaining our current actions and describing the personalities of our peers in general terms) could do a lot to assuage potential 'bad futures' while costing us little, given that it'll only need talking and pre-talk vote-crafting.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think thats basically a risk that MUST occur if we decide to try to win this loop. We can't fix everything before WPN without causing such thoughts in Homura because of how effective we MUST be due to the deadline
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
I like this idea.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Paging @Vebyast . The value of building Homura up in case we fail is extremely questionable - if we fail, we fail. The quest Bad Ends, and we don't continue following Homura.
So the only real purpose of doing so is to comfort Homura, here and now - and it's extremely debatable whether whatever small piece of mind our preparations can give her outweighs having to repeatedly bring up the prospect of failure.
So the only real purpose of doing so is to comfort Homura, here and now - and it's extremely debatable whether whatever small piece of mind our preparations can give her outweighs having to repeatedly bring up the prospect of failure.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Attention All Potentials!
The universe is in danger, and it needs your help to save it from entropy! To save it, Kyubey needs to gather up a whole lot of energy!
To help, just share your hopes and dreams, your wishes for the future, and the funny feelings inside your soul!
But act quick, so that Kyubey can grant your wish, and so we can all secure the epic victory R O Y A L E
Hmm. I'll allow it, yes. It's not really about sheer length of a vote, it's about how many substantial things you're asking of Sabrina in one update - and this is something that's rather nebulous and hard to define.
First, welcome to the thread, and second - Sabrina wasn't really cutting Homura off, so much as Homura trailed off and Sabrina completed the sentences for her.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
It's well past "extremely questionable" and into "clearly negative".
There's a hard minimum on the necessary amount of building-up we need to do. There's a theory floating around that she can't remember the end of the last loop because she got Potentialbomed, Witched Out, and was restored by a blind Wish by Madokami to Fix Everything. Even if that theory doesn't match reality, we know for sure that Homura is sufficiently vulnerable that the QM stepped out to stop us when we attempted it once. No amount of building-up is useful if Homura is in insta-Witch range of Kyubey.
That hard minimum level of preparation is probably similar to the level of preparation necessary to good-end PMAS outright. The potentialbomb is so bad for Homura that we don't even know why it's so bad. Getting her to the point where she can accept that she is and always has been the cause of her own failure is pretty much the same as fixing all of her major issues, which is probably one of the core Win Conditions for PMAS as a whole.
If building Homura up to the point where she can survive another loop is the same as just winning, why not just win?
Then, of course, we have the costs. Preparing Homura for failure is only valuable if failure is a possibility. We cannot allow ourselves to believe that failure is possible. PMMM makes a big deal about karmic balance, Hope and Despair being equal and opposite, and our purpose is to break that balance. We're practically the physical avatar of Hope in this world. There are plenty of people to do all the worrying about failure for us. We have no room for despair and should not admit it.
Then there's our Wish. We just got done having a big thing about how Wishes interact with intent and belief. We Wished for Control so that we could bring hope to everyone. @Redshirt Army almost hits the nail right on the head with the comment about a bad end being Quest Over, Game Over, who cares if Homura wins afterward because we have failed and that's not what the story is about. Handing the hope for the future over to someone else goes directly against Sabrina's Wish and would directly and game-mechanically destroy Sabrina - without Cleansing, game over. Fast.
Then, of course, you have our title. Magical Girl: System Breaker. One of the systems that we need to break is Homura's looping. We need to break it. Not slightly bend it, or tweak it a bit to the left. If Homura Loops, we have failed to break her system. The entire point of our existence is that the people here can't save themselves. We exist to come along and take a crowbar to the systems that're making everyone suffer.