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[ ] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[ ] New enemies.

My vote. It's either going to be the invasion, so we learn more, or someone new. Either way, we learn stuff, possibly help our people and get a measure of how strong we are on the galactic stage.
 
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...Is there a reason you're quoting the dictionary at me? I am aware of what I said.
Because I would argue that traveling through Hell to reach Heaven in our present state, relying purely on Kakara's charisma to talk her way past any trouble she encounters, is an act of profound folly. Not because we cannot succeed, but because we might not succeed, and the cost of failure is nigh-unlimited.

It is an unnecessary risk at this time. We don't need anything from the ancestors in Heaven so badly that it makes it worth the risk. Not while we have other avenues to pursue like "go track down the Namekians if they're still around" or, well, pretty much anything else we could plausibly be doing.

I agree with everything, but I'd like to take a moment to remember the only 2 people we know to be sent to hell that came back from it: Vegeta and Frieza. They managed to not infinitely lose :D
They had people with dragonballs on their side, as I recall.

We don't.

So... does anyone have a guess as to where old enemies takes us. It's not hell so that's something but I'm kinda stumped beyond that.
Probably some enemy we've met before. @KaintukeeBob is probably right to think of the scouts (former enemies, now budding friends) or Dandeer.

I disagree about the alien fleet because we've never actually met them. Right now they're more Dandeer's enemy than ours, because Dandeer owns a planet, and we do not. Also see below.

Another possibility is some old foe of the Z fighters who never really fully reconciled with them. If Frieza is still alive he's a candidate. Or it could be someone who fought Gohan after the death of Goku and Vegeta. The worst-case scenario is that we end up getting drawn to the Enemy, who would definitely qualify as an 'old enemy' of our people in that he is very much our enemy, and older than any being we know to still be alive who IS our enemy.

I'd say "new enemies" is likely to take us either to the alien fleet, because anyone else who qualifies would be an entirely unknown person who hates Kakara for no reason, which seems a bit of an asspull.

My own working theory is:

Old friends -> Either the Garenhuld Resistance, or the Namekians, or some other group allied to the Z fighters that still lives and remembers them.
New friends -> ??? (I dunno but it sounds fun!)
Old family -> Androids 17 and 18
New family -> The other saiyan offshoot race mentioned by Dazarel, descended from Tarble and Guro (I really really have to wonder what the kids look like)
Old enemies -> As noted, either Dandeer, MAYBE the scouts, or a completely unknown foe of the Z-fighters (maybe Frieza if he yet lives)
New enemies -> Probably the alien fleet.

The problem with "new family" and for that matter "old family" is that we're a shade. Only wizards, psychics, and the dead can see us. Androids an random crossbreeds of saiyans and weird marshmallowy-looking aliens probably cannot. Given that we need to find an anchor point for our shade, and a physical body, pronto, finding someone who can see us so we can in some way communicate would be very helpful.

The alien fleet is a big X-factor; their sheer SIZE means they may well have a few magicians or psychics along, but it'll be a crapshoot locating them and there might be none present- we saw no sign of magic or psi powers among the scouts.

The Namekians or Dandelor (at least) of the Resistance will hopefully be able ot see us. Dandeer can see us and that's a bad thing so we should probably avoid Old Enemies until we know we can defend ourselves somehow.

If he's alive maybe Frieza. Or buu. 17 and 18 technically work as well.
I don't think 17 and 18 would be counted as enemies, because we're their N-times-great-grandchild. If they can even perceive us, they won't think of us as an enemy, or vice versa. Frieza would qualify. Buu? Dunno. By the end of Super he seemed to be on pretty good terms with the Z-fighters.

At least he'd be able to see us, and even if he's hungry he probably wouln't try to eat us being as how we're a ghost. :p

[ ] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[ ] New enemies.

My vote. It's either going to be the invasion, so we learn more, or someone new. Either way, we learn stuff, possibly help our people and get a measure of how strong we are on the galactic stage.
What are your thoughts on the desirability of finding friends or allies who can see us?

Kakara is clearly getting a bit insecure and unhinged given her dialogue with Yemma. And we need a body, or at least some kind of soul jar to anchor our shade to, and only someone who can communicate with us can provide that.
 
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I'll note that, "Those Above", didn't take her to heaven. It took her to the Otherworld. It shouldn't be assumed that, "Those Below", would take her to hell instead of, say, the Demon World.

Hey, here's an idea, what if we just ask Dazzy? He's more plugged into this sort of thing, and it's just been made very clear to him that he needs her. Heck, he can probably even provide explicit targeting information for the other Saiyans or the Androids/Buu.
 
[ ] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and make ready to leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell.
-[ ] Ask Yemma if you could make a short visit to Gohan now, even if only for a matter of minutes. Not to stay.
-[ ] If so, do so. You... would very much like to see Jii-chan again.
-[ ] If not, or if the price would be too high, jump to old friends.

[ASK][ ] Lord Yemma, could I use ki telepathy to contact my ancestors in the afterlife?
[ASK][ ] Dazarel, have you ever heard of a pair of spacefaring warriors who go by the names Lapis and Lazuli?

What do people think of this vote?
 
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[ ] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and make ready to leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell.
-[ ] Ask Yemma if you could make a short visit to Gohan now, even if only for a matter of minutes. Not to stay.
-[ ] If so, do so. You... would very much like to see Jii-chan again.
-[ ] If not, or if the price would be too high, jump to old friends.

[ASK][ ] Lord Yemma, could I use ki telepathy to contact my ancestors in the afterlife?
[ASK][ ] Dazarel, have you ever heard of a pair of spacefaring warriors who go by the names Lapis and Lazuli?

What do people think of this vote?
I like it.
 
Otherworld is a dubism of "The Afterlife". Because we can't have characters say die.

Nevertheless, it didn't turn out to be heaven, specifically.



[ ] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and make ready to leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell.
-[ ] Ask Yemma if you could make a short visit to Gohan now, even if only for a matter of minutes. Not to stay.
-[ ] If so, do so. You... would very much like to see Jii-chan again.
-[ ] If not, or if the price would be too high, jump to old friends.

[ASK][ ] Lord Yemma, could I use ki telepathy to contact my ancestors in the afterlife?
[ASK][ ] Dazarel, have you ever heard of a pair of spacefaring warriors who go by the names Lapis and Lazuli?

What do people think of this vote?

I'd want to ask Dazzy about the other Saiyans he mentioned, and then ask for general recommendations.
 
Personally, what I want in order to be willing to go through hell is mastered spirit saiyan. If we can hold that, we can get strength that significantly surpasses SSj3; we won't be safe, per se, but it's safe enough that I would be willing to risk it at that point. Divine Ki or Mastered SSj2 might also be enough to convince me, depending on circumstances.
Because I would argue that traveling through Hell to reach Heaven in our present state, relying purely on Kakara's charisma to talk her way past any trouble she encounters, is an act of profound folly. Not because we cannot succeed, but because we might not succeed, and the cost of failure is nigh-unlimited.

It is an unnecessary risk at this time. We don't need anything from the ancestors in Heaven so badly that it makes it worth the risk. Not while we have other avenues to pursue like "go track down the Namekians if they're still around" or, well, pretty much anything else we could plausibly be doing.

They had people with dragonballs on their side, as I recall.

We don't.

Probably some enemy we've met before. @KaintukeeBob is probably right to think of the scouts (former enemies, now budding friends) or Dandeer.

I disagree about the alien fleet because we've never actually met them. Right now they're more Dandeer's enemy than ours, because Dandeer owns a planet, and we do not. Also see below.

Another possibility is some old foe of the Z fighters who never really fully reconciled with them. If Frieza is still alive he's a candidate. Or it could be someone who fought Gohan after the death of Goku and Vegeta. The worst-case scenario is that we end up getting drawn to the Enemy, who would definitely qualify as an 'old enemy' of our people in that he is very much our enemy, and older than any being we know to still be alive who IS our enemy.

I'd say "new enemies" is likely to take us either to the alien fleet, because anyone else who qualifies would be an entirely unknown person who hates Kakara for no reason, which seems a bit of an asspull.

My own working theory is:

Old friends -> Either the Garenhuld Resistance, or the Namekians, or some other group allied to the Z fighters that still lives and remembers them.
New friends -> ??? (I dunno but it sounds fun!)
Old family -> Androids 17 and 18
New family -> The other saiyan offshoot race mentioned by Dazarel, descended from Tarble and Guro (I really really have to wonder what the kids look like)
Old enemies -> As noted, either Dandeer, MAYBE the scouts, or a completely unknown foe of the Z-fighters (maybe Frieza if he yet lives)
New enemies -> Probably the alien fleet.

The problem with "new family" and for that matter "old family" is that we're a shade. Only wizards, psychics, and the dead can see us. Androids an random crossbreeds of saiyans and weird marshmallowy-looking aliens probably cannot. Given that we need to find an anchor point for our shade, and a physical body, pronto, finding someone who can see us so we can in some way communicate would be very helpful.

The alien fleet is a big X-factor; their sheer SIZE means they may well have a few magicians or psychics along, but it'll be a crapshoot locating them and there might be none present- we saw no sign of magic or psi powers among the scouts.

The Namekians or Dandelor (at least) of the Resistance will hopefully be able ot see us. Dandeer can see us and that's a bad thing so we should probably avoid Old Enemies until we know we can defend ourselves somehow.

I don't think 17 and 18 would be counted as enemies, because we're their N-times-great-grandchild. If they can even perceive us, they won't think of us as an enemy, or vice versa. Frieza would qualify. Buu? Dunno. By the end of Super he seemed to be on pretty good terms with the Z-fighters.

At least he'd be able to see us, and even if he's hungry he probably wouln't try to eat us being as how we're a ghost. :p

What are your thoughts on the desirability of finding friends or allies who can see us?

Kakara is clearly getting a bit insecure and unhinged given her dialogue with Yemma. And we need a body, or at least some kind of soul jar to anchor our shade to, and only someone who can communicate with us can provide that.
I think we probably want "old friends" or "old family." I would not be surprised in the slightest if 17/18 can see us, and buu might be with them and he definitally can. Old friends is probably namek or maybe senzu, either of which could help us. If those don't work and we still really need an anchor, new friends is a possibility, but it's not my preferred next pick.
 
Personally, what I want in order to be willing to go through hell is mastered spirit saiyan. If we can hold that, we can get strength that significantly surpasses SSj3; we won't be safe, per se, but it's safe enough that I would be willing to risk it at that point. Divine Ki or Mastered SSj2 might also be enough to convince me, depending on circumstances.
Mastered Spirit Saiyan followed by a journey through Hell would be fucking mythological.

Awesome.

I think we probably want "old friends" or "old family." I would not be surprised in the slightest if 17/18 can see us...
Respectfully, I would like to inquire as to how.
 
Nevertheless, it didn't turn out to be heaven, specifically.

No, instead it turned out to be the interception point for heaven. Because we're not allowed to/cannot be there right now, and one can only assume the beings ruling creation know how to mess with the Sight if Dandeer can, and indeed almost indubitably should be far more capable.

Personally, what I want in order to be willing to go through hell is mastered spirit saiyan. If we can hold that, we can get strength that significantly surpasses SSj3; we won't be safe, per se, but it's safe enough that I would be willing to risk it at that point.
I have to echo Simon here; that would be amazing, though... very possibly not enough? Although... we know ki techniques can't effect the world when used by a shade. Could we gather Ki to go spirit saiyan as a Shade?
 
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Ok. Two things:

1-Considering that future us told us explicitly to leave the planet, I really doubt that any of the options is in Garenhuld since they were all there when we tried to leave the planet.

2-Considering how dangerous Hell is and that even then it wasn't a wrong choice because it is a high risk high reward option... I don't think Old enemies is a good idea since there is a very, very small chance it could be the Enemy (which would be incredibly dangerous but give incredible profit if we learn anything about them). Even an insignificant chance is too big from what we know of them (btw, thank god we didn't try to go SS2)

I would go for New Family, Old Friends I think.
 
Alright, folks seem mostly decided, so I'll open this vote up!

For write-ins, I've seen folks contemplating asking for a briefer stay -- like, ten minutes, which is about all that's feasible -- for the purposes of information gathering and mental health. Also, review the text of the default options, for copy-pasting; I've revised one.
Nevertheless, it didn't turn out to be heaven, specifically.
To clarify: you were going to Heaven. Landing at the entrance to the entire Other World was a significantly unpleasant surprise:
More to the point -- you were not trying to land in his office, yet you did anyway.
As Paz briefly explained:
King Yemma has had us on the lookout for you ever since Son Gohan informed him that you might be coming.
Ordinarily, they let you through for these little visits because Gohan has the clout for it. Today, however, Gohan knew you might be coming here after running, and let Yemma know.

Which meant Yemma had to make extra sure not to let you through, since he knew it wasn't for a brief visit.
 
[x] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[x] Old friends.
 
[x] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[x] New enemies.
 
Heaven would've been a tad bit IMBA, honestly.

Training directly under the Old Guard? They know literally all of the old tricks.
 
[x] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[x] Old friends.
 
[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[X] New family.

[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[X] New enemies.
 
[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and make ready to leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell.
-[X] Ask Yemma if you could make a short visit to Gohan now, even if only for a matter of minutes. Not to stay.
-[X] If so, do so. You... would very much like to see Jii-chan again.
-[X] If not, or if the price would be too high, jump to old friends.

[X][ASK] Lord Yemma, could I use ki telepathy to contact my ancestors in the afterlife?
[X][ASK] Dazarel, have you ever heard of a pair of spacefaring warriors who go by the names Lapis and Lazuli?

They're Gero tech. I would not put it past Gero to have upgraded them to detect spiritual entities.
To be fair, Gero DID work with psychics during his time in the RRA. And he DID massively overbuild his androids.

But I wouldn't bet on it, because it's not just a case of him installing more stuff to make them better at what he already knows they'd need to do. It'd be a case of him installing stuff he doesn't know they need to do. And we're pretty sure things like scouters can't detect a shade, either.
 
[x] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[x] Old friends.
 
[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[X]Old Friends

[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[X]New Friends

[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[X]Old Family

[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[X]New Family

Literally any of them but enemies.
 
[X] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell. After leaving, jump to:
-[X] Old family.
 
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