Oooh, Care Bears! That's exactly what the PMMMverse needs!
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Oooh, Care Bears! That's exactly what the PMMMverse needs!
Appletank
Acquire Cheese
I consider it a case of "consent while drunk is not consent". A wish made while falling out of a plane is likely to get you something useless like "no fall damage" instead of munchkin planning. Like flight, Tron Lines, teleportation, etc.
Good morning! Wow, what a rush of backlog!
Eh, not at you Firn, but at Riona. I expect Riona not realizing she could have wished for reviving her sister (never mind that wish didn't have to in within her potential)
Riona definitely attacked us, but since she appeared to disengage when she noted her attack was ineffective it's your own call to consider if we're currently in combat.
If you aren't justifying your votes you aren
If the intent is attacking Riona, then timestopping now is the best chance: she's at the weakest here without access to her shades and apparently believes she's trapped. The only reason not to attack her is the possible collateral damage, and not to give the police clues towards us.
If by "we" you meant Sabrina, she should regret killing/gemming anyone, even someone like Riona.
*facepalm*
Eh, not at you Firn, but at Riona. I expect Riona not realizing she could have wished for reviving her sister (never mind that wish didn't have to in within her potential)
Does the result change anything? Riona acted with malice to torture the killer's soul
Please don't use invisitext, and specially not here when we are discussing. That's just discussing in bad faith.
There's no relevant intelligence to be gained, though. After all, the great disadvantage you mentioned (the Shades) are currently inaccessible thus irrelevant.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
By the way, I'm not certain about how feasible it is to actually timestop right now. Not communications wise, but even shoving aside the possibility of the shades countering timestop somehow while we're in such close quarters... I feel Rionana would definitely notice, which wouldn't be a problem if we were committed 100% to timestop gank, but is if we still want to get information from her about our Soul, Oriko's Soul, Aurora and Hildegarde, Edinburg...
Personally, I don't think our chances of successful timestop gank change a lot if we do it now or later. Our opening gambit should be to disable Riona with Anti Magic blast and Anti Magic Enchants either way, as that'd probably be more effective than gemming her, as far disabling her magic is concerned.
That'd just leave her body as a threat... which we should be able to puree if needed. :/
[X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
-[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[X] Release the Field.
-[X] Be attentinve in case Riona tries anything.
[X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
-[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
[] Go. Once you're away:
[X] Leave. Get distance but stay within your sensing range. Be inconspicuous. Then:
-[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
-[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
-[X] Break to voting before sharing what you want to do.
Clarifying to make sure we don't actually stop watching Riohana yet; also 'inconspicuous' because we'll be wanting to resume our original positions after timestop, as Homu is wont to do, in case that helps Riona not notice.
Of course, if Mami, Homura and Sayaka really want to gank Riohanana now, that doesn't really matter, but maybe it will.
Also, unnecessary additions!
Personally, I don't think our chances of successful timestop gank change a lot if we do it now or later. Our opening gambit should be to disable Riona with Anti Magic blast and Anti Magic Enchants either way, as that'd probably be more effective than gemming her, as far disabling her magic is concerned.
That'd just leave her body as a threat... which we should be able to puree if needed. :/
[X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
-[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[X] Release the Field.
-[X] Be attentinve in case Riona tries anything.
[X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
-[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
[X] Leave. Get distance but stay within your sensing range. Be inconspicuous. Then:
-[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
-[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
-[X] Break to voting before sharing what you want to do.
Clarifying to make sure we don't actually stop watching Riohana yet; also 'inconspicuous' because we'll be wanting to resume our original positions after timestop, as Homu is wont to do, in case that helps Riona not notice.
Of course, if Mami, Homura and Sayaka really want to gank Riohanana now, that doesn't really matter, but maybe it will.
Also, unnecessary additions!
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Well they certainly feel unnecessary
.Still I'm curious as to why you decide to wait until after the meeting to call for the timestop. Riona just attempted to perform a mindwhammy, Mami is in the line of fire and we're seriously thinking about just ganking her right now. Best to get our defenses up just in case things begin to escalate and if do decide to attack we'll have an advantage.
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
I'm not entirely sure this bit needs such a high priority if we're going to gank her at some point. The only gain we get from it is knowing that Rionna will be at a certain place at a certain time, so we can prepare in advance, but we could also use the airport for that. It would be good, yes, but I don't think it's as important as making sure she doesn't kill anybody. Also, Rionna would know we would be there as well, I while I don't really think she'd start a fight I doubt she'd trust us to stay peaceful. If arrange a meeting, she may very well set it up as her personal battleground, which isn't good for us.
I saw some post (I think by Redshirt, but I can't find it anywhere,) saying that being aggressively neutral could alienate Sayaka and co, and I kind of get the point. Sayaka is being given a target for JUSTICE!!! mode, and us seemingly not supporting her may not be the best idea. I still think we should be neutral, to avoid giving a biased recounting to our comrades as well as forcing Mami to consider the issue for herself instead of defaulting to us, but maybe make it clear that we have an opinion on Rionna which we'll give after everyone knows the facts.
As such, the vote would look more like this
@Onmur , why do you change your vote while I'm changing it? Oh, you cause me such pain...
[ ] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
-[ ] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[ ] Release the Field.
-[ ] Be attentive in case Riona tries anything
[ ] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[ ] High Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[ ] Low Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
--[ ] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
[ ] Leave. Get distance but stay within your sensing range. Be inconspicuous. Then:
-[ ] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
-[ ] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial. Make it clear that you have an opinion on this, which will be given once everyone's had time to form their own opinions, unbiased by yours.
-[ ] Break to voting before sharing what you want to do.
Thoughts?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I don't think this will escalate unlesd we make it escalate.Well they certainly feel unnecessary
Still I'm curious as to why you decide to wait until after the meeting to call for the timestop. Riona just attempted to perform a mindwhammy, Mami is in the line of fire and we're seriously thinking about just ganking her right now. Best to get our defenses up just in case things begin to escalate and if do decide to attack we'll have an advantage.
Riona attempted to push us away and 'lost'. We 'won' this small exchange. The moment is ours to decide what to do with it, if we push for it.
If Riona tries anything, by dropping the Field (which will hopefully de-stress Riona a bit) we're not just getting Mami back into our side Socially, but her and Homu back in action if RIona does become violent. Which I doubt.
Still, Mami, Sabrina and Homura are a really strong team. Mami literally just reacted to Rionanana's shit while being outside the Privacy Field. If Riona tries anything, it'll be Mami who can trump her in matters of reaction speed.
I'd... be more concerned that she's not close... physically?
Like, do we tell everyone we'll explain what went on with Rionahana while we take an hour's flight to Fukushima and back?
I would say Sabrina can get more guts, but then why would we want to waifu Riohanahana?
Please don't compare Homumom and Oriko to this... trash.
- Location
- The infinite well of fanfics
[X] Onmur
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Lord, I feel like a broken record, but I'm still hoping to get information out of Riohabanana.
What does our Soul look like? (Describe Oriko's Soul Pretzeling) What to do with Soul Rejection? What can Rionaha tell us about the Clear Seeds?
I want to get whatever use we can out of her, because we might not get another chance.
I pretty much figured we would not be able to redeem Riona after learning what her Wish was, but there's still important information we could get from her. I would ask her right now if I felt she would answer, rather than snap.
Then yeah, detain her and throw her in meguca prison.
Chance is open that Mami, Sayaka and Homura will decide to timestop gank her right now, anyway, but leaving peacefully while setting up a new meeting leaves both options open.
I'm testing you.@Onmur , why do you change your vote while I'm changing it? Oh, you cause me such pain...
[X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
-[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[X] Release the Field.
-[X] Be attentinve in case Riona tries anything.
[X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
-[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
[X] Leave. Get distance but stay within your sensing range. Be inconspicuous. Then:
-[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
-[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs.
--[X] Make it clear you'll hold back your own opinions until they've heard everything. Give as unbiased a re-telling of events as possible.
-[X] Listen to their opinions and break to voting before sharing what you want to do.
- Location
- Potato land
What would your preferred plan of attack be? Either we involve Homura in it, in which case her touching a shade is a danger irrespective of the privacy barrier (unless you think it won't work because of the barrier? That sounds too optimistic to me). Or we don't, and actually intend for this to be a fair fight. Can't say the latter prospect fills me with confidence. Sabrina is notably bad at close quarters combat, despite her ridiculous power, and Rionna has a lot of experience on her. Furthermore, while Rionna is clearly unnerved by the privacy barrier, she's not scared. The end of this recent chapter points this out explicitly. She still thinks she can take us, even after the failure of her Jedi mind trick.
Ultimately though, it's a question of what gives us a bigger advantage: privacy sphere blocking shades, or superior preparation. With the absolutely insane array of bullshit powers our group has at their disposal, I'll almost always pick preparation.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[Jk] Nuke from orbit, only way to be sure.
-[jk] evac civvies via timestop
-[jk] evac civvies via timestop
- Location
- Estonia
Um, you had good points about Sayaka and potentially very bad consequences of "good people doing nothing/not my problem" apathy, and I understand that you might be quite emotionally invested in the quest (which is fine; so have I, for some quests) but... could you please not do this? Alerting specific posters that you think need to hear your concerns the most, and maybe consider their votes more, is fine, but going full private detective over how many times they all have posted and then finishing it with a threat of personal condemnation and grudge... it's neither cool nor being kind.
Like, if I had been one of those poster, I might have felt legitimately disturbed. I don't participate in quests to fall under investigation or become disliked, and I don't think neither do any of them.
Edit: Sorry, didn't see you had already apologized.
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- Location
- Potato land
@Onmur I'm willing to support your vote if you make one part just a bit more paranoid for me:
Instead, put our team in the Mobile Oppression Fortress, fly out of Mitakihara at high speed, enter a privacy bubble, and then have a timestop meeting.
Just in case. It's a high priority for us to keep Rionna from even suspecting what Homura's power does.
Alternatively, if any of us can actually sense the shades, that would solve some of the problem as well.
Instead, put our team in the Mobile Oppression Fortress, fly out of Mitakihara at high speed, enter a privacy bubble, and then have a timestop meeting.
Just in case. It's a high priority for us to keep Rionna from even suspecting what Homura's power does.
Alternatively, if any of us can actually sense the shades, that would solve some of the problem as well.
Your argument clumbles at "Homura touches a Shade". (EDIT: Homura touching a Shadow if we attack later is no less likely than Homura touching a Shadow if we attack now)
Also, "privacy sphere blocking shades" isn't the biggest adventage of attacking now, it's "surprise when she doesn't expect an attack" because if the conversation were over Riona would be on guard expecting to be attacked no matter what Sabrina may say. Attacing now gives us all of this and preparation in timestop.
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- Location
- Potato land
Can you explain how you expect this to go? Homura can absolutely touch a shade by accident if she can't sense them, and we have no clue how many of them Rionna brought along, or how they're positioned.
Wait, you actually don't think she expects an attack? It's pretty clear to me that's what she's been expecting since near the start of this conversation. What do you think her glance at Mami was about this update? She's absolutely weighing her options in case a fight breaks out.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Uh... If we did that, there'd be quite some time during which Riona's not being watched?
Unless we did something silly like having Mami tag Homu with an invisible Ribbon, leave Homu watching Riona, fly out, have Homu activate timestop...
... Then bungee pulling Homu all the way to us.
- Location
- Potato land
Uh... If we did that, there'd be quite some time during which Riona's not being watched?
Unless we did something silly like having Mami tag Homu with an invisible Ribbon, leave Homu watching Riona, fly out, have Homu activate timestop...
... Then bungee pulling Homu all the way to us.
A few minutes of real time at worst. I don't think she can do anything truly dangerous in that amount of time. I suppose she could beeline for Oriko and kill her, but that just sounds like Diabolus Ex Machina. And also really, really stupid, given her behaviour thus far.
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
[X] Onmur
- Location
- Athens, Greece
This is trickery that makes me unhappy. It's clear that 'next meeting' is just a ploy so that we'll either attack her then, or we're setting it so that she lowers her guard and doesn't anticipate we'll attack her before it.
I was unhappy enough for us to attack her in negotiations because negotiations broke down, I'm even more unhappy knowing we're planning in advance to trick her by setting up a future supposed meeting.
I'd like our word to have weight such that if we say "we're letting you go" it actually means "we're letting you go" and even our enemies can trust it -- and if we want to not let her go, we should actually say "No, we can't let you go."
Because it's irrelevant: Homura touching a Shade in a timestop later is no less likely than Homura touching a Shade in a timestop now. In fact, it's more likely: Riona would gather them closer around her for protection.
Also, Shades are souls right? And we knew what happens when a timestopped soul in non-physically linked to something else*: nothing.
* Sabrina held Kirika's soul gem in timestop (but not her body); Kirika was physically fine afterwards, no body-soul disconnect appear to have happened
Riona has seen Sabrina's soul, seeing she doesn't have the intention to attack her.
- Location
- Illinois
I'm gonna direct you to the public apology I already made for that post.
- Location
- Estonia
Sorry, missed that one.
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
I'm going to unequivocally agree here, but could you clarify as to whether you had intended that from the very beginning? As other posts have pointed out, you'd originally presented her a more morally grey character, and your post just recently clarified you were hedging your words there. The only problem I have is that you'd made a post during the morality debate shitstorm when Rionna told us she was stealing souls which gave me the impression that you were flanderizing her character from grey to black to quell said shitstorm. Which is why...
...This kind of confuses me. The impression Nadia gave us was that she was, at worst, an antisocial antihero, if not a belligerent drunk, and what we got was just a couple steps short of a cackling supervillain. Despite that, about half the thread was willing to compromise if we could find literally any common ground at all, and she could in any sense stop being completely awful, and that's the one thing she's been singularly unwilling to do. She's been escalating since then, with both her and you practically screaming at us "RIONNA IS A TERRIBLE HUMAN BEING", and there's still a good quarter-to-third that would still like to find any good within her at all as a basis to do anything other than kill or gem her. It's Rionna who doesn't want to lend her power to Sabrina, or to be redeemed at all, and once cooperating was put firmly off the table, there was nothing left for the thread to do but fight over her morality.
This post probably stopped being coherent a while ago because I'm in a rush, and I probably missed some thoughts I wanted to express, but I don't think Rionna was a mistake, just... kind of incoherent, story-wise? Now, going forward, we have three options:
>Do a Homu and kill her ass (What Would Madoka Do/Everything can be fixed)
>Do an Oriko, beat her ass into the dirt, and force concessions at gunpoint (Our greatest failure according to basically everyone)
>Throw her in Magic Jail, if not Do a Pleiades and throw her in the Freezer, because she's somehow managed to be worse than Anri fucking Airi (Might as well just kill her at this point etc.)
...All three of which lead to international fallout.