If we are going to fight Rionna, can we please make the decision after asking Nadia if it's going to start a war or not? Rionna might have people that won't like us doing whatever we plan on doing to Rionna. I mean she's a powerful Magical girl that might have stopped other powerful magical girls from abusing their power.
She doesn't appear to have allies- she has slaves. And meguca getting taken out when they step up to a fight too big for them is so common in the spread out community that it's not even funny. Most likely, no one will be ballsy enough to confirm her being removed from action for a week or so anyway.
 
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If we are going to fight Rionna, can we please make the decision after asking Nadia if it's going to start a war or not? Rionna might have people that won't like us doing whatever we plan on doing to Rionna. I mean she's a powerful Magical girl that might have stopped other powerful magical girls from abusing their power.

Rionna is isolationist, she has no team and most likely no allies. There are no other magical girls in her city, at least, none that aren't hiding from her, Nadia did say she holds her territory singlehandedY after all.
 
I'm not entirely sure this bit needs such a high priority if we're going to gank her at some point. The only gain we get from it is knowing that Rionna will be at a certain place
What does our Soul look like? (Describe Oriko's Soul Pretzeling) What to do with Soul Rejection?
I would like to make obvious that words can hit, too. Regardless of our actual probability of execution, Wish Rejection is an enforcement step that exists. Did I make a joke about the Sword of Shannarra? That is roughly a wish-rejection initiator icon as I speak of it here.
Instead, put our team in the Mobile Oppression Fortress, fly out of Mitakihara at high speed, enter a privacy bubble, and then have a timestop meeting.
The privacy bubble figures in my idea as well, good for beating me to it! A camouflage for Timestop seems well intended. Rionna will be trying to watch us. Your exact method might be superior.

What I had stuck in my buffer:
Given the new set of plot actions, it looks a whole lot better to me to optimize for information, the sort that will let us use the dominant position effectively for enforcement AND saving... verbal channels are doing poorly, and need is increased.
I would like to get Rionna under our sway voluntarily - as an ideal. Fallback options are required, since she isn't following simple self-interest quickly enough.

My response is determined here not by the fact that she tried to use force against us. Her "annoyance" face upon failing to use Voice on us reinforces what I interpret as the lack of proper rational thinking. A hypothetical antagonist should have a few other reactions. Perhaps even an exit plan before she tried it. A no-sale on mind control against an aware opponent is a different stress event IMHO. I see her lack of understanding of the other party, in addition to a declaration of her relative value of our person-hood. Is this is a level of lack of self control, coupled with other failures? Or does Hubris explain everything? Her Soul Vision lets her see, but she won't understand.

This means extreme difficulty in trying to subtly manipulate her into a more Just position. Must prepare to fail gracefully, and still pursue Justice.

@Kaizuki , the concept of "solving this in the Magical Girl genre" appeals to me, as expected. I'm seeing your version as getting right to the showdown. I want to obey one of the other directives from genre as the first priority. Can I ask you to comment on going down this path?

"Discover the adversary's plan." I want your earlier suggestion to come back, as the circumstance clearly asks for it. Context will grant us efficiency. Whether enabling therapy in captivity, or dealing with political ties, knowing has value.


Among lots of other things, Rionna's pride is in the way. If we can't deal with her seeing us as an equal, then we must remove any doubt in her mind. By clinging to evil, she authorizes us to use force to do that. We might have to save her from the resulting Grief spiral, maybe more than once. She's in a very deep hole.


# We should end this sitdown stalemate, with a demand to talk after she has some sleep. @Onmur set up a technique; I might think about adding some non-combative mental stress to our parting lines. If Rionna wants to cogitate and have a few nightmares, it just may help our tasks.

# Then we should move out of range, Privacy ourselves for befuddled scrying, and execute our timestop gathering. We want to get rid of our return signature.

Depending upon meeting results, then we
# execute your long distance raid, with a goal of detailed reconnaissance. Our ace there might be Sayaka? Rionna's HQ is going to be lousy with Shades. From a distance (starting at great height) in Timestop, Sayaka will practice her vision abilities until she determines if she has a passive detection that is usable on Shades. Adapt to the situation. Inspect everything, leave no traces. Most of our questions will be half-answered, I hope. It becomes either a secret social advantage, or a probe. We return, and set our agenda for the morning. Exit the Privacy decoy.

# After preparing in this way, optimized Magical Girl talk is certainly welcome.
Still intending to solve our Justice issue with talk, once our plan for what happens after that is mostly worked out. Sayaka would be able to behave rationally if all of us do it with her, and this will keep her safe. If negotiation cannot get Rionna to understand her self-interest when she is subject to our attention, we might choose to Timestop and deal with her base, before fitting her for a cell. One heck of a mid-combat distraction for someone who has all their eggs in one basket. Justice is the arc issue we are working out here, as I see it. How to reduce harm without becoming monsters and duelists. We had the talk with our friends before. We are now practicing how this works for everyone, as a group. In that sense, our performance here is relevant. Actual experience is the way to teach our allies the path. Sayaka is about 80% beneficiary of a "win," (consistent realization of Sabrina's ideals?) The rest of the win might pay the most unexpected benefits.


There are details missing ATM, I wanted to see if this step-shuffle interests you all as well right away.
 
...... Still no idea WHY Rionna decided to come here. As macabre as it is part of me wondere if this in some ways is Rionna doing an elaborate sucuide by Brina.

Seriously.... was she expecting us to be evilz and gank us?

The only thing she could offer that makes it worth it at this point is "I can dewitch people straight up" and the can't do that.

I'm kinnda sad that something able to awnser so many questions (Soul powers) is locked behind such a villian.
 
...... Still no idea WHY Rionna decided to come here. As macabre as it is part of me wondere if this in some ways is Rionna doing an elaborate sucuide by Brina.

Seriously.... was she expecting us to be evilz and gank us?

The only thing she could offer that makes it worth it at this point is "I can dewitch people straight up" and the can't do that.

I'm kinnda sad that something able to awnser so many questions (Soul powers) is locked behind such a villian.
At least on a surface level, Rionna told us why she came here. She received information.
 
...... Still no idea WHY Rionna decided to come here. As macabre as it is part of me wondere if this in some ways is Rionna doing an elaborate sucuide by Brina.

Seriously.... was she expecting us to be evilz and gank us?

The only thing she could offer that makes it worth it at this point is "I can dewitch people straight up" and the can't do that.

I'm kinnda sad that something able to awnser so many questions (Soul powers) is locked behind such a villian.

I thought it was because she wanted a clear seed and she wanted to earn it instead of just having us give it to her
 
...... Still no idea WHY Rionna decided to come here. As macabre as it is part of me wondere if this in some ways is Rionna doing an elaborate sucuide by Brina.

Seriously.... was she expecting us to be evilz and gank us?

The only thing she could offer that makes it worth it at this point is "I can dewitch people straight up" and the can't do that.

I'm kinnda sad that something able to awnser so many questions (Soul powers) is locked behind such a villian.
She expected a (false) grief mover to roflstomp, not a (true) grief bender.
 
...... Still no idea WHY Rionna decided to come here. As macabre as it is part of me wondere if this in some ways is Rionna doing an elaborate sucuide by Brina.

Seriously.... was she expecting us to be evilz and gank us?

The only thing she could offer that makes it worth it at this point is "I can dewitch people straight up" and the can't do that.

I'm kinnda sad that something able to awnser so many questions (Soul powers) is locked behind such a villian.
She thought it be a routine pawn a newbie grief transferer

Edit: whats the PMAS equivalent to being ninja 'd?
 
Rionna is isolationist, she has no team and most likely no allies. There are no other magical girls in her city, at least, none that aren't hiding from her, Nadia did say she holds her territory singlehandedY after all.

I was more concerned with people that might feel grateful to her for saving them/helping them deal with an evil grief controller or having comrades that share her hatred towards evil grief controllers
 
If we take down Rionna, there's going to be a turf war sooner or later; Kyuubey probably never stopped combing the area for potentials, and once they stop getting ganked immediately after contracting, word's going to spread that ding dong, the witch is dead. Since Edinburgh is held by disorganized novices at that point, it's basically free real estate, and for some reason magical girls in the UK are complete bitches.
 
If we take down Rionna, there's going to be a turf war sooner or later; Kyuubey probably never stopped combing the area for potentials, and once they stop getting ganked immediately after contracting, word's going to spread that ding dong, the witch is dead. Since Edinburgh is held by disorganized novices at that point, it's basically free real estate, and for some reason magical girls in the UK are complete bitches.
We're gonna need to have a telepathy talk with Nadia after this.

Also Niko, she asked us to tell her about Riona after we met her.
 
Edinburgh is something to consider once she's down- it shouldn't immediately be a problem anyway. No one is going to check for a little while, given they dont want their souls stolen.
 
And our first words should be somewhere between "What the fuck, Nadia?" and "You have a very unusual definition of 'reasonable.'"
As far as has been hinted, Nadia probably didn't look too closely (and riona appears to not advertise the extent of her crimes to most people) and also has, quote, "seen some shit" so her standards are probably "doesn't attack me, and isn't obviously oppressing anyone". Which, if you didn't know about the nature of her shades, would be an easy conclusion to reach.
Edit: that being said we should probably take nadia's info with a grain of salt from now on. Not that she's untrustworthy, but she seems to focus on rumor gathering, not hard jounalism she can be sure of.
 
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Just posting an updated tally for reference.

I'm personally switching my vote to

[X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
[X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
[X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
Adhoc vote count started by Spectral Waltz on Sep 11, 2018 at 4:23 PM, finished with 144944 posts and 40 votes.

  • [X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
    -[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [X] Release the Field.
    -[X] Be attentinve in case Riona tries anything.
    [X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
    -[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
    -[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
    -[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
    [X] Leave. Get distance but stay within your sensing range. Be inconspicuous. Then:
    -[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
    -[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs.
    --[X] Make it clear you'll hold back your own opinions until they've heard everything. Give as unbiased a re-telling of events as possible.
    -[X] Listen to their opinions and break to voting before sharing what you want to do.
    [X] Ask Rionna if you may cleanse her.
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary, but start with minimal force. What can be accomplished with words instead of force should be.
    [X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching.
    [X] null
    [X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Agree to end the conversation, but not before calling Riona out on everything: she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing...
    -[X] Meanwhile, call Mami via grief for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
    -[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [X] Release the Field.
    [X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
    -[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
    -[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
    -[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
    [X] Go. Once you're away:
    -[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
    -[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
    [X] Kill her
    [x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
    [x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
    [x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
    [x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
    [X] Try that shit again on anyone in your territory, or hurt anyone in Mitakihara, and her life is forfeit.
    [X] You'll let her go, but she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing—so you'll be taking something in exchange. Your teammate is going to copy her power before she leaves this privacy sphere. It won't harm her or her power in any way, nor can it be used to track or monitor her. But you'll be getting SOMETHING out of all the trouble she's caused you.
    [x] Ensure she doesn't leave this bubble under her own power, either by calling a meeting and then alpha-striking her or by alpha-striking her right now.
    [X] Shrug casually
    -[X] Alright. Wasn't planning on keeping you trapped anyways, anti-spy zone is for spies like QB, not you.
    --[X] Release the field, hug Mami, telepathically request time-stop.
    ---[X] Discuss.
    [X] Cleansing offer.
    [X] If that's so, then when and why did she go from seeking justice to judging people without knowing their crimes, unjustly taking other people's sisters? When did she give up, and start spending her time inflicting pain instead of trying to get her sister back?
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching. She could always punish the architect if she's not satisfied yet. A shot at that, you can provide.
    [X] gem her
    -[X] If she shows any sign of resisting after being gemmed, smash her
    [X] Mami: clandestinely communicate to contact Homura for a time stop ASAP
    [X] Buy some time until Homura arrives. Firmly discuss that, once the isolation field is down, Rionna will not be leaving her hotel room until she leaves for her flight. Any hostile actions on Mitakihara's residents will not be tolerated.
    - [X] Be prepared to defend yourself. Do not let Rionna leave the isolation field. Prioritise protecting yourself and Mami over Non-lethal methods.
    [X] Once in timestop: Hug Mami and Homura, then break to voting.
    [X] Plan Cautious Optimism
    -[X] "I didn't intend for you to feel trapped, this is merely a privacy device to allow us to talk without being overheard by Kyubey or other parties, if it makes you feel uneasy I'll certainly turn if off although I do request that any further conversation not be about serious topics"
    -[X] Simultaneously communicate with Mami using Grief and ask for a Homrua Timestop Meeting.
    -[X] Grab everyone and hold a timestop meeting.
    --[X] we have background music if it makes everyone feel better about spending time in timestop.
    -[X] Set up preparations for dealing with Riona.
    -[X] If we decide not to attack.
    --[X] Get back into position and continue the meeting, take down the privacy field.
    --[X] Tell Riona that in light of her circumstances, attitude and the attempted mental alteration we ask that she not attack, make shades, or use magic without permission during her time here.
    --[X] Ask if she wishes to continue to talk without the privacy field.
    --[X] Set up another meeting.
    [x] Nudge Mami to call for timestop.
    -[x] Consult with allies.
 
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[ ] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
-[ ] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
-[ ] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
-[ ] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.

[ ] Leave. Get distance but stay within your sensing range. Be inconspicuous. Then:
-[ ] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
-[ ] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs.
--[ ] Make it clear you'll hold back your own opinions until they've heard everything. Give as unbiased a re-telling of events as possible.
-[ ] Listen to their opinions and break to voting before sharing what you want to do.
The main issue I have with the vote is that arranging a new meeting means offering a new meeting, and since Riona is in out turf it means we are accepting Riona (at least until her plane leaves). Now, the timestop meeting has some chance of deciding to kill/gem her immediately, making our offer of safety a lie. I want Sabrina's word have some meaning and here it's "just stay here and I'm 100% sure we are going to kill you".

At best, sabotages the timestop meeting by deliberately denying them of one option; at worst, it makes Sabrina's promises, the value of her word, meaningless.

That's even worse if Riona accepts the meeting next day.
Adhoc vote count started by Filraen on Sep 12, 2018 at 12:35 PM, finished with 702 posts and 48 votes.

  • [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, explain shade hazard then create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades, then bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them. You're not going to let that stand.
    -[X] Explain plan to team, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Have Sayaka or Kirika enchant an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not our group's). Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box while blasting antimagic at her. Have Sayaka try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body stored in Homura's shield or our hammerspace for the foreseeable future, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her.
    [X] If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
    [X] null
    [X] Act. Visibly restrain yourself. Agree verbally to leave her alone, but ask what she tried to do, first. Keep Riona unbalanced.
    [X] At the same time, signal Mami to tag you and Homura and have Homura activate her magic.
    -[X] If Riona is somehow included in timestop:
    --[X] Act first: Detain Riona with Grief Fog, take the Gem, threaten to break it.
    --[X] If anything goes wrong, no holds barred. Purée her. Save the Gem unless Riona still tries to attack.
    --[X] Otherwise, continue.
    [X] In timestop:
    -[X] Consult Mami on the danger of tripping Riona's shades. Explain briefly. Employ Grief hax if needed.
    -[X] Leave, convene with Mami and Homura.
    --[X] Make sure Riona remains time-stoped at all times.
    --[X] Things went wrong, get Sayaka and go to Oriko's. Insist if needed.
    --[X] Get Kirika to enchant everything you might need to antimagic Riona, Gem and body.*
    --[X] Explain eveything. Avoid Social Bombs.
    -[X] Plan (listen to opinions):
    --[X] Blast Riona and her surrounding area with Anti Magic (Sayaka and Kirika).
    --[X] Use Anti Magic restraints on Riona and her Gem.
    --[X] Restrain Riona completely.
    --[X] Mami and Homura know their roles better than you do.
    -[X] Enact plan.
    [X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Kill her
    [x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
    [x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
    [x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
    [x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
    [X] Agree to end the conversation, but not before calling Riona out on everything: she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing...
    -[X] Meanwhile, call Mami via grief for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [x] Ensure she doesn't leave this bubble under her own power, either by calling a meeting and then alpha-striking her or by alpha-striking her right now.
    [X] Shrug casually
    -[X] Alright. Wasn't planning on keeping you trapped anyways, anti-spy zone is for spies like QB, not you.
    --[X] Release the field, hug Mami, telepathically request time-stop.
    ---[X] Discuss.
    [X] Cleansing offer.
    [X] If that's so, then when and why did she go from seeking justice to judging people without knowing their crimes, unjustly taking other people's sisters? When did she give up, and start spending her time inflicting pain instead of trying to get her sister back?
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching. She could always punish the architect if she's not satisfied yet. A shot at that, you can provide.
    [X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
    -[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [X] Release the Field.
    [X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
    -[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
    -[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
    -[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
    [X] Go. Once you're away:
    -[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
    -[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
    [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, request immediate timestop. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades. Go bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them. You're not going to let that stand.
    -[X] Explain plan to team, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Obtain an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not ours) using Kirika's enchantment. Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box, with an antimagic pulse from Sayaka active as you do. Have Sayaka try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body in stasis in Homura's shield, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her.
    [X] If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
    [X] Your power is to enslave and torment other magical girls?
    - [X] If you continue on this path, it will lead to conflict between us in future.
    [X] But for now, you came to Mitakihara in peace, and we'll ask you to leave in peace.
    - [X] If we can get your word to leave Mitakihara in peace, we'll drop the shield and escort you to the airport.
    [X] add to TODO list: develop soul shielding, liberate Edinburgh.
    [X] Your power is to enslave and torment other magical girls?
    - [X] If you continue on this path, it will lead to conflict between us in future.
    [X] But for now, you came to Mitakihara in peace, and we'll ask you to leave in peace.
    - [X] If we can get your word to leave Mitakihara in peace, we'll drop the shield and escort you to the airport.
    [X] add to TODO list: develop soul shielding, liberate Edinburgh.
 
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The main issue I have with the vote is that arranging a new meeting means offering a new meeting, and since Riona is in out turf it means we are accepting Riona (at least until her plane leaves). Now, the timestop meeting has some chance of deciding to kill/gem her immediately, making our offer of safety a lie. I want Sabrina's word have some meaning and here it's "just stay here and I'm 100% sure we are going to kill you".

At best, sabotages the timestop meeting by deliberately denying them of one option; at worst, it makes Sabrina's promises, the value of her word, meaningless.

That's even worse if Riona accepts the meeting next day.
I'll be honest, it doesn't sit entirely well with me to plan this, but at the same time, I don't think we should put ourselves at a disadvantadge when dealing with an unrepentant murderer and slaver.

Sure, our words should mean something, but the words we give to something like that? Against someone like Riona, lie and cheat and trick; giving her any chance, any advantadge, is not noble and good, because it's giving a murderer/slaver all of those things.

It's not like Riona's motives are in question any more.

If the group decides to deal with Riona ASAP, it wouldn't be sensate to argue we shouldn't because we told Riona we'd meet up again tomorrow. Rather, imprisoning Riona at safely as possible is pretty much 100% a good thing.

How can I put this? I understand wanting our own word to have value, but when the one we give our word to is that sort? I believe many would see it as more noble/good to not hold onto it just for the sake of holding onto it. Stopping Riona is far more important than that.
 
How can I put this? I understand wanting our own word to have value, but when the one we give our word to is that sort? I believe many would see it as more noble/good to not hold onto it just for the sake of holding onto it. Stopping Riona is far more important than that.

This is frankly the obvious direct benefit you are talking about: "But lying to the bad person benefits us against her, therefore let's lie to her". But it's the cumulative indirect costs of having our promises mean nothing in the long term that I'm not sure you are getting. Rules of behaviour, even when dealing with hated enemies, is not a matter of aesthetics that we are doing for our own pleasure, and we're not doing them for the sake of the person we gave our word to either.

It's about the capital of credibility.

Each promise we break, each truce, explicit or implied we violate, (and conversely each threat we don't follow through with) makes it harder for every following promise or threat to be taken seriously.

And if we only break our promises when the stakes are high, well then that means exactly that when the stakes are high our word will be missing credibility. We'll have the fame that our word can only be trusted when the stakes are low enough.

If our word to a very bad person means nothing, then good luck convincing the *next* very bad person that this time our word does mean something, at some point when (unlike now) we'll be desperate to have them believe it.
 
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If our word to a very bad person means nothing, then good luck convincing the *next* very bad person that this time our word does something, at some point whete (unlike now) we'll be desperate to have them believe it.
Oh, I know, but honestly, better luck capturing and throwing them into the slammer.

I care more to give the actual good people out there the feeling of safety and the dignity they deserve. I believe the people that actually would take a chance at doing better, those who actually deserve help, would be better served knowing that we don't honor monsters.

KB will likely use this against us, so we will have to start throwing our word around. Talk with Nadia, with all our friends and allies, let them know what Riona is, and why we chose to do a public service to the world.

Our word shouldn't have worth for unrepentant murderers and those on that level of humanity.

There's actual good people out there who need help.
 
Right, but do we actually need to give our word to Rionna to take her out? It seems to me that we mostly just... don't.

I don't think there's much she'll be willing to tell us without being forced to anyway, and Sayaka can probably provide most of the answers Rionna otherwise could, so... what's the point in lying about some nebulous future meeting we have no intentions of actually having?
 
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