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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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DB_Explorer said:
OK OK

question then for all the vote crafters and people who theory craft more then me. Given its both in character for Sabrina to 1) not let Rionna go and 2) try to redeem/reform her, 3) not want to die

... how do we do that?
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Same way we did with Airi. Gem her, then set up a controlled environment to therapy her*.

*Note: This may take some time to set up given Rionna's level of power. Completion before epilogue not guaranteed.
 
[x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
[x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
[x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
[x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
 
DB_Explorer said:
OK OK

question then for all the vote crafters and people who theory craft more then me. Given its both in character for Sabrina to 1) not let Rionna go and 2) try to redeem/reform her, 3) not want to die

... how do we do that?
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Click to shrink...
We can try to redeem her by trying to argue with her... (broken record: tomorrow, not tonight)... but if it looks outside of what we can accomplish with the time and effort we can put into Riona, and against the threat(s) Riona presents, then we'll have to give up on it.

At that point is a matter of how well (quickly and safely) we can take down Riona so she won't hurt anyone else.

And if we do capture and put her in meguca prison, we can still try to talk with her in the future.
 
Firnagzen said:
But just... letting Rionna go? I, personally, am having a very hard time reconciling that with Sabrina's character, and yes, she does have one at this point. She's nowhere near flawless, but she's someone who tries.
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You should feel free to veto ideas that you feel are contrary to the character, but I really don't like that you just banned a person, just because they had a different idea than the direction you wanted to take this story to, before you had actually even vetoed their ideas explicitly.

Right now I'm getting that the Muramasa vote is in effect vetoed. Nobody would want you to write something that you feel is against the character, I think, not even Muramasa.

In any case I'm switching my own vote in favour of:
[X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
[X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
[X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
Adhoc vote count started by Aris Katsaris on Sep 10, 2018 at 11:14 PM, finished with 144783 posts and 34 votes.
  • [x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
    [x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
    [x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
    [x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
    [X] Ask Rionna if you may cleanse her.
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary, but start with minimal force. What can be accomplished with words instead of force should be.
    [X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching.
    [X] Agree to end the meeting soon.
    -[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here. Maybe scratch this and instead:
    [X] Release the Field.
    [X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
    -[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves.
    -[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
    -[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
    [X] Go. Once you're away:
    -[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
    -[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
    [X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Agree to end the conversation, but not before calling Riona out on everything: she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing...
    -[X] Meanwhile, call Mami via grief for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Kill her
    [X] Promise agree to end the meeting. Because you're sick of it, not because she's asking.
    [X] But first:
    -[X] Call her out. On everything. Trying to use magic on you, threatening you, baiting you, everything.
    --[X] Use this.
    -[X] Get her to agree to concessions, as many as you can get without pissing her off too badly:
    --[X] Priority: Arrange another meeting before she leaves (morning?).
    --[X] She'll stay confined within a location of her choosing for the duration of her stay.
    --[X] She'll answer questions, now or at that later meeting, about:
    ---[X] Our Soul.
    ---[X] Clear Seeds.
    ---[X] Wish Rejection.
    ---[X] The Feather.
    ---[X] How the fuck is her name spelled.
    [X] Once Riona agrees to everything you can get her to, warn her to not try that again and dismiss the Privacy Field.
    -[X] Let Mami know before you dismiss the Field.
    -[X] Watch out in case she tries to pull something.
    [X] Get out. Timestop meeting. Mami hugs.
    -[X] Get Sayaka, Oriko and Kirika. This is important.
    -[X] Ask Kirika to make Anti Magic Enchantments for our group's use while you talk.
    -[X] Explain everything that can be explained about what just happened.
    -[X] Don't take a side. Be as impartial as possible, and do not support any course of action over another.
    [X] Try that shit again on anyone in your territory, or hurt anyone in Mitakihara, and her life is forfeit.
    [X] You'll let her go, but she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing—so you'll be taking something in exchange. Your teammate is going to copy her power before she leaves this privacy sphere. It won't harm her or her power in any way, nor can it be used to track or monitor her. But you'll be getting SOMETHING out of all the trouble she's caused you.
    [x] Ensure she doesn't leave this bubble under her own power, either by calling a meeting and then alpha-striking her or by alpha-striking her right now.
    [X] Shrug casually
    -[X] Alright. Wasn't planning on keeping you trapped anyways, anti-spy zone is for spies like QB, not you.
    --[X] Release the field, hug Mami, telepathically request time-stop.
    ---[X] Discuss.
    [X] Cleansing offer.
    [X] If that's so, then when and why did she go from seeking justice to judging people without knowing their crimes, unjustly taking other people's sisters? When did she give up, and start spending her time inflicting pain instead of trying to get her sister back?
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching. She could always punish the architect if she's not satisfied yet. A shot at that, you can provide.
    [X] null
    [X] gem her
    -[X] If she shows any sign of resisting after being gemmed, smash her
    [X] Mami: clandestinely communicate to contact Homura for a time stop ASAP
    [X] Buy some time until Homura arrives. Firmly discuss that, once the isolation field is down, Rionna will not be leaving her hotel room until she leaves for her flight. Any hostile actions on Mitakihara's residents will not be tolerated.
    - [X] Be prepared to defend yourself. Do not let Rionna leave the isolation field. Prioritise protecting yourself and Mami over Non-lethal methods.
    [X] Once in timestop: Hug Mami and Homura, then break to voting.
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Aris Katsaris on Sep 10, 2018 at 11:43 PM, finished with 144800 posts and 34 votes.
  • [X] null
    [X] Ask Rionna if you may cleanse her.
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary, but start with minimal force. What can be accomplished with words instead of force should be.
    [X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching.
    [X] Agree to end the meeting soon.
    -[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here. Maybe scratch this and instead:
    [X] Release the Field.
    [X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
    -[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves.
    -[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
    -[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
    [X] Go. Once you're away:
    -[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
    -[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
    [X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
    [x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
    [x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
    [x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
    [X] Agree to end the conversation, but not before calling Riona out on everything: she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing...
    -[X] Meanwhile, call Mami via grief for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Kill her
    [X] Promise agree to end the meeting. Because you're sick of it, not because she's asking.
    [X] But first:
    -[X] Call her out. On everything. Trying to use magic on you, threatening you, baiting you, everything.
    --[X] Use this.
    -[X] Get her to agree to concessions, as many as you can get without pissing her off too badly:
    --[X] Priority: Arrange another meeting before she leaves (morning?).
    --[X] She'll stay confined within a location of her choosing for the duration of her stay.
    --[X] She'll answer questions, now or at that later meeting, about:
    ---[X] Our Soul.
    ---[X] Clear Seeds.
    ---[X] Wish Rejection.
    ---[X] The Feather.
    ---[X] How the fuck is her name spelled.
    [X] Once Riona agrees to everything you can get her to, warn her to not try that again and dismiss the Privacy Field.
    -[X] Let Mami know before you dismiss the Field.
    -[X] Watch out in case she tries to pull something.
    [X] Get out. Timestop meeting. Mami hugs.
    -[X] Get Sayaka, Oriko and Kirika. This is important.
    -[X] Ask Kirika to make Anti Magic Enchantments for our group's use while you talk.
    -[X] Explain everything that can be explained about what just happened.
    -[X] Don't take a side. Be as impartial as possible, and do not support any course of action over another.
    [X] Try that shit again on anyone in your territory, or hurt anyone in Mitakihara, and her life is forfeit.
    [X] You'll let her go, but she's crossed a lot of lines—showing up in your territory without warning, permission, or excuse, trying to mind control you without provocation, making demands in exchange for nothing—so you'll be taking something in exchange. Your teammate is going to copy her power before she leaves this privacy sphere. It won't harm her or her power in any way, nor can it be used to track or monitor her. But you'll be getting SOMETHING out of all the trouble she's caused you.
    [x] Ensure she doesn't leave this bubble under her own power, either by calling a meeting and then alpha-striking her or by alpha-striking her right now.
    [X] Shrug casually
    -[X] Alright. Wasn't planning on keeping you trapped anyways, anti-spy zone is for spies like QB, not you.
    --[X] Release the field, hug Mami, telepathically request time-stop.
    ---[X] Discuss.
    [X] Cleansing offer.
    [X] If that's so, then when and why did she go from seeking justice to judging people without knowing their crimes, unjustly taking other people's sisters? When did she give up, and start spending her time inflicting pain instead of trying to get her sister back?
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching. She could always punish the architect if she's not satisfied yet. A shot at that, you can provide.
    [X] gem her
    -[X] If she shows any sign of resisting after being gemmed, smash her
    [X] Mami: clandestinely communicate to contact Homura for a time stop ASAP
    [X] Buy some time until Homura arrives. Firmly discuss that, once the isolation field is down, Rionna will not be leaving her hotel room until she leaves for her flight. Any hostile actions on Mitakihara's residents will not be tolerated.
    - [X] Be prepared to defend yourself. Do not let Rionna leave the isolation field. Prioritise protecting yourself and Mami over Non-lethal methods.
    [X] Once in timestop: Hug Mami and Homura, then break to voting.
Click to expand...
 
DB_Explorer said:
OK OK

question then for all the vote crafters and people who theory craft more then me. Given its both in character for Sabrina to 1) not let Rionna go and 2) try to redeem/reform her, 3) not want to die

... how do we do that?
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Click to shrink...
  1. Timestop
  2. Bind Rionna with ribbons while still inside the isolation field
  3. Gem her, freeze the body
Anti-magic cuffs+imprisonment seems also a possible option, but I think this is one Old Meguca that's still dangerous even without her powers.
 
DB_Explorer said:
OK OK

question then for all the vote crafters and people who theory craft more then me. Given its both in character for Sabrina to 1) not let Rionna go and 2) try to redeem/reform her, 3) not want to die

... how do we do that?

Edit:

Like I'm all *for* stopping her *now* but not *right now* I really don't want to start shit without allies. I know Firn wants us to act and not react but.... given timestop I don't see why we can't take time to call allies, get everyone on the same page and THEN act. Its an effective force multiplier.
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Freezer her, unfreezer after we've brought her sister back to life?
 
I don't want this to be a dig against you, @Firnagzen, but you did say:

Firnagzen said:
This isn't constructive. Maybe you didn't notice, but Rionna is absolutely a morally grey character, and Sabrina does behave morally. Perhaps erratically, but she always strives towards being a good person.
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I think when we get WoG that a character is 'morally grey', we try to make our conceptions fit into it, and think of the character as having good and bad. Someone who can be redeemed, definitely.

I don't know if this is nitpicking, but first you said morally grey, now you said it's actually-behind-the-scenes morally black. But the first thing you said kind of conditions what we'll think about the character, because it's your word.

I think it kind of sucks to say this, specially as I think you're already very careful with what you say as it is.
 
Onmur said:
I don't want this to be a dig against you, @Firnagzen, but you did say:



I think when we get WoG that a character is 'morally grey', we try to make our conceptions fit into it, and think of the character as having good and bad. Someone who can be redeemed, definitely.

I don't know if this is nitpicking, but first you said morally grey, now you said it's actually-behind-the-scenes morally black. But the first thing you said kind of conditions what we'll think about the character, because it's your word.

I think it kind of sucks to say this, specially as I think you're already very careful with what you say as it is.
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Click to shrink...

I'm pretty convinced Rionna managed to get fucked into where she is now one way or another, and that's the "grey" part of it -- that her backstory was (past tense) sympathetic somehow.

Doesn't change her extant morality, though.
 
I'm going to repeat myself

when this is over if/when we do that destress rant with Homura... its going to be SO cathartic.
 
Firnagzen said:
This is not acceptable behaviour. Not necessarily this post, but in general context of your posting in this thread, I consider it part of a wider context of problematic posting. You've been consistently civil, yes. But your posts, consistently, are an undercurrent of passive-aggressiveness nudging. I feel that your opinions and your actions are not a direction I want Sabrina or PMAS to go in, and I am issuing a threadban for two weeks for you, under Rule 4 - don't be disruptive. You can be perfectly polite, and express your opinions in a clear, cogent manner, but still be disruptive.
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So I've actually edited and clarified this section, because in retrospect, I wasn't clear. It's not about personal approval or disapproval from me.

Briefvoice, to address you in particular, I have no personal beef with you. And it's not this specific incident that I'm threadbanning you for, it's just the metaphorical straw. What I'm threadbanning you for is because despite your civility (which, let me be clear, I do appreciate), you consistently, passive-aggressively espouse actions and opinions that tend to drive arguments as opposed to discussion. Furthermore, you run consistently counter to the intents and the ideals of PMAS (and that, in itself, is part of why your presence disrupts the thread). That's why I'm threadbanning you under Rule 4, and to be clear, this is neither a Staff Notice nor an infraction. I requested, a long time ago, the right to threadban people in PMAS, and I'm exercising that right right now.

And more in general, why I'm taking these steps right now? Because I've got a definite idea for where I want PMAS, and thread to go. This specific scenario has succeeded in highlighting problems that I want and need to handle, both for the thread and for the story. Consider this thread curation, I suppose.

Spectral Waltz said:
That's kinda exactly what I was saying?

The intended thrust of my post was 'She's a monster, but a tragic one'.
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Fair enough, then.
 
theauthor said:
Do not cross that path. That way lies madness.
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I am forced into speech because posters of PMAS have refused to follow my advice without knowing why. It is altogether against my will that I tell my reasons for opposing this contemplated discussion with Rionna—with her vast knowledge of souls and her potential for dislodging and unmaking of the ancient witch-state—and I am the more reluctant because my warning may be in vain. Doubt of the real facts, as I must reveal them, is inevitable; yet if I suppressed what will seem extravagant and incredible there would be nothing left. The hitherto withheld Word of God, both general and specific, will count in my favour; for it is damnably vivid and graphic. Still, it will be doubted because of the great lengths to which wishful thinking can be carried. Her own testimony, of course, will be jeered at as obvious posturing; notwithstanding the strangeness of implied discussion technique which posters ought to remark and puzzle over.

In the end I must rely on the judgment and standing of the few vote creators who have, on the one hand, sufficient independence of thought to weigh my data on its own hideously convincing merits or in the light of certain primordial and highly baffling pop-culture references; and on the other hand, sufficient influence to deter the thread in general from any rash and overambitious programme in the region of this promulgation of madness.

:V
 
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