Finally caught up to the current chapter after a few weeks of reading and I have to say, I'm deeply impressed. Impressed by the length of this story-quest (and holy heck is it long) and its quality. I'm not very familiar with Madoka myself, haven't watched the anime or movies or anything (would probably be too dark for me), but I know the general gist of the plot due to internet exposure, but even so I could follow this story and enjoy it perfectly. I'm a sucker for fix fics, especially if it's children getting a rough deal, and the relationship between Mami and Sabrina is just heartwarming. Really have to comment on how well the QM here has written the character of Mami and her traumatic issues with loneliness and abandonment, it was really heartbreaking to read at times, kudos there.

I also have to commend Sabrina for her saintly amount of patience with the hostile magical girls she meets, especially since each new hostile girl seems determined to out-bitch the previous one. if it'd been me I admit I'd have blown my fuse a few times in the same situation, even as I was reading there were times when I just wanted to grab these girls and shake them while screaming "SWEET MOTHER OF ARCEUS, JUST LET HER HELP YOU YOU STUBBORN GIT!". But I suppose that wouldn't be very helpful, so it's good that I'm not Sabrina. Still, damn, that girl deserves a Nobel Prize for Peace at this point for putting up with all of it.

So, yeah, again, incredibly impressive work with this, @Firnagzen , especially for keeping this going for four years and still going strong! I think this might be one of my favourite quests I've read now.

On the topic of the current vote for Sabrina's next action, is it okay for people new to the topic to offer their two cents? I've read the last few pages to see which way the discussion is leaning, but I don't think I've seen anyone raise the possibility of the direction I'm thinking of yet.
 
On the topic of the current vote for Sabrina's next action, is it okay for people new to the topic to offer their two cents? I've read the last few pages to see which way the discussion is leaning, but I don't think I've seen anyone raise the possibility of the direction I'm thinking of yet.

Fresh meat
Welcome!
And by all means, do contribute.
As long as you do it in civil and constructive manner, no one will say anything about how new your particular strain of braindamage is.
 
Well, we've known/guesses Mami's got more magic capacity than us since day one, but I guess having it confirmed is nice.

Hmm, maybe Madoka's potential decreased by the amount we overwished. Meguca don't have the level of fidelity to detect the reduction because it still just registers as "fuckhuge". But kyubey would: if Madoka's potential decreased the exact moment we made our wish by the amount we overwished he probably already has a firm hypothesis as to what's going on.
I'm pretty sure I've read at some point in some of the PMMM materials that Soul Gem capacity is basically what's left over after creating the effects of the Wish, which was part of why it made sense why we could have less Soul Gem capacity than Mami while having such strong magic... and with all the weird stuff that happens around us...

I always thought it jives with the Madowish, that we don't have all ot Madoka's potential ourselves, since we're not the only effect her Wish had.

She Wished everything could be fixed, and that's a far more reaching Wish than just one to create someone strong and willing to fix things. Madoka's Wish has to account for the new timeline, introduced us into the story in a way we'd instantly gain some sympathy, probably activated Oriko to help us, seems to still be active and helping us help others, like the time we found Nagisa not having made a Wish (though that might have been due to Oriko)...

Keep in mind, if we had made a Wish for a stronger effect, we would've been hit with a tighter range reduction, which OOC may be Firn making sure we got around the power level we want, but he's someone who tends to have OOC and IC justifications be the same thing, so... Madoka?

Haha, but that would imply Sabrina's Soul Gem is actually a 100 meter invisible sphere around her body, and also that we are not really that different from a standard Grief bender, because we do transefer Grief from one Soul Gem to another: ours.
I've thought maybe it's Dedolere's Soul, rather than Sabrina's herself. :p
 
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What's the difference?
There isn't one. Even moreso then usual for a magical girl, even, given that our soul gem ring has DEDOLERE written on it, not SABRINA.
I think there must be a difference.

A meguca and their witch are the same and aren't the same. Same soul, but different states of being.

Or, if Dedolere is UKG or such, I've theorized in the past that perhaps our powers aren't different from that of any other Grief controller, we just have weird dimensional access to this Witch.

New poster intensifies
Well, that didn't last long. :V

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1,00137% longer than previous latest update!
 
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Well, we've known/guesses Mami's got more magic capacity than us since day one, but I guess having it confirmed is nice.


I'm pretty sure I've read at some point in some of the PMMM materials that Soul Gem capacity is basically what's left over after creating the effects of the Wish, which was part of why it made sense why we could have less Soul Gem capacity than Mami while having such strong magic... and with all the weird stuff that happens around us...

Erm, no, you're remembering a theory I kind of spread around.
 
*blush* Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome. So, since it's okay, on the topic of what to do next... Last chapter ended on this note:

"You can't help me," Rionna says, shaking her head. "Go back to your girl, go back to your friends. Y' don't want this fight, neither do I."

So, my question is, and I apologise if this has been raised and debunked as a bad idea before, but... What if we did like she asked? Meaning, return to Mami and leave? I know this might break Sabrina's winning streak, but hear me out, I do have my reasons for suggesting this. Though, again, if I missed anything, please let me know (it's a long quest and an even longer thread, I'm bound to have dropped something here or there).

Let's be fair here, Sabrina and the others weren't really prepared for this meeting. We knew it was coming, true, but we didn't know anything about Rionna beyond that. Then we meet her and she turns out to be very hostile, dismissive and above all dangerous. It only took like three or four updates for her to torpedo Sabrina's composure (and the audience's), which in-universe is like, what, a matter of minutes? The revelations about her shades and that she's, ehm, to put it diplomatically, morally questionable at best and the implied "I would have killed you and taken your soul already if I could have" certainly don't help. We're getting worked up and emotional, which is never a good thing for diplomacy, plus we're fighting an uphill battle because Rionna is already convinced this trip was wasted.

So, let her, I say.

Let her think what she wants for now, leave and let her take the first flight back to Edinburgh. It is my opinion that as it is, right now, we don't have the coolness of head, the time and especially the information to deal with her. Unless the Quest Master says that we have to deal with her now or never again, I think it'd be best. I'm not saying she shouldn't be dealt with or that what she does with people's souls is a situation that can stand, it can't, but, as hard as it is for me to say this, don't we already have enough on our plate right now? Shouldn't our primary focus be to gear ourselves up, fortify Mitakihari the best we can and get ready for and defeat Walpurgisnacht? I get that Rionna would probably be a very powerful ally to have against Walpurgisnacht, but to be quite frank, even if she would agree to help, I don't trust her and I find it way too risky to have her in the city until then. I also understand that de-witching is an important goal of ours and is something Rionna could help with, possibly, but I think we can all agree that this is a long-term goal and that Walpurgisnacht should come first.

So again, I say, just leave and let her go back to her home city. That way, we have several advantages: we won't have to worry about a dangerous magical girl while Walpurgisnacht is coming, for starters. Second, it gives us time to do research and reconnaicance on the situation in Edinburgh (it was Edinburgh, right?), meaning that when we do finally have time to give the Rionna problem our full time and attention, the next meeting with her will be on our terms, or at the very least we will be much better prepared. We were basically caught with our pants down, but now we know what she's like and that something's afoot. Let's not rush it! I really think this situation is very delicate and requires a careful approach, one that requires time and proper preparation. So let's take a step back to be able to do just that. Right now, I just don't feel safe talking to her, it would be much better if we could talk to her on a field of our chosing, or with all our forces and powers ready should things go south (*cough* anti-magic Kirika and/or Sayaka *cough*). At the moment, we're just too vulnerable to risk clipping the wrong wire in the bomb and having it go off, so to speak.

Another point to consider is something another user has voiced before (I apologise to that someone, I don't remember exactly who it was), namely that Rionna right now might not be taking us serious or be very dismissive of our opinion due to the fact that Sabrina is still basically a no-name newbie. She's kind of right, long as this story is from a reader's perspective, in-universe it's been less than a month, right? So returning to her and her situation after Walpurgisnacht might just be in our favour there! The word of "Sabrina the Newbie" might not be worth much, but the word of "Sabrina, of the Team that beat the Queen of all Witches" just might. Heck, if she hears of our exploits against Walpurgisnacht, Rionna might just come back or demand another meeting by herself. Just saying, putting this all on the backburner lets us build some rep and credit, so to speak.

Again, I understand Rionna's important and that the situation with the Shades needs to be adressed, but I think we should wait. Let's focus on Walpurgisnacht first. One city-threatening magical threat at a time, yes?

That's not to say I'm saying we just leave and take it on good faith that she'll do the same and go back to her home. Heck no, I don't trust her. I'd suggest that we agree with her for now, she wants us to leave thinking we can't help her, so let's just go "alright, if that's what you want", drop the privacy bubble, take Mami, say our goodbyes and leave the hotelroom. The moment we're out of that privacy bubble, I think we should contact Homura and ask her to be at ready to activate her timestop. Once we're out of Rionna's sight, activate that timestop, have Homura come and get us, then go and bring in the rest of the troops to brief them on the situation. Stay away from Rionna at all costs and let's just observe her through Sayaka's animals like we've been doing with Oriko, making sure that Rionna just goes back to the airport, boards a plane and leaves. Then breathe a sigh of relief.

The reason I suggest a timestop escape is because I'm afraid she'd try something like a sneak attack the moment our back is turned. I know she said neither of us wants this fight, but I'm not convinced she wouldn't roll the dice still if the odds were in her favour. So let's just leave and observe. If she peacefully leaves the country like she came into it, great! We can then focus on Walpurgisnacht, do our research and information gathering on Rionna and her city, then come back to it once Walpurgisnacht has been dealt with. If she doesn't leave peacefully and goes on, I don't know, a soul-gathering harvest spree or something equally disastrous, well, then our course of action should be obvious, no? Then she's the aggressor and we can deal with her appropriately.

So, ehm, yeah, that's what I was thinking following the latest developments. To summarise:
- Agree with her request to leave, for the following reasons:
1. We're getting worked up, emotion is no good for diplomacy and she's basically already clammed up and ended negotiations anyway.
2. We're unprepared to have this discussion right now. We simply know too little of her and her situation. Let her leave the country so we can do proper reconnaicance first, then deal with her at a later date when we know what we're doing and are up against.
3. Walpurgisnacht is coming and should be our priority, even if she offers to help, it is too dangerous or risky to accept her help and have her in the city before or during Walpurgisnacht (unless she can provide a really convincing argument).
4. Adding to the above is that our plate's full as it is, let's ensure Mitakihari is safe first before we start looking into the safety of another city on the other side of the world, yes?
5. Taking care of Walpurgisnacht first will give us some rep and credibility, hopefully, lending our words more weight. She might be more open to listen then.
- Leave, then get in timestop once out of sight. Brief everyone on the situation. Use Sayaka's animals for surveillances, ensure that Rionna goes back to the airport the next day and catches a flight back home.
- If she doesn't leave peacefully but hangs around or does something harmful, well, then that'd be another vote discussion to have, I'm sure?

That's my two cents for now. I hope I explained my reasoning for why I think this in enough depth? And again, I'm really, really sorry if this has been opted and voted away before and I just wasted everyone's time. >.<

You may now shoot my argument full of holes with irrefutable counterpoints.
 
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@Laurelin

1. Basically, the most obvious thing is the concern her gem blackens or she convinces herself to go further in targeting us. We are still her best lead in like, ever.
2. There's also the hypothesis that she doesn't want to bring it up because of our earlier moral outrage.
3. Beyond that the only issues are ones of morality.
 
@Laurelin

A lot of people in thread aren't going to be alright with letting Rionna leave and keep doing what she does. At the moment the comromise the internal thread factions have reached is that we'll try to get Rionna to stop by having her work with us, where we can keep an eye on her and work on redeeming her.

The fallback position of the thread at the moment isn't "let her go", it's "gem her and keep the gem in an antimagic box".
 
It is my opinion that as it is, right now, we don't have the coolness of head, the time and especially the information to deal with her.

We have a practical goal to achieve before she goes when I'm thinking about this. I expect us to damage her self-imposed isolation thinking. How much time between refuting her worldview, and a change in her actions is up to her, not us. That conversation can occur now, and perhaps not later. Rionna lives in a manner that reinforces her unapproachable position. If we use enough force later, we could wind up with another Akiko. She is voluntarily (if rudely) in conversation right now. We can only benefit by using that opening.

Welcome, @Laurelin . Please rest assured, aside from the main cast being lichs, Madoka Magica isn't simply a horror experience. Try just a bit? As a fan, I sorta always say that... hehehe. In PMAS, there is more hope in a conventional sense. Also, watching the original will awaken your hate of Kyuubey properly.

Also, speckled enchantment time, @Onmur ! I'm thinking that we need a provisional set of Proton Packs, sensors and containment gear? Who is going to clean out our city?
 
Extending on the problem with the anti-magic box plan, putting a clear seed in there means she has a potential soul to work with.

Edit: Ninjaed. I'm assuming the anti-magic box prevents things outside from effecting the inside and vice versa.

Edit2: that a clear seed outside can't cleanse the gem inside but a clear seed inside is a shade to break her out.
 
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The fallback position of the thread at the moment isn't "let her go", it's "gem her and keep the gem in an antimagic box".
And then maybe we can put some anti magic cuffs on her and send her to The Super Fun Meguca House at Fukushima so Anri can have a new playmate. :V

Could we even use our power in an anti-magic field? Or would we have to try cleansing the old fashioned way? Have we tested whether or not grief seeds work in an anti-magic field?
Kirika's anti magic is selective.
 
Kirika's anti magic is selective.

Do you remember the basis for that out of curiosity?
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Aug 8, 2018 at 11:50 AM, finished with 143271 posts and 32 votes.

  • [X] You're starting to think you want to help her with this. Why can't you?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, and it would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, then fair warning, we're pretty sure we have the vast majority of the picture worked out already.
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, see if you can slip in that you're interested in dewitching. But, don't try to stretch things to achieve that.
    [x] Think out loud.
    [x] Why do you think that Rionna is so sure you can't help? You have two guesses.
    [x] First guess: Rionna has some problem that's even more exotic and difficult than cleansing.
    -[x] She seems to already have cleansing solved for herself, judging by her power's ongoing cost. She knows you can cleanse and isn't interested.
    -[x] You hope it's this because you're currently working on dewitching and were anticipating Rionna's arrival. You're not sure there's much that's harder than that.
    [x] Second guess: Rionna is doing something that puts her on Sabrina's List of Things To Fix.
    -[x] Is the problem with the means to an end or the end itself?
    -[x] You hope it's the means, because your entire purpose in life is to fix everything, and you're damn good at offering people better means.
    -[x] If it's the ends, well, you're always up for therapy. How does she feel about her mother?
    [x] I want to help fix things. Does it have to be a fight?
    [x] Whatever it is you're dealing with, it was worth coming out all this way here. At the very least I can hear you out. Rionna, why did you come out here? What's troubling you?
    [x] (If she's still reluctant) Try to encourage her to talk about her problems. You won't be able to help at all if you don't know what the problem is.
    [x] Why do we have to fight? She wants something. So do we. We can work together.
    [x] Show her Aurora. Properly explain the Clear Seed: the sheer amount of Grief removed, the quiescent nature of the witch inside, that you'd been feeding it hope magic.
    -[x] This might be the first step to turning a witch back into a person. We want to do that and we think she can help us.
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    [X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
    -[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
    [X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
    -[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
    [X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
    [X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
    [X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
    -[X] Offer her the Clear Seed without the happiness magic in it.
    [x] One of the first things you said was that I can't exactly give you my magic.
    - [x] What did you want it for? What would you expect to be able to do with it that you assume I can't or won't do for you?
    [x] Mention something about dewitching. Maybe it's what she wants from us, maybe it's not, but it's certainly what we want from her.
    [X] Bring up our dewitching efforts, including the progress we've made. That, with some help, we might be on the verge of a breakthrough.
    [x] "Right. Rionna. I haven't actually told my offer yet, have I?"
    -[x] "Show me a grief seed, and I can make it last for a lifetime. Would that be the help you were looking for?"
    [X]'You're right I don't want a fight with you, but if you ever change your mind about accepting my help, you know how to get in touch.'
    [X]'Before you leave, could you examine this clear seed with your soul sense? I've been really needing a qualified second opinion on these.'
    -[X]Listen to what she says.
    --[X]Explain what you know. 'To my senses, this seed feels.... calm, peaceful. Do you think this could be a step toward reversing the soul gem's metamorphosis?'
    ---[X]Listen to response and break for voting.
    [x] Why can't you help her?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, or Rionna tries to leave, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, as long as they're willing to stop once it's not needed. It would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, assure her that you're able and willing to keep secrets even from very close friends - (gesture at Mami).
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, or if she asks what our interest in cooperation is, mention that you're interested in dewitching.
    [X] Deliver points with force. Counter her negatives.
    [X] Tell Rionna that we need to make a soul gem. Her soul vision is important.
    [X] We are not fighting her. Punishment isn't our only response.
    [X] State that saving absolutely everybody is our goal. Helping is our strength. Even strangers.
    [X] Feed Happiness to a Clear Seed right now, in front of her.
    [X] Turning witches back into girls is important to us.
    [X] Proof - We can visit Anri.
    [X] Body fabrication is possible. Grief doesn't form a normal Magical Girl. Others tried it.
    [X] Explain we understand perfectly the evils Magical Girl life leads her to do, whatever they are. Nothing new to see here.
    [X] If any of that would help with her issue, it's time to deal squarely with us. Her wish is right here.
    [X] We can almost communicate with witches.
 
Do you remember the basis for that out of curiosity?
Can't find a better quote right now, but Kirika can make her Anti Magic not affect meguca she has met, if she chooses.
"So, antimagic needs to be tuned to you, right?" Kirika chirps, with a grin at Yuki.

"Just so," Yuki says.
You reach out mentally as you speak. "Kirika, still negotiating and just checking - would you mind meeting someone so you could key the antimagic to them?"

"Eh? 'course not!" Kirika says.
 
@Laurelin

A lot of people in thread aren't going to be alright with letting Rionna leave and keep doing what she does. At the moment the comromise the internal thread factions have reached is that we'll try to get Rionna to stop by having her work with us, where we can keep an eye on her and work on redeeming her.

The fallback position of the thread at the moment isn't "let her go", it's "gem her and keep the gem in an antimagic box".

I sorta get that, but again, I'm not arguing for letting her go forever, just for now, until Walpurgisnacht is dealt with and we can focus and prepare on and for Rionna properly. It just seems, well, more practical. I'm aware that she needs to stop what she's doing and am fully in agreement with it, but I also think that we've kinda sorta reached a point where we'll have to make some hard decisions. Playing devil's advocate for a tiny bit but, Rionna's been doing what she's doing for a while now, will letting her do it for two to four more weeks at most make such a difference?

I just don't think we can convince her at the moment, we're diplomatically on the backfoot here while she holds all the cards. I suppose we can gem her and keep that under lock and key, but in that case, my question is this: are we absolutely certain we can gem her without or with minimal risk to ourselves and our allies? And if not, is it worth the risk of endangering our current force of magical girls already at our disposal for Walpurgisnacht? I think that should always be at the forefront of our minds. If we do have a safe way of gemming her if she doesn't want to cooperate, then I'm all for it, but otherwise, I'd prefer we kept all risk to ourselves or our friends and allies to an absolute minimum. We'll have so much more freedom of movement and options once Walpurgisnacht is past (I hope).

We have a practical goal to achieve before she goes when I'm thinking about this. I expect us to damage her self-imposed isolation thinking. How much time between refuting her worldview, and a change in her actions is up to her, not us. That conversation can occur now, and perhaps not later. Rionna lives in a manner that reinforces her unapproachable position. If we use enough force later, we could wind up with another Akiko. She is voluntarily (if rudely) in conversation right now. We can only benefit by using that opening.

Welcome, @Laurelin . Please rest assured, aside from the main cast being lichs, Madoka Magica isn't simply a horror experience. Try just a bit? As a fan, I sorta always say that... hehehe. In PMAS, there is more hope in a conventional sense. Also, watching the original will awaken your hate of Kyuubey properly.

That's a valid point, she is listening right now, true. The way things are going, I think the next update will be the make it or break it point. I suppose we should try to learn from her what we can, get questions answered if possible, as long as we're careful not to push too hard and tick her off. Depending on how she responds, if it's clear that she's done talking or is not going to change her mind or work with us, I'd still suggest we let her leave for now, until we can deal with her later when we're in a more secure position. Unless if we really do have a safe way of gemming and boxing her, but I dunno, someone as experienced as Rionna, I can't see it being that easy to try.

And thank you for the welcome, @HeroCycle . ^_^

So, in summary, I understand people have (very understandable) moral objections to just letting Riona walk off, and if there's a way we can get through to her to make her stop or we can gem her or defeat her with little to no risk to ourselves or our friends, I'm all for it. But if not, I'd cautiously suggest we wait and put her on a backburner for now. I know that sucks and would probably taste very bitter to Sabrina (and the audience), but, well, Rionna's not the only fish we have to fry and we need to keep that in mind when making our decisions, too. I'm really undecided on what to do otherwise, but then I have the social skills of a molusk. I think next update will be the decisive moment and make our course more clear, based on how she reacts to us pressuring her a bit more with questions, like the general concencus for now seems to be.

If she reacts well, good, then we're making progress. If not, well, in that case I'd be more strongly in favour of my proposed hands-off-for-now approach.

I'd have felt far more at ease and be more willing to take some risks if we'd been able to have Homura or Kirika / Sayaka on standby before we went into this minefield. x.x Timestop may be hax but it's a good hax to have for when things go boobs up.
 
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Do you remember the basis for that out of curiosity?

In addition to what Onmur brought up, her antimagic didn't affect Oriko when we were fighting, and Kirika explicitly described it as selective.

Here's the cite:
"So how do your powers work?" you ask her, turning as far as you can without disturbing Mami - just far enough to see Kirika on the edge of your vision. A thought strikes you, and you add, hastily, "Don't demonstrate now!"

"I know that!" Kirika replies, bouncing indignantly. "I'm not stupid!"

"Right, sorry," you apologize. "Just... y'know, it'd be really dangerous if you did that, yeah?"

"OK!" she says brightly. "Anyway, I can choose who my magic affects. You, uh, might have noticed."

"Mmm, good to know," you say. "How about shaping the blast? Like, projecting a cone or something?"

Kirika shrugs. "Yeah, I can! Can completely melt a Witch like that, too. Kinda funny. I hit the Witch, and then it goes 'oh nooooo I'm meeeeelllltiiiing' and then splat." She waves her hands above her head and then flops bonelessly to the carpet to demonstrate, before rolling over and grinning at you. "Well, after I hit it a few times, anyway.*
 
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[X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
[X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
-[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
[X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
-[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
[X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
[X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
[X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
-[X] Offer her the Clear Seed without the happiness magic in it.
I dig it, but if I can make a suggestion?

[X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
[X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
-[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
[X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
-[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
[X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
[X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
[X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
[x] Because the truth is... you need her help, too.
[x] Show her Aurora. Explain Clear Seeds: the sheer quantity of Grief removed, the quiescent nature of the witch inside, how you've tried feeding this one hope magic and it seems to be accepting it.
-[x] It might be possible to turn a witch back into a girl. This might be the first step.
 
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