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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Torgamous said:
Sorry, I've been on vacation and unable to keep up with the thread. What boon do I provide and who am I a companion to?
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a) We never need to sharpen your prose, always cuts just like new

b) Sabrina's? That, is a social variable you export, not I. This is a social environment, so 'companion' seems like a "relatedness word" that conforms.

See "a)", above

Happy Vacation
 
I realized a carrot we can offer her. Status as our insurance policy.

[X] Take a moment to calm down.
-[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.

[X] Riona's brand of 'justice' should cease to be necessary. You've got the resources to do things more humanely than her and intend to acquire more. She should stop.
[X]You can make grief seeds last longer, ease their suffering but that doesn't actually solve the prisoner inside them.
[X]You want what I have. I want to replicate what I have. Ubiquitous, widespread, cleansing. Widespread enough to risk making Kyubey take more direct action. If he's part of a T4 Kardashev species that could be very bad.
[X]According to Kyubey witchification staves off the heat death of the universe with the largest energy yields. You don't buy that though. Probably another half truth.
[X]If the worst happens, if you're slain, the dream must not die with you. Stop taking souls. Work with you to evaluate souls for rebodiment or release into whatever afterlife exists. Free cleansing and you get to be my insurance policy if you can claim me.
 
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CornyBones said:
Its on topic to be frank about our goals, but we should also answer her question about our origin.
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Do you mean "we should go on at greater length? IIRC, we did give her the facts. Maybe we should leave it at that, and answer "what our morality and our nature allow us to do."
The difference is "literal answer, poor precision." Or we can give her "functional answer, with proof."

Conjured Blade said:
I realized a carrot we can offer her. Status as our insurance policy.

[X] Take a moment to calm down.
-[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.

[X] Riona's brand of 'justice' should cease to be necessary. You've got the resources to do things more humanely than her and intend to acquire more. She should stop.
[X]You can make grief seeds last longer, ease their suffering but that doesn't actually solve the prisoner inside them.
[X]You want what I have. I want to replicate what I have. Ubiquitous, widespread, cleansing. Widespread enough to risk making Kyubey take more direct action. If he's part of a T4 Kardashev species that could be very bad.
[X]According to Kyubey witchification staves off the heat death of the universe with the largest energy yields. You don't buy that though. Probably another half truth.
[X]If the worst happens, if you're slain, the dream must not die with you. Stop taking souls. Work with you to evaluate souls for rebodiment or release into whatever afterlife exists. Free cleansing and you get to be my insurance policy if you can claim me.
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Dramatic, and finding original stuff. Good Work!
I still want to go with "listen her to death."

My vote is concerned with the extension of our primary impulse, save (fix everything.) Rionna has come to us half-broken. We should re-make her morality. Sabrina has established this as a character trait. After we get that rolling, the other things relating to Rionna become easier to fix.
 
"Rionna, you've dropped quite the bombshell on me. But I've decided that I'm going to commit to helping you become a better person."

"You're gonna tell me not to take people's souls?"

"I'm going to teach you manners."

"Oh, you poor soul."
 
Onmur said:
Ah, yes, she ran out of cider.


[Q] Hug Mami protectively.
-[Q] "You can't have her. Mine."
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This would actually make me think there is a reason she has been ignoring Mami, beyond her bad social skills. It is a coping strategy.

She is here on a 'mission.' Rionna goes on these 'missions' now and again, meets the bad girls, and kills them. She is perhaps trying to keep from humanizing us. Further while Mami might be a small-fry to her power when 'alone,' comboing Mami and aberrant Sabrina might represent actual risk that her OHKO plan could fail. On top of that, she might feel Homura out there. She is trying to contain her own emotional state through anti-social behavior?

I'm wondering what her reply to our DVD would be? Nahhhhh.....

@SaltyWaffles - You, ups of thumbs have get.
 
Onmur said:
My thinking is that Riona will probably see us (demanding) asking her to release all the souls as an offense, as us trying to force her to give up her power. I want to mitigate that, push towards the moral side of things; if anybody chose to become one of Riona's soul slaves, I guess we can't interfere there. Everyone else, though...
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Again, I don't see willing participants being a large enough percentage to make a difference one way or another.

Maybe we should try asking if these things are even possible before we start demanding them. We know basically nothing about how this works. Can they be released? Would they go to an afterlife or just wander the Earth as restless undead? Can they be restored to life? Will it require research to figure out how? Will they need new bodies? What are we going to do with them once they are?

Something I like about Conjured Blade's vote is that it draws a parallel between us and Riona. A Clear Seed is a girl's soul. We are also using souls "for the greater good" because we don't know what else to do. We want to find a better way. Maybe Riona does, too. Offer to help her find it.
 
The Narrator said:
parallel between us and Riona.
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This is the best "step two!"
First step is getting a good full story to come out of her.

Skelm said:
if that's what you mean.
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Yes, I thought it was within their bans?

One way or another, I'm being literal that her flask is there as a very real crutch. Even if she acetyl- or lacto- fermented by accident, or skunked her cider, or made vinegar, it is doing something for her mood.
 
This was originally brought up by @LadyLynn in the discord server, but I didn't see it here and I think its a great idea. We could use grief haxx to make a lie detector in timestop. Then, we could ask Riona about her powers and know if she was telling us the truth.

Frankly I think its something we really need to do, given what we already know about her powers, and how dangerous she is. A security blanket can't hurt.
 
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"Lie detector" and "soul/mind shielding" were on our to-do list before Riona interrupted. I suspect that was intentional on Firn's part. :p
 
"Rionna, I really want to change things so that you don't need to resort to the kind of atrocities you're committing in order to try to help."

"They deserved it. Except for--bah, almost all of them deserved it, and it's a real shame I can't undo the others. I was a fool when I first got started."

"No, they didn't. No one deserves that. Not even you."

"Yeh, they do! Even me, and even you! This is JUSTICE!"

"It's EVIL! Now, give me the damned flask, and never create such foulness again!"

HeroCycle said:
Also, our kind sponsors do not have complete first amendment freedom as a goal here. I doubt that there "could" be alcohol in her drink?
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Just to let you know, she could be chugging moonshine and it wouldn't be a rules violation.
 
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I am aware of a parallel in use of powers between Rionna and Delight from one of Alvaril's quests.

Both do some really horrifying shit that they rationalize as fair.

Differences are that Delight was already locked up when discovered, had a murderous intent towards the person who locked her up, and straight up bribed the Questers to free her immediately with a threat if they took their time.

I actually am urging the same thing I did then, investigate before taking any irreversible actions.

She could turn out to be every bit as horrible, or worse, than those of you expect, however she could actually have had no other recourse than to use the powers she was given in order to build up a foundation that makes her powerful enough to enforce her brand of justice.

Base wise, she's probably dependent on defeating someone physically in order to steal their soul, but with the help of her Shades she could probably afford to sit back and let them subdue her enemies for her.

That doesn't justify sneak attacking her when she's come in peace however!

Also we think body-killing and gemming is reversible, but when would ever be a good time to release her? She would always be hostile to the person who sneak attacked her under a truce. She has a power we can't detect nor understand. And it's even very likely she could still use it as a gem.

Perpetual imprisonment for the 'crime' of being one whe perpetually imprisons other ofrenders is a rather hypocritical stance to take. And we don't even have the excuse of not having other options.
 
@Onmur ?

[X] Take a moment to calm down.
-[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
-[X] Don't monologue. Listen to Rionna, give her a chance to expand or explain her perspective.

[X] Explain you're creating a better world.
-[X] Admit Riona's actions as claimed might have been necessary in the past.
-[X] Explain your work and hopes regarding implementing justice, protection, equity and accountability for Magical Girls. (etc.)
--[X] Riona's brand of 'justice' should cease to be necessary.
-[X] Explain free cleansing distribution.
--[X] Clear Seeds, upsides and downsides. Need for a better, moral solution.
-[X] De-Witching.
--[X] You're creating a network to work on it. You hope Riona can help.

[X] You want to work together.
-[X] You are afraid to trust her with a Clear Seed yet, since you don't know her.
--[X] Invite Riona to stick around, free cleansing as long as she stays, get to know each other.
--[X] Ask again that she considers working together.
-[X] Regarding her claims:
--[X] You can't abide her taking any more Souls, for reasons stated; moral, ethical and practical concerns.
--[X] Ask whether she can restore, and if not, release the Souls she's taken, at least those taken by force.
---[X] Part of the standards we want to set are humane treatment.
---[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary. You know that it'll take time.
 
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[X] Redshirt Army

Seems good. We should use this update to both understand her perspective better and explain our own. The actual negotiation can come after. It's important to make it clear that we can't agree to what she's doing, but it's too early to make demands and throw down ultimatums.
 
The only thing remaining, I think, is to see how Riona reacts to a binding agreement that makes her stay in our city for indeterminate length of time.

Nothing to be done about it, because that's actually our goal. :V
... Goal that won the majority of votes.
 
The name votes for Redshirt aren't getting picked up by the tally properly just FYI...
Adhoc vote count started by Spectral Waltz on Jul 31, 2018 at 8:47 AM, finished with 142245 posts and 67 votes.
  • [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] Explain you're creating a better world.
    -[X] Admit Riona's actions as claimed might have been necessary in the past.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes regarding implementing justice, protection, equity and accountability for Magical Girls. (etc.)
    --[X] Riona's brand of 'justice' should cease to be necessary.
    -[X] Explain free cleansing distribution.
    --[X] Clear Seeds, upsides and downsides. Need for a better, moral solution.
    -[X] De-Witching.
    --[X] You're creating a network to work on it. You hope Riona can help.
    [X] You want to work together.
    -[X] You are afraid to trust her with a Clear Seed yet, since you don't know her.
    --[X] Invite Riona to stick around, free cleansing as long as she stays, get to know each other.
    --[X] Ask again that she considers working together.
    -[X] Regarding her claims:
    --[X] You can't abide her taking any more Souls, for reasons stated; moral, ethical and practical concerns.
    --[X] Ask whether she can restore, and if not, release the Souls she's taken, at least those taken by force.
    ---[X] Part of the standards we want to set are humane treatment.
    ---[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [x] Redshirt Army
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] Riona's brand of 'justice' should cease to be necessary. You've got the resources to do things more humanely than her and intend to acquire more. She should stop.
    [X]You can make grief seeds last longer, ease their suffering but that doesn't actually solve the prisoner inside them.
    [X]You want what I have. I want to replicate what I have. Ubiquitous, widespread, cleansing. Widespread enough to risk making Kyubey take more direct action. If he's part of a T4 Kardashev species that could be very bad.
    [X]According to Kyubey witchification staves off the heat death of the universe with the largest energy yields. You don't buy that though. Probably another half truth.
    [X]If the worst happens, if you're slain, the dream must not die with you. Stop taking souls. Work with you to evaluate souls for rebodiment or release into whatever afterlife exists. Free cleansing and you get to be my insurance policy if you can claim me.
    [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Gem her by cutting her hand off and obliterating her body.
    -[x] Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls.
    -[x] Assume she can operate while gemmed. Avoid touching the gem or hand with grief so she can't take your soul through it or get pulled into time stop.
    -[x] Be prepared for either time stop or a countermeasure.
    [x] Onmar
    [x] Communicate to Mami via grief: potential foe, high threat, move away, timestop on signal. Arrange some sort of simple, clear and fast signal using grief.
    [x] Calmly ask what that makes her. How many people has she done this to, and under what circumstances. We'll listen.
    [x] She's keeping people as slaves. We wanted to work with her, so so much. We want to make a world where the things she's seen don't happen to anyone.
    [x] What's done is done, but she can stop now if she chooses to. Could she let the shades go?
    [x] Make her an offer- Clear Seeds, money, whatever. Bluntly state we want to help her get what she wants that doesn't involve harming others. Will she stop?
    [x] If she tries to leave the bubble or otherwise stop talking without agreeing to let the souls she's enslaved go:
    -[x] If possible, signal for timestop and bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    --[x] Otherwise, bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] Hear her out if she explains.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Can the Souls be restored or otherwise released to wherever they go after death?
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportunity to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    --[X] Perhaps we seem too idealistic and naive, and we know that sometimes a horrible criminal just can't be redeemed. Still, we want to try.
    [X] Don't grant approval, but give body language and cues that she should keep talking at any time.
    -[X] Use active listening, adding "go on" and "so,?" etc. to encourage her to talk more.
    [X] Remain calm. There are worse people, and she didn't come to assault us.
    [X] Rionna is speaking like she hasn't trusted anyone in a long time.
    -[X] At some later point, explain our real magic is about working together. We will show her.
    [X] Rionna is probably both inebriated, and full of anxiety... enough to tank negotiations to escape her pain?
    -[X] Her brashness is a front. She is very defensive ATM.
    -[X] She told us to judge her, as a way to deal with us doing just that. This has happened to her before. Powers discrimination?
    -[X] Rionna has a simple morality that she believes in very strongly.
    --[X] She is not a good philosopher, there are contradictions
    --[X] She isn't very wise
    ---[X] or mature, though she is playing at the role of adulthood in the way she understands how.
    [X] Talk about Rionna.
    -[X] Ask Rionna to list her goals. How old is Rionna? Personal history?
    --[X] Don't follow up about sister
    --[X] insist on talking about her self interest.
    [X] Learn her actual wish, and contract story.
    -[X] Generic answer was not enough. We need to know her.
    [X] Our basic help is free to her
    -[X] we are more than a simple charity
    -[X] artificial Grief Seeds are needed
    -[X] spreading cleansing and our ability to everyone.
    -[X] Does her ideal world look more like Mitakihara?
    -[X] Serious about de-witching
    [X] Will she stay with us a while?
    [X] Ask details about her powers. What she does with them in her city. Things she wants to try, but hasn't
    [X] Other points: we are the good person we want to be. Describe our soul. Meet our friends, and see proof. How does her telepathy work?
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    -[X] Don't monologue. Listen to Rionna, give her a chance to expand or explain her perspective.
    [X] Explain you're creating a better world.
    -[X] Admit Riona's actions as claimed might have been necessary in the past.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes regarding implementing justice, protection, equity and accountability for Magical Girls. (etc.)
    --[X] Riona's brand of 'justice' should cease to be necessary.
    -[X] Explain free cleansing distribution.
    --[X] Clear Seeds, upsides and downsides. Need for a better, moral solution.
    -[X] De-Witching.
    --[X] You're creating a network to work on it. You hope Riona can help.
    [X] You want to work together.
    -[X] You are afraid to trust her with a Clear Seed yet, since you don't know her.
    --[X] Invite Riona to stick around, free cleansing as long as she stays, get to know each other.
    --[X] Ask again that she considers working together.
    -[X] Regarding her claims:
    --[X] You can't abide her taking any more Souls, for reasons stated; moral, ethical and practical concerns.
    --[X] Ask whether she can restore, and if not, release the Souls she's taken, at least those taken by force.
    ---[X] Part of the standards we want to set are humane treatment.
    ---[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary. You know that it'll take time.
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Spectral Waltz said:
The name votes for Redshirt aren't getting picked up by the tally properly just FYI...
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Can confirm. I even doublechecked the correct options had been selected and ran it again.

@Redshirt Army @Onmur I think it would be okay to admit to Riona that we're a bit disturbed and horrified by this whole soul-stealing thing. For all we know she's telling us this as a test of character to see what our own moral stances are. We could then use that to launch into an explanation of the similar dilemma we face with the use of Clear Seeds.
 
We could be worse of with regards to Rionnas personality... (Or her witch name.)

"My dear sweet child, that's what I do! It's what I live for, to help unfortunate folks like yourself, poor souls with noone else to turn to..."

"I admit that in the past I've been a nasty...
They weren't kidding when they called me, well, a bitch.
But you'll find that nowadays I've mended all my ways, repented seen the light and made a switch..."
 
Random832 said:
I do remember there being an iteration of the rules where it would be, but that might have been on Spacebattles.
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Substance abuse is not a breach of rules, per se, but it's still a sensitive topic that goes in hand with other, much less acceptable things. That's on SV, dunno about SB.

... Wait a second.
She drinks cider.
Magically distilled non-alcoholic cider.
Check and mate, atheists SB!Riona confirmed!

Nevermind, nothing about alcoholism in SB rules.
Besides, have you ever heard of Asuka!Quest by TheOneMoiderah?
 
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