Another one we could add to the list of people who know: Anri, and that it's related to why she's so insane. Just to further underline the potential for bad consequences.
 
I don't think we know whether Yuki (Fukushima leader) is Witchbombed?

I guess... my mind omitted O&K there, because I feel like telling Sayaka that they know... might help piss her off? Something something?

I guess we should include them for completeness' sake. We are, after all, talking about revealing secrets. :/

Yuki knows
Nadia told us so, remember?
 
Sabrina: "And you're Kiritsugu."
Homura: "..."
Sabrina: "Which makes you family!"
Homura:




I'm thinking along these lines. With Sayaka, it's a matter of making the right first impression.

So... "Sayaka, I'm giving you the power to kill my gf" is a pretty strong first impression.
I shouldn't be laughing at this, but I am.

Homura: ....Wait, wouldn't that make Sayaka the future version of my son? Or daughter in this case?

Sabrina: ...... Oh. My god.

Homura: What?

Sabrina: NOTHING!
 
We can make a privacy shield that prevents eavesdropping.

Can we go hardcore on that and make a memory shield?

It'd work like this: we go in, we tell her. She decides she doesn't need to know. The shield collapses and all information other than that she chose not to know is erased.
 
We can make a privacy shield that prevents eavesdropping.

Can we go hardcore on that and make a memory shield?

It'd work like this: we go in, we tell her. She decides she doesn't need to know. The shield collapses and all information other than that she chose not to know is erased.

Even if we can't, Sayaka has memory editing powers herself, so she could theoretically amnesia dust herself.
 
[x] Funny you should ask. We were just discussing that.
[x] Have Sayaka give us her full attention. This is Serious Business.
[x] When we told Mami the truth about Soul Gems and how Kyubey was manipulating her, the emotional trauma almost killed her. And this secret is even worse.
[x] We gave a Mami a choice whether or not to know this, and she chose not to. Which was a relief, because magical girls that learn this have been known to take their own life or go insane.
[x] If we tell you this, you have to keep the secret. You can't tell your friends. You can't let it slip in a moment of anger. You can't even talk about it with other people in the know unless we take measures to ensure secrecy, like Homura's timestop or our privacy sphere.
[x] With all that said, think about whether or not you really want to know this. We won't be able to tell you until after school when we can meet with your real body inside a privacy sphere. Use that time to think about whether or not this is a burden you want to put on yourself.
 
First quote I found suggesting Yuki knows.

"Airi struck while half the Pleiades were over in Mitakihara, visiting," you say. "Mami and I felt behooved to intervene, and we did, along with more of our friends from Mitakihara. Ultimately, we captured Airi, but..." You grimace unhappily. "Mami doesn't know about Witches, and I want to protect her from that. I can't in good conscience ask one of my friends to hold her."

"Which leaves an external contractor!" Yuki finishes the thought, smiling brightly. "And that's where we come in. Tell me more."
 
I feel we'd need to Pleiades' help for that.
If we want to make it reliable and reusable, sure; but I think for our own use grief can emulate magic, and this is mg magic (not wish magic afaik?) that we know exists.

Even then, I think asking the Pleiades would be worth it, as this capability would be immensely useful for ethical bomb management.
 
[X] Funny she should bring that up. we were just talking with Homura about sharing with her.
-[X] She's asking the wrong question. It's not a matter of whether she should know. It's whether she would want to. And she had better listen to this, and listen well.
--[X] Explain the concept of a memetic hazard.
---[X] Explain Mami's stance on this information. Someone could do her serious harm by speaking about this information.
---[X] Imply that Homura and Niko have both been heavily affected by this and that it changes a person's outlook on life, when it doesn't just kill them. Mostly it just kills them.
----[X] She would be expected to keep this under wraps 24/7, even if she thinks she's talking to someone who knows. If she talks to a potential -- Madoka -- about it, Homura might kill her. If she talks to Mami about it, you'll...
-----[X] Do not talk to Mami about it.
-----[X] You are concerned about her ability to avoid so much as accidentally dropping a hint about this stuff after she has been told, especially given that you don't have a really accurate idea of how it would affect her beyond "unlikely to die horribly or suffer massive personality failure." She simply doesn't have a huge track record of absolute secrecy and there's no good way for her to build one.
------[X] But you will tell her, if she wants.

Ok that hits every point I'd want to make! Somebody abbreviate it and omit a bunch of stuff until I hate their vote but accept it anyway <3

- we were just talking about telling her (demonstrates we weren't planning to leave her out)
- About whether she wants to know, not if she should (establish critical paradigm)
- Memetic hazard (abbreviates "this kills people if you talk about it")
- Homura and Niko have been changed by this (try to explain that she's not getting through this without it shifting her viewpoint immensely, because it will: witches aren't monsters and she isn't a swaahbuckling hero, at least not nearly in the same way. Also being expected to use seeds knowing what they are, which is probably worse.)
- Don't Tell Mami
- Or Madoka
- Or anyone else
- even if you think they know
- seriously don't tell Mami
- seriously, just don't tell ANYONE
- We are worried that she may not be able to keep a perfect lid on this after she is told, especially because we can't know exactly how it will affect her, although we don't think it'll kill her or turn her into a psycho: that's why we aren't perfectly happy about offering to tell her. It's nothing less than putting Mami's life in her hands, really, so... (Establishes that we have a really good reason to be reluctant about this)
- Offer to tell her if she wants to know.
 
I think it should be something like this:

I was aware this day would come, in fact, I've been contemplating about telling you for a while.

Land somewhere. Make privacy sphere, check how it affects sayaka's connection to clone, if it disrupts it, break to voting.

I was just discussing with Homura whether I should tell you this or not, I'm afraid you may not take it well or by mistake reveal infohazards to Mami she doesn't wants to hear, it is very sensitive information not all magical girls can bear knowing, most end up falling in despair or off the deep end, but I'm gonna give you the choice, and I need you to hear me out and take your time to think seriously about what I'm gonna say.

There's more bad things about being a magical girl that kyubey doesn't tell, the little shit is a manipulative bastard even if he doesn't outright lie, he does so by omission and half-truths. That's why you cannot even tell Madoka or Hitomi about this conversation, they may start asking questions and Kyubey would approach them and he would say anything to make someone become a magical girl.

The lichbomb isn't the only reason we didn't want you or madoka to become magical girls, but we couldn't say the other one, first because Mami doesn't know, she doesn't want to know, we gave her the choice and se refused, she knows, and we also know, that it may break her, Sayaka, it may kill her.

The second reason it's because we know how Madoka is, just like we knew about her, we know she'd be horrified by the truth, and try to make a wish to change how things are, which won't end well. EDIT: we could expand on this saying that our knoweledge of them extends also to things that may happen or have happened in the future, and that we know for sure telling Madoka is a bad idea.

That's why we need you to take your time to think about whether you want to know, it is a really big secret that is bound to make you feel bad and you won't even be able to tell your friends, it may literally kill Mami. For what I know, the only people we know that know about it are Homura, Niko, Nadia, Oriko, Kirika and Yuri and perhaps *I forgot soulguca name*, so you will have only us to talk about it. It's ok if you said you don't want to know right now, because I'm making my best to fix things, and that includes this, eventually, when I do, I'll tell you, I promise everything is going to be alright, you can count on me.
 
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Hmmm... I was thinking about frankenvotes, but my mind diverged a bit...

[] Stop searching. Sit down. Use Grief Fog to make sure KB isn't around.

[] Funny she should ask. We just asked Homura about sharing with her.

[] Serious talk. You can't emphazise how serious.

[] Explain informational hazards.
-[] The need for secrecy, the risks, what happens when you share them with someone who can't handle them.
-[] Use your experience with Mami as an example.


[] Explain there's another truth that's far, far worse.
-[] First and foremost: If you share this with Sayaka, you're putting Mami's life in her hands. Mami must not know. It would kill her. Her and many others. Let that sink in.
-[] Learning this would affect Sayaka:
--[] It would change her outlook in life, like it changed Homura's and Niko's.
--[] She would need to keep it secret 24/7, never let is slip in anger, not talk about it with anyone, even if she thinks she's talking with others who know, and always take measures to ensure privacy if she must talk about it.

[] So it's not about whether she should know, but rather about whether she wants to risk knowing.
-[] Explain how you offered this knowledge to Mami, and Niko to Kazumi. How they decided to not know.
-[] Both Homura and you are scared of sharing this, but you are making her the same offer.
-[] Ask her to think about it.


... It's difficult to put everything we need to talk about in a vote. There's so many important points, it's hard to figure what needs to be said first...

It seems I would break this into three points:


- Explain infohazards, with our experience with Mami as an example. Sayaka didn't see the worst of it.

- Explain the existence of the Witchbomb, how dangerous it is.

- Explain how others reacted to the Witchbomb (mention that both us and Homura are scared), or how decided to not learn about it. That is fine, too!
 
So general consensus seems to be that we should start off by stressing just how awful the secret is, making sure she knows to hide it, and then seeing if she still wants to know.
If so, should we give her the day to think on it? Maybe explain how bad it is, and then tell her to get back to us in a few hours.
 
Erm guys, something really important I just realised.

This is Sayaka's clone. Her real self is still in class.

Now, I'm all for explaining just how bad this secret is, how it will kill Mami if she finds out and how big it is. BUT. Can we please agree that if we decide to tell Sayaka we wait until she's alone after school so she doesn't have a panic attack in the middle of class? That would be kinda bad for the rest of our friends you know?

I don't think we were going to go down that route, but that is a FATAL oversight, especially after we just got finished telling Homura we'd be good about Madoka and thinking we'd be better. Madoka minutes later seeing one of her best friends have a panic attack and being reduced to tears out of nowhere is not good for this.
 
[x]Homura and I were just discussing that.
[x]After class I will make you an offer with particulars, this is not the time or place for this. Anything more here would be like asking you not to think of a pink elephant after I just mentioned them, only worse.
 
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I think it should be something like this:

I was aware this day would come, in fact, I've been contemplating about telling you for a while.

Land somewhere. Make privacy sphere, check how it affects sayaka's connection to clone, if it disrupts it, break to voting.
That'd make a very short update if this happens. If you really intend to go that route it may be better add what to do instead to give more stuff for Firn to write.

Erm guys, something really important I just realised.

This is Sayaka's clone. Her real self is still in class.

Now, I'm all for explaining just how bad this secret is, how it will kill Mami if she finds out and how big it is. BUT. Can we please agree that if we decide to tell Sayaka we wait until she's alone after school so she doesn't have a panic attack in the middle of class? That would be kinda bad for the rest of our friends you know?

I don't think we were going to go down that route, but that is a FATAL oversight, especially after we just got finished telling Homura we'd be good about Madoka and thinking we'd be better. Madoka minutes later seeing one of her best friends have a panic attack and being reduced to tears out of nowhere is not good for this.
The "wait before accepting Sayaka's answer" is used by several reasons:

- because her real body is in classes and to see how she may react
- because the privacy sphere may interrupt communication between Sayaka and her clone and we want to have this conversation private
- because I don't want Sayaka to make an impulsive decision, I want to force Sayaka to ruminate on the responsability that is the witchbomb
 
After this update, I'm starting to worry a little about Seykuu figuring it out on her own.
Particularly because of these instances:

"Pretty much, yeah," you say. "A spiral pattern works well. You know how to sense Witches, right?"

"Kiiinda?" Sayaka says, making a face. "Feels the same as your stuff, right?"

"... you're not wrong," you allow, and start drifting away, giving Sayaka an expectant look. She takes the hint, and follows.

And this one, obviously:
"Hey, Sabrina?" Sayaka asks after a few moments.

"Yep?" you ask, raising your eyes from scanning the streets far below with your senses.

"So... you and Homura have got a lot of secrets, right?" Sayaka asks.

"... you could say that, yeah," you say.

"And I get the impression they're kind of dangerous secrets," Sayaka says, sounding like she's working through some thoughts as she speaks.

"You're not wrong," you allow.

"Anything I should know?" she asks.
 
Have we tried bringing in a Sayaclone with us inside a privacy sphere/zone before? That seems like something that might disrupt the original's connection to the clone.
That might actually be helpful.

If Sayaka is willing to experiment, and we confirm this is true, and she's further willing to let her clone determine if she can handle the truth, then we could try the truth on the clone.

Which is probably what you were going to get to eventually and why you brought it up.

It strikes me that in Sabrina's actions, especially our interactions with Homura, we are imitating first timeline's Madoka -even more closely than this timeline's Madoka is.
 
----[X] She would be expected to keep this under wraps 24/7, even if she thinks she's talking to someone who knows. If she talks to a potential -- Madoka -- about it, Homura might kill her. If she talks to Mami about it, you'll...

Overall I like it, only this line could use some work. We should leave Homura out of it as explaining just why she's so obsessed with Madoka would involve either the potential- or the loopbomb. Instead we should mention that even potentials aren't immune to infohazard and especially potentials as nice and empathetic as Madoka, that they might make an impulsive and ill-considered wish, especially with Kyubey sticking his paws into things - and she's seen how wishes can go bad: Oriko and Kirika, Airi, possibly Nico if Sayaka knows the backstory.
 
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