Okay, for people who haven't read Suzune Magica...
Thanks for the info, I'll keep your post bookmarked.

I want to approach Tsubaki in a definite manner, and show her that we can deal in her comfort zone. Start out like it's about hiring her, there is pay involved after all. If she wants to watch us clear a seed by remote, and then claim the seed after we are gone, fine. We can meet after she sees we aren't evil. She may need time to check our references anyway? Our best goal for her isn't as a skirmisher. Our fight ought to be over the bay, in fact. If she enchants ammo for us, we can spread her awesome power to ten locations, not just one. As a consultant, much of her benefit can be had over telepathy anyway. Our better goals, such as de-witching and universal sanctuary, should come out in later conversations? OTOH, if she wants to hunt with us, we will need to tediously explain our wish and powers.
Makes sense, and I appreciate not offering her to make a clear seed at this point[1].

[1] I have no problems offering one when we actually meet but for a first "phone" talk unlimited cleanses+clear seed no-strings-attached sounds too much of a con, too good to be true
 
No time for science right now, it seems. Not unless we want to skip out on Hijiri.

I was mostly trying to tack aforementioned science onto the science that was already there, since it looked like it was going to be left in with calls to the vote in abeyance. A sort of "if our various phone calls take less time than we expect", which, granted, not likely. It's hard to tell how much time we actually have left for a reasonable night, versus how much time an offhand "let me just check one more thing before we go to bed" will take.

Meh, I'll leave it for now and wait for an actual bandwagon to appear.
 
proposal:

[x] Tsubaki Mikoto.
-[x] Introduce self and Mami.
-[x] Explain powers and desire to help. Tell her that Nadia can verify that we're legit.
-[x] Ask if there would be a good time to meet in the near future. We can travel there on short notice if need be.
-[x] Offer of cleansing, refreshing used Grief Seeds, etc., no strings attached.
-[x] If she's curious why we're interested in her, explain that we're trying to establish good relations with all the magical girls that we can.
--[x] Why her specifically: we don't know of many magical girls who've survived to adulthood. And there aren't really many adults that magical girls can turn to. We value her wisdom and experience.
[X] Continue Hijiri and SCIENCE per vote in abeyance. Add:
-[x] Try willing the enchanted soft rock to
--[X] Become something else
--[X] Attract Grief
[X] Continue vote in abeyance
 
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Regarding Tsubaki
I have a hard time believing Tsubaki would have allowed herself to witch if she knew the truth. Instead she basically gave Suzune most if not all her grief seeds so she could waste magic playing around with powers she was likely to discard anyway. That just seems like a really foolish thing to do with extremely limited resources.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder how Tsubaki survived so long. She really doesn't seem to have the mindset for it.
 
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I am not a fan of voting all the way through the Tsubaki conversation. As usual, we tend to do much better if we can focus our discussion and voting on one thing at a time. I really, really do not want discussion about Hijiri to screw up out interaction with Tsubaki, and it'd be even worse to screw up with Hijiri because we threw her part of the vote out thoughtlessly because we were too busy figuring out Tsubaki.

It sounds like our goals are:
  • Find out if there're any Ongoing Problems
  • Establish ourselves as a resource she can use if Problems arise
  • Potentially get her on board as an ally, because she's cool
[x] Tsubaki Mikoto.

-[x] Goals:
--[x] Establish a relationship; you can solve her canonical issues, she's probably a responsible adult and you need as many of those as you can find.
--[x] Investigate to find out how close the situation is to your metaknowledge.

-[x] Possibly useful particulars:
--[x] Introduce yourself and Mami.
--[x] Standard speech: You want to help meguca, you have powers that do it, you understand larger ramifications and are building a network, Nadia mentioned her as being reasonable.
--[x] Offer to fly over for face-to-face and cleansing.
---[x] Use this to feel out their grief seed situation?
 
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Regarding Tsubaki
I have a hard time believing Tsubaki would have allowed herself to witch if she knew the truth. Instead she basically gave Suzune most if not all her grief seeds so she could waste magic playing around with powers she was likely to discard anyway. That just seems like a really foolish thing to do with extremely limited resources.
Honestly, sometimes I wonder how Tsubaki survived so long. She really doesn't seem to have the mindset for it.
[/QUOTE]
On the other hand, there's a few other things to consider about Tsubaki: We see Tsubaki puts a name in her charm (Mayuki) in the middle of the first flashback to her. She says its a distant aunt who once took care of her, and it wouldn't surprise me if losing someone that close ended up accelerating grief accumulation.

Interestingly, she's actually worn that charm for a long, long time. Long enough that the Hinata twins mistake Suzune for Tsubaki when they recognizes the charm's bell as "Tsubaki's sound." Which makes it clear that Mayuki isn't the first person she's lost. Given she's an older magical girl there's an easy guess as to who the others might be.

Beyond that, I have to wonder if Tsubaki was already grief spiraling from high corruption when she left the twins and knew it was happening. She witches out not long after and her final talk with Matsuri make it clear she knows it's the last time they'll ever meet. It's hardly certain, but it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't just leave because of Suzune, but to protect the twins from her witch.




In other news, problems with convincing Tsubaki to lose the doomed anime mom hairstyle: It's how she keeps her charm on.

I'd be fine with skipping on Hijiri. It's too soon.
Frankly, I'm quite scared that Hijiri is either spiraling or will try to do something stupid out of ignorance. (Such as expend magic until it runs out in the belief that doing so will turn her back into a normal girl.)

I've been convinced to wait this long, but I'm still pretty worried. That and I think she'd appreciate being considered important enough to be told what went down RE: Anri.

-----------

Science thoughts:
[] Map the 4d shape of your soul gem.
Already in the vote in abeyance, but if the shape in four-space is not limited then it has the potential to allow what is effectively teleportation via moving through 4space
[] See how long raw, unformed grief can hold a magic charge.
An Important part of being able to prime grief with magic and hold it in reserve for later.
[] Send a marble of primed grief beyond your range.
It tries to form something before it dissipates, is that failure a volume thing or a structural thing? A bit more iffy than other lines of research.

[] Hunt a witch and keep track of hour your real world range changes as you move through the barrier.
I don't recall us hunting today... we probably should.
 
Frankly, I'm quite scared that Hijiri is either spiraling or will try to do something stupid out of ignorance. (Such as expend magic until it runs out in the belief that doing so will turn her back into a normal girl.)

I've been convinced to wait this long, but I'm still pretty worried. That and I think she'd appreciate being considered important enough to be told what went down RE: Anri.

I have little reason to believe she's spiraling. That in general happens to girls who believe they have nothing left to live for. Before we left and Hijiri escaped, she seemed determined to get what was hers back. That doesn't sound like she's spiraling. Canon Hijiri didn't spiral like that and she was notably worse off.

I'm inclined to believe Nico. She's hiding and laying low for now, waiting for an ideal time to try again. Which isn't today, or tomorrow with the Pleiades on full alert. We have time. We can afford to give Hijiri more time to cool off.
 
Regarding Tsubaki
I have a hard time believing Tsubaki would have allowed herself to witch if she knew the truth. Instead she basically gave Suzune most if not all her grief seeds so she could waste magic playing around with powers she was likely to discard anyway. That just seems like a really foolish thing to do with extremely limited resources.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder how Tsubaki survived so long. She really doesn't seem to have the mindset for it.
Tsubaki saw herself in Suzune; they're said to have gone through similar situations, and Tsubaki doesn't want Suzune to commit the same mistakes she did.

It's an speshul ocassion.

It does seem to be Tsubaki was just extremely careless with herself because she totally wanted Suzune to not become a Witch.


I am not a fan of voting all the way through the Tsubaki conversation. As usual, we tend to do much better if we can focus our discussion and voting on one thing at a time. I really, really do not want discussion about Hijiri to screw up out interaction with Tsubaki, and it'd be even worse to screw up with Hijiri because we threw her part of the vote out thoughtlessly because we were too busy figuring out Tsubaki.

It sounds like our goals are:
  • Find out if there're any Ongoing Problems
  • Establish ourselves as a resource she can use if Problems arise
  • Potentially get her on board as an ally, because she's cool
[x] Tsubaki Mikoto.

-[x] Goals:
--[x] Establish a relationship; you can solve her canonical issues, she's probably a responsible adult and you need as many of those as you can find.
--[x] Investigate to find out how close the situation is to your metaknowledge.

-[x] Possibly useful particulars:
--[x] Introduce yourself and Mami.
--[x] Standard speech: You want to help meguca, you have powers that do it, you understand larger ramifications and are building a network, Nadia mentioned her as being reasonable.
--[x] Offer to fly over for face-to-face and cleansing.
---[x] Use this to feel out their grief seed situation?
Try adding some flattery/asking about Tsubaki's skills/give Tsubaki a sense of why we're contacting her in particular?
 
[X] Tsubaki:
-[X] Introduce yourselves, with Nadia's help.
-[X] Show curiosity about Tsubaki, her life as an adult meguca; show interest in her skills and achievements.
-[X] Once appropriate, talk about Magical Girl problems, your powers, goals and achievements so far.
--[X] Standard Grief cleansing offer.
--[X] Talk about the specific problems that could be better helped by an adult that Magical Girls could relate to, and your hopes Tsubaki could help.

Remember, we need to choose between Hijiri and SCIENCE!; can't have both today.

Also, 'no strings attached' is part of the standard cleansing offer, yes?
 
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Also, 'no strings attached' is part of the standard cleansing offer, yes?
I'd rather be explicit than assume, given recent events. I was way under wordcount limits anyway.


I'm inclined to believe Nico. She's hiding and laying low for now, waiting for an ideal time to try again. Which isn't today, or tomorrow with the Pleiades on full alert. We have time. We can afford to give Hijiri more time to cool off.
I'm concerned about what bullshit Kyubey might be feeding her or what fictitious wrongs she might be imagining to work herself into a lather of rage. Letting her know that Anri is being treated humanely will help with that, and letting her know what Anri tried to do might get her to think a little bit about what exactly she's doing with her life.

I think trying to get her to meet with us in person is laughably premature, but just giving her a brief update and laying the groundwork for future communication doesn't seem unreasonable.
 
I'd rather be explicit than assume, given recent events. I was way under wordcount limits anyway.



I'm concerned about what bullshit Kyubey might be feeding her or what fictitious wrongs she might be imagining to work herself into a lather of rage. Letting her know that Anri is being treated humanely will help with that, and letting her know what Anri tried to do might get her to think a little bit about what exactly she's doing with her life.

I think trying to get her to meet with us in person is laughably premature, but just giving her a brief update and laying the groundwork for future communication doesn't seem unreasonable.

I don't think even Kyuubey could manage that in such a short span of time. He still needs hard proof to convince Hijiri of those fictitious wrong doings. We didn't open ourselves to those kind of accusations and managed to convince the Pleiades not to act in a manner that can be interpreted as such.

What I'm suggesting is to give Hijiri atleast a day to sleep this off and then give her an update. Time for her to cool down and we'll still give her an update promptly.
 
[X] Tsubaki:
-[X] Introduce yourselves, with Nadia's help.
This... sounds like a really good idea. Why didn't I realize this was a possibility? Having Nadia in the conversation massively bumps up our credibility, and it's probably reassuring for Tsubaki to actually have someone she knows in the conversation.

EDIT: Oh! An idea. If we're worried about Hijiri and what she might be doing... Why don't we ask Niko what she thinks? After all, Hijiri is a clone of her, and earlier Niko seemed to have a pretty good grasp on how Hijiri would behave. I reckon that if we ask Niko and mention our worries(grief spiraling, deliberate darkening of own gem), she will be able to accurately identify whether our worries are well-founded or not.
 
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I don't think even Kyuubey could manage that in such a short span of time. He still needs hard proof to convince Hijiri of those fictitious wrong doings.
Keep in mind that Hijiri believes a bunch of absurd and delusional shit regarding Niko and the Pleiades. She's not gonna require much effort to convince to hate someone, because it's already her default setting.
 
Keep in mind that Hijiri believes a bunch of absurd and delusional shit regarding Niko and the Pleiades. She's not gonna require much effort to convince to hate someone, because it's already her default setting.
Then that basically would mean everything we did in Asunaro to try and convince Hijiri otherwise was pretty much pointless. I refuse to believe that.
 
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