Dragontrapper
Homeless Draconis
- Location
- A Tower in the middle of nowhere
Well, as long as we don't use a baseball it'll probably be fine, right?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Well, as long as we don't use a baseball it'll probably be fine, right?
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Homura tells Kyouko she'll give her the entire city and leave Mitakihara forever.
Homura knows about the Witchbomb, and she knows witches tend to target what they cherished in life.
Homura's Witch is full of suicide imagery, as is her Devil form.
The only reason Homura has for living is saving Madoka, and doesn't believe she's worthy of being with her.
Homura's only gone this long without witching because of her mission and because Time Stop is bullshit, and she'll be out of Time Stop sand after Wally with no apparent means of refilling.
Connect the dots, and there's really only one conclusion.
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- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hoooo boy.
Homura...
Right, how do head this off? My only idea is to keep eyes on her during the days before and after Walpurgisnacht, ready to intervene the second she tries something. But I have a feeling the brute force approach won't work here.
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, um, that's concerning...
Here's some ideas.
1: Point we can make: Everyone would be really hurt if Homura died. Us, Madoka, everyone.
2: Point we can make: Homura dying increases the chances of Madoka contracting. 'I wish that Homura was alive', for example.
3: Perhaps if Oriko gets her powers back, we could ask her if Homura being dead would reduce the chances of our success?
Obviously these are only uh, stall methods. They're not actually dealing with the issue of 'Homura wants to die'. They're just trying to convince her it's a bad idea, to delay the suicide so that there's more time for her to actually start valuing her life again.
Here's some ideas.
1: Point we can make: Everyone would be really hurt if Homura died. Us, Madoka, everyone.
2: Point we can make: Homura dying increases the chances of Madoka contracting. 'I wish that Homura was alive', for example.
3: Perhaps if Oriko gets her powers back, we could ask her if Homura being dead would reduce the chances of our success?
Obviously these are only uh, stall methods. They're not actually dealing with the issue of 'Homura wants to die'. They're just trying to convince her it's a bad idea, to delay the suicide so that there's more time for her to actually start valuing her life again.
- Location
- florida
This issue is not over. "I will do whatever it takes to win so long as it works." Is not something that inspires great love and self esteem.
Homuras self justification is wearing perilously thin, and might be snapping soon.
On what path/route/timeline happened that? In particular the first part.
Because, as almost anything else, circumstances are changing. And while Homura may be suicidal (she hates herself so it's believable) the scenario where Homura would need to kill herself to prevent Homulilly attacking Madoka may not even need to pass, as long as she has access to grief/clear seeds or Sabrina's grief cleansing.
My point is that, while it isn't unimportant, it isn't as critical as it looks at first glance. Defusing that should come by itself at the same time as Sabrina keeps helping Homura.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Does anyone remember the update where Sabrina soul-mingled with a witch? Might we be able to use that to commiserate with Homura's self loathing?
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
If we need a trump card, that would do it.
Better to get some NPC help, and give Homura more options in the present. Our enchanting practice is exactly one such step. Homura still doesn't know her powers, i.e. doesn't know herself. Helping with that will open doors. Her possibilities are good even this early. She has a "barrier" branch to her power. Ever seen "Kekkaishi"? It would let her change a little, and not be stifled by her support role.
As a civilian, therapy will let her use a full TEN YEAR development gap on her social problems. A skilled therapist could work wonders for her.
For tonight, our choices are "Madoka when?" and "Madoka how?"
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
All we have to do is counteract a lifetime of abuse! Oh, wait...
Well, we are well suited to the task, just not sufficient of ourself. A social environment that is both properly loving, and more-or-less immune to the chaos she will let out as she heals is a great base. We are working on that.
We just need to get her a lead therapist.
Timestop sure is fun, but her hammerspace (and Towa Industries?) is actually what enables most of her attack power. If Sayaka is on the high road by gathering powers, Homura will be the person climbing to the top using enchanted gear. Never any shame in that.
Her timestop needs to end, someday. That isn't a power without consequence. It is "Her Stopped Time." We need to get her life moving. Madoka can't wait forever, you know!
True! But we must not rely on that, it has been a failure mode in the past. If we can get her to the close of the deal, the part where she tears out the heart of her oppressor, particularly if she can do that with her other talents, is that a better situation?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[x]I think I tasted something similar to what you've been feeling. Remember the Hildegard experiment? You deserve to be able to feel like a human being again.
-[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
-[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
[x] That's what friends are for, Homura.
-[x] She's our friend and we care about her and want her to be happy.
--[x] She's the closes thing we have to family and we will always be there for her.
-[x] She's Mami and Sayaka's friend and they care about her to be happy, too.
-[x] Madoka cares about her and wants her to be happy, too.
--[x] We're all here for her. She is not alone.
[x] Hug and comfort her while she composes herself.
[x] Ask if anything else is troubling her.
-[x] Or anything else she wants to talk about.
-[x] If there isn't anything, continue vote in abeyance.
-[x] She's our friend and we care about her and want her to be happy.
--[x] She's the closes thing we have to family and we will always be there for her.
-[x] She's Mami and Sayaka's friend and they care about her to be happy, too.
-[x] Madoka cares about her and wants her to be happy, too.
--[x] We're all here for her. She is not alone.
[x] Hug and comfort her while she composes herself.
[x] Ask if anything else is troubling her.
-[x] Or anything else she wants to talk about.
-[x] If there isn't anything, continue vote in abeyance.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Implying that Homumom is already akin to a Witch, psychologically if not metaphysicallly, will probably have a detrimental effect on her, us, her relationship with us, and the amount of Homuhugs we'd be able to get in the future.
Even if it's true.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Hey, I have no qualms with offering a shoulder to cry on. I'm good with the second part.
Just as long as we don't compare Homura to Hildegard.
Inserted tally
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
I would like to note my amusement that this could be said with exactly the same words that Homura said to Madoka on that subject in PMMM. I'm not sure it's a good idea, but it could be done to draw the parallels between the two of them.
(Because they really do have a some very significant traits in common: they're self-sacrificing, they look down on themselves, and yet they both have that same core of impossible strength to them.)
EDIT: Honestly, my real instinct here is to either give a quick single line, hoping to give homura a world where she can Madoka can both be happy, or segue onto something tangential but nonetheless uplifting for Homura.
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Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
[x] She realizes, of course, that if Madoka is Mado-kaa, <switch to English> that means that Homura is Homu-mom, right?
[x] Firnagzen
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
[x] refer to the Yakuza gold as an "allowance" and/or "lunch money"
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- Location
- Illinois
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
Humor! Yes!
Other items to vote for right now?
> We need to make a mention of "how to get support" in a good way for her.
> Ask her what she is thinking, what she wants now?
> "The future" is a good topic to find out if we have to work on other concerns. If she doesn't have one, start guiding her to imagine a positive future.
> Practice her first self affirmation. Lead her to say it.
> Diagnose for Wish rejection? Do it indirectly
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
AsuraKyoko
The Witch who was known as the Goddess of War
- Location
- Brockton Bay
[x] Kaizuki
- Location
- USA
New person, new to SV as a whole too, wanted to throw my hat in about some future SCIENCE
Something has been bugging me about our solid grief, specifically what we have seen damage it.
Thinking back to our fights, namely O&K, Sendai, and Ausnaro. Mobile Oppression Fortress blocked weaponized light, metal projectiles, water, paper, plants, etc. I don't remember an instance where Sabrina's solid grief was damaged or pierced while defending against magically acquired mundane weapons (the Mami+Sayaka+Homura spar when we faced against Homura) or magically accelerated physical projectiles (the metal and light bending Fukushima duo, or the recent Fukushima spar in the building where we blocked the building). It doesn't make much sense that our grief alone is immune when you consider that mundane weapons work wonders in Homura's hands (and magical attacks from normal meguca work) against pretty much every witch ... except Walpurgisnacht, which we never see significantly damaged by Homura's mundane weaponry in any of the main series loops. (Also, I think the only time we ever see damage on Walpurgis comes from Madoka's pure magic projectiles, but I am not 100% sure about this.)
Based on this, I believe that we can assume that our solid or witchy grief, as a material, is closer to or mimics the grief which constitutes Walpurgisnacht more so than the grief which constitutes normal witches.
I propose that we test this, or rather, we determine which, if any, of our allies' powers can damage, pierce, disperse, or otherwise interact/affect solid grief by running tests with both mundane and magical attacks. Then, we can use that knowledge to plan a strategy against Walpurgisnacht. Specifically we should:
1. Sample Homura's arsenal (projectiles, missiles, her magic pulse, etc.) against different kinds/thicknesses of grief, and test if our grief penetrates her enchantment magic
2. Test all of Sayaka's copied powers to see if any have effects
3. Test Mami's muskets, ribbons, Tiro, and possibly her and Sabrina's combination attacks
4. Test all of the above with Kirika's anti-magic enchantments applied to the projectile, power, or weapon
If they do have effects, we can train/include in the plan whoever the powers come from. And, Sabrina could develop contingencies so that we aren't taken by surprise if a random power appears that can interact with our grief.
In fact, the only thing I can remember that has ever been directly effective against our 'solid grief' was anti-magic.
While fighting O&K:
And versus Hijiri:
Which is great if we test it and it works against our Walpurgisnacht ballistics gel. But, I think it would be trivially easy in a narrative sense for, say, a 100 person raiding group to send 70 people to distract the main Mitakihara group while 30 recruit Hijiri or force Kirika against us by taking Oriko hostage (or in Homura's mind or if we are sufficiently paranoid, she might let herself be taken hostage). Especially when you consider that, in Ausnaro, we had a team of ~8-10 girls versus 2 which we had information about, but we only captured 1 and let one get away.
Now that's just unfounded speculation, but I think it would still be beneficial to determine anything else that would be useful against our grief, even if it wont be applicable to Walpurgisnacht, just to develop contingencies against those types of powers now, rather than on the spot later.
There does exist the chance that Sabrina doesn't find a power or attack that has an effect on our grief other that Kirika's anti magic, but I think even showing that we have something effective against Walpurgisnacht ballistics gel would help assure Homura in the (near)future. It would also be, to Homura specifically, another point in favor of keeping O&K around and alive or busy enchanting while someone watches if we have solid evidence that they can contribute towards Walpurgisnacht.
Something has been bugging me about our solid grief, specifically what we have seen damage it.
Thinking back to our fights, namely O&K, Sendai, and Ausnaro. Mobile Oppression Fortress blocked weaponized light, metal projectiles, water, paper, plants, etc. I don't remember an instance where Sabrina's solid grief was damaged or pierced while defending against magically acquired mundane weapons (the Mami+Sayaka+Homura spar when we faced against Homura) or magically accelerated physical projectiles (the metal and light bending Fukushima duo, or the recent Fukushima spar in the building where we blocked the building). It doesn't make much sense that our grief alone is immune when you consider that mundane weapons work wonders in Homura's hands (and magical attacks from normal meguca work) against pretty much every witch ... except Walpurgisnacht, which we never see significantly damaged by Homura's mundane weaponry in any of the main series loops. (Also, I think the only time we ever see damage on Walpurgis comes from Madoka's pure magic projectiles, but I am not 100% sure about this.)
Based on this, I believe that we can assume that our solid or witchy grief, as a material, is closer to or mimics the grief which constitutes Walpurgisnacht more so than the grief which constitutes normal witches.
I propose that we test this, or rather, we determine which, if any, of our allies' powers can damage, pierce, disperse, or otherwise interact/affect solid grief by running tests with both mundane and magical attacks. Then, we can use that knowledge to plan a strategy against Walpurgisnacht. Specifically we should:
1. Sample Homura's arsenal (projectiles, missiles, her magic pulse, etc.) against different kinds/thicknesses of grief, and test if our grief penetrates her enchantment magic
2. Test all of Sayaka's copied powers to see if any have effects
3. Test Mami's muskets, ribbons, Tiro, and possibly her and Sabrina's combination attacks
4. Test all of the above with Kirika's anti-magic enchantments applied to the projectile, power, or weapon
If they do have effects, we can train/include in the plan whoever the powers come from. And, Sabrina could develop contingencies so that we aren't taken by surprise if a random power appears that can interact with our grief.
In fact, the only thing I can remember that has ever been directly effective against our 'solid grief' was anti-magic.
While fighting O&K:
And versus Hijiri:
Which is great if we test it and it works against our Walpurgisnacht ballistics gel. But, I think it would be trivially easy in a narrative sense for, say, a 100 person raiding group to send 70 people to distract the main Mitakihara group while 30 recruit Hijiri or force Kirika against us by taking Oriko hostage (or in Homura's mind or if we are sufficiently paranoid, she might let herself be taken hostage). Especially when you consider that, in Ausnaro, we had a team of ~8-10 girls versus 2 which we had information about, but we only captured 1 and let one get away.
Now that's just unfounded speculation, but I think it would still be beneficial to determine anything else that would be useful against our grief, even if it wont be applicable to Walpurgisnacht, just to develop contingencies against those types of powers now, rather than on the spot later.
There does exist the chance that Sabrina doesn't find a power or attack that has an effect on our grief other that Kirika's anti magic, but I think even showing that we have something effective against Walpurgisnacht ballistics gel would help assure Homura in the (near)future. It would also be, to Homura specifically, another point in favor of keeping O&K around and alive or busy enchanting while someone watches if we have solid evidence that they can contribute towards Walpurgisnacht.