**returns from
sleep breakfast the dead making tea** Holy shit we're not dead/nobody has stormed off in anger! Road to success, right there. Despite my faith in the outgoing vote(s), I admit I was concerned. Tense discussions are tense, yeah?
Homura makes a low noise in the back of her throat, and unwinds one arm far enough to make a tiny beckoning gesture at Mami.
... I think our Homura needs Madoka-hugs. For her health and wellbeing.
You know, it occurs to me, it may have been a good thing to ask for timestop, for more reasons than just informational security and the length of the conversation. Reading over:
Colour drains from the world, the noise of the city sliced away instantly. Mami exhales slowly, arm tightening around you, and Sayaka shifts uncomfortably, staring around at the frozen world. It's only her... second experience of Homura's timestop, you think.
I was reminded how unsettling people often find the stillness and silence of timestop. But rereading the chapter, I was also reminded that timestop is Homura's sanctuary- that while others may find it unsettling, for Homura, it's something of a comfort. In timestop, nothing changes where she can't see it. People are exactly where she's left them. No accidents, no tragedies, can befall Madoka; nor can anybody upset the fragile pieces of any of Homura's plans; nor can any Incubator close a contract. There are no variables that move on their own, in timestop; the only things that move do so at Homura's grace.
As much as we may impose a bit on that peace, having this discussion in timestop, we're only here on Homura's sufferance. She's holding the ribbon keeping us here, it's not tied to her; she can drop it at any moment and we probably wouldn't have time to stop her (and wouldn't even if we did, but, well, it's always the
just in case that one must answer to). The totality of the stillness and all the agency in the world between instants would return entirely to Homura again. In that same vein, in that same
just in case, even if she's dismissed the idea for awhile now as unnecessary, I suspect it is something of a comfort that we would be at her mercy, the moment she chose. More importantly, if she concluded it was necessary to
deal with Oriko and Kirika, from timestop it is within her power to do so in an instant.
In the same way that I have a bit of a suspicion the fact Homura can check on their house arrest at her leisure is at least a part of why O&K haven't had a mysterious accident by now, I think part of the reason Homura hasn't just dropped this conversation is because she
can, she has the definitive power to do so. We're not keeping her here; she's
allowing us. Having this discussion in a place of comfort for her, where, more or less, Homura has all the power in the world, reverses a lot of the social pressure that comes from having a group conversation about a heavy topic like this in the first place.
And also. Having this talk in timestop means that, while we're discussing Oriko aka A Major Danger To Madoka (tm), Madoka herself is not potentially in danger during this conversation. I suspect that before Homura leaves timestop or right after this conversation she's going to want to go make
absolutely sure of that, because that sort of concern still creeps up on you even if you're absolutely sure it shouldn't need to, but while we're here, Homura is probably able to be at least a
tiny bit less tense about needing to check on Madoka every time we mention Oriko's name. And every tiny bit less tension is a tiny bit more leeway for us to not utterly implode this conversation.
So, yeah, those are just my thoughts about that.
Homura goes still, gaze locking onto you. Her hand whitens around the ribbon, fingers of her other hand curling loosely.
... I am wondering, if this moment indicates she did indeed catch the idea that it was Madoka's wish that we're pretty sure led us here, to this particular information and argument. I think it's not unlikely, even if we don't touch on the idea again, though we might well end up doing so just as a byproduct of our overall explanation.
Re: emotional appeal versus logical appeal: I think something to keep in mind, is that someone can cleave to the things that matter to them with all the strength and force of emotion, and hold to it because it is
theirs, but equally, they might need to be convinced
both emotionally and logically of anything that seems to go against that driving center ideal. Because convincing them emotionally (in this case meaning not trying to outweigh a world's worth of emotional value) means giving them reason to believe, emotionally, that what you are proposing
isn't incompatible with their central emotional ideal/motivation. And to do that (particularly in the case of someone with a lot of reasons to be paranoid and extremely cautious), you often need to logically address every single nagging thought and concern that their brain could stir up and cause them worry. Give them strong enough logical reasons that outweigh the brewing gut instinct, the anxiety, that says
this is going against the thing that is most important to me.
Or, that is what I gather, in my experience. Obviously, subject to interpretation whether this applies to Homura in this situation.
Actually, I can think of one more thing we could do. Homura sees people as the same across multiple timelines, but there's nothing saying that people can't have qualities she hasn't discovered before. I'm tempted to add a glance at Mami into this. Homura was completely surprised when we got Mami to tell Sayaka and Madoka to not become magical girls and I'm tempted to draw parallels between them, because their negative actions are both drawn out by their being victimized -- in Mami's case it's her loneliness, in Oriko's case it's her everything.
Also, since I missed responding to this somehow, this is something that we should say to Homura in some manner... but in private timestop. So not right now, sadly.
Private timestop later probably seems like the best place to address loop-intel-specific arguments like this, yeah.
Also, for the moment:
[x] Godwinson
I feel like there are still things that might should be tweaked, but I'm not sure I could pin them down at the moment, and I think this is a good direction to be headed.
minor edits for spacing and clarity
