Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
The anti-magic rock, you mean?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
[X] Onmur
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People have commented: "It's not safe to leave Oriko in Asunaro because Feathers would get her."
But Feathers can't find Oriko if she stays in a privacy sphere the whole time.
Staying in a privacy sphere also will explain why she can't see herself in the future.
This will let her stop thinking her death is inevitable, which will hopefully mean she gets her powers back.
-----
People have commented: "It's not safe to leave Oriko in Asunaro because Feathers would get her."
But Feathers can't find Oriko if she stays in a privacy sphere the whole time.
Staying in a privacy sphere also will explain why she can't see herself in the future.
This will let her stop thinking her death is inevitable, which will hopefully mean she gets her powers back.
(This might also be true but I think putting her in the privacy sphere will solve the problem regardless of cause.)
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I think putting Oriko in a box might be a little too much on her.
If there's one good thing that comes from Oriko rejecting her Wish, it's that it means she chose to live. Her powers were keen on her death, and she rejected that whole package deal.
In a way, had Oriko chose to keep her Wish, her powers, she would have been chosing to also keep her inminent death. It would've been a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Maybe we can talk with the Pleiades about Feathers at some point. Just to talk about problems, I guess. Not likely that they could help, since they live in another city and all...
Privacy sphere is likely not infallible against a threat of feathers tier.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Feathers can apparently move in Time Stop. Assume NOTHING.
It's approaching ten, and no, most likely not. But if you leave now you won't be egregiously late for that.
Can I get more votes/discussion, by the by?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Well... We can impose on Nadia for a few minutes, I think.
So this would be my plan in non-resumed, non-vote form:
[X] Talk about Anri:
-[X] We'll ask Nadia, or an allied group for help.
-[X] How tight a leash do we need on Anri?
-[X] Learning if Anri shared her Witch-out plans with Hijiri.
-[X] Can we join the talk with Anri?
-[X] Terms for Anri:
--[X] Non-hostility.
--[X] Absolutely no Witching Magical Girls.
--[X] Staying at Mitakihara.
--[X] Anti-Magic.
[X] Oriko:
-[X] Be FriendBrina.
-[X] Emphasize the good she's doing.
-[X] Ask her if she'd fulfil this Social role in the team.
[X] Leave Privacy Sphere.
[X] Telepathy Nadia, include Oriko:
-[X] We'll be a little late.
-[X] Ask for help; briefly explain the Anri problem:
--[X] Ask about meguca PR regarding how we deal with Anri.
--[X] We need a minder/guard for Anri.
---[X] Give hints (can't be anyone; suspicious circumstances) so Nadia can understand if she's already Witchbombed.
[X] Pleiades.
-[X] Results RE: Tracking Hijiri?
-[X] Consult about developing security measures.
-[X] Give back the Privacy Device.
-[X] Clear and 'return' the Derrick Witch Seed.
If I was looking for something to chop out of the vote, I think perhaps we don't need to prod Nadia about bombs today. She could help without knowing her witchbomb status. And this way we wouldn't be making her wait on us.
So this would be my plan in non-resumed, non-vote form:
- We'll outsource the outsourcing of Anri-guarding (to Nadia).
- Get Oriko's opinion (about Anri):
- On how much freedom Anri can be trusted with;
- Whether us joining the Anri talk would be OK;
- State terms for Anri's 'captivity'. So Oriko will know what ot expect if we join the talk with Anri, or as a guide for her if we don't.
- Now that Oriko's feeling proud of herself, take a moment to make sure the feeling sticks, and try to bring Oriko closer to the group. Oriko's the most... detached of our friends (?), we've shared many pink elephants in our rooms, and since she acts more formal than the others, we haven't really displayed as much affections for her than as for any other of our friends.
- Telepathy Nadia to consult on how to deal with Anri, including about how other meguca will see our handling of her. Set up a private conversation (in Privacy Sphere) so we can hint about infobombs and hopefully find out whether Nadia's Witchbombed (or avoid bombing her if she isn't), just like we did with Niko, basically. If she's Witchbombed, she can help better with finding a minder for Anri.
- We asked Mami to tell Kazumi we could go fly around searching for Anri. Get Kazumi's answer.
- Consult about security measures. Maybe Niko can help with our Anri problem.
- Give back stuff.
- Get Oriko's opinion (about Anri):
- On how much freedom Anri can be trusted with;
- Whether us joining the Anri talk would be OK;
- State terms for Anri's 'captivity'. So Oriko will know what ot expect if we join the talk with Anri, or as a guide for her if we don't.
- Now that Oriko's feeling proud of herself, take a moment to make sure the feeling sticks, and try to bring Oriko closer to the group. Oriko's the most... detached of our friends (?), we've shared many pink elephants in our rooms, and since she acts more formal than the others, we haven't really displayed as much affections for her than as for any other of our friends.
- Telepathy Nadia to consult on how to deal with Anri, including about how other meguca will see our handling of her. Set up a private conversation (in Privacy Sphere) so we can hint about infobombs and hopefully find out whether Nadia's Witchbombed (or avoid bombing her if she isn't), just like we did with Niko, basically. If she's Witchbombed, she can help better with finding a minder for Anri.
- We asked Mami to tell Kazumi we could go fly around searching for Anri. Get Kazumi's answer.
- Consult about security measures. Maybe Niko can help with our Anri problem.
- Give back stuff.
[X] Talk about Anri:
-[X] We'll ask Nadia, or an allied group for help.
-[X] How tight a leash do we need on Anri?
-[X] Learning if Anri shared her Witch-out plans with Hijiri.
-[X] Can we join the talk with Anri?
-[X] Terms for Anri:
--[X] Non-hostility.
--[X] Absolutely no Witching Magical Girls.
--[X] Staying at Mitakihara.
--[X] Anti-Magic.
[X] Oriko:
-[X] Be FriendBrina.
-[X] Emphasize the good she's doing.
-[X] Ask her if she'd fulfil this Social role in the team.
[X] Leave Privacy Sphere.
[X] Telepathy Nadia, include Oriko:
-[X] We'll be a little late.
-[X] Ask for help; briefly explain the Anri problem:
--[X] Ask about meguca PR regarding how we deal with Anri.
--[X] We need a minder/guard for Anri.
---[X] Give hints (can't be anyone; suspicious circumstances) so Nadia can understand if she's already Witchbombed.
[X] Pleiades.
-[X] Results RE: Tracking Hijiri?
-[X] Consult about developing security measures.
-[X] Give back the Privacy Device.
-[X] Clear and 'return' the Derrick Witch Seed.
If I was looking for something to chop out of the vote, I think perhaps we don't need to prod Nadia about bombs today. She could help without knowing her witchbomb status. And this way we wouldn't be making her wait on us.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
[X]Onmur
Gonna take a while to give further analysis and write up any salient points, but I agree with the fundamental thrust of this plan.
We have evidence and inferences to draw from here. Quite a few of them, as Firn's noted repeatedly that he prides himself on giving hints in advance. Assuming literally anything could happen --- as opposed to trying to narrow down and define various possibilities and their likelihood --- kinda irks me. Especially when it gets in the way of actual planning.
There's value in looking for potential problems, but when talk comes up in this form I end up inferring, even if it's unintended, not to be careful but rather that there is no way forward. I understand that's probably not your point, but it's what I draw from this post regardless.
Or rather, I can see distinct ways in which the sphere is not infallible based on what we know of the privacy sphere itself, Homucifer's time + memory manipulation + familiars/clara dolls powerset as a Feathers candidate, and what a highly paranoid reading might take as warnings that Sabrina herself might be a danger to her friends in the wrong circumstances, (and I'm fully aware of just how uncharitable that reading is) but I haven't really been convinced that any of these are inevitable or impossible to work around.
(Dedolere!Feathers for instance might just be hindered by going out and thinking of the pink elephant, before things can be triggered by others.)
In the interest of not having her wait on us and cutting to the chase, it occurs to me that it might be possible to ask her in the call 1: if she can give us contact information later today for mercenaries to watch a girl, 2: that it can't be just anyone, and 3: note that to help contain a girl who swore to avenge a meguca friend she claims another group killed (and they swore they didn't)
Basically, put enough pieces on the table for her to know what it means if she's witchbombed. It's not any more of an inherent hazard than Akiko's own history.
Gonna take a while to give further analysis and write up any salient points, but I agree with the fundamental thrust of this plan.
Okay, this strikes me as paranoid. The two top candidates for Feathers have always been Homucifer/Homura and Dedolere/Sabrina. Being active in time stop is natural and expected for the one maintaining it, and likewise it's only expected that something inside Sabrina's own soul goes everywhere she is and is active every time she is. For obvious reasons.
We have evidence and inferences to draw from here. Quite a few of them, as Firn's noted repeatedly that he prides himself on giving hints in advance. Assuming literally anything could happen --- as opposed to trying to narrow down and define various possibilities and their likelihood --- kinda irks me. Especially when it gets in the way of actual planning.
There's value in looking for potential problems, but when talk comes up in this form I end up inferring, even if it's unintended, not to be careful but rather that there is no way forward. I understand that's probably not your point, but it's what I draw from this post regardless.
I haven't really been convinced of this.
Or rather, I can see distinct ways in which the sphere is not infallible based on what we know of the privacy sphere itself, Homucifer's time + memory manipulation + familiars/clara dolls powerset as a Feathers candidate, and what a highly paranoid reading might take as warnings that Sabrina herself might be a danger to her friends in the wrong circumstances, (and I'm fully aware of just how uncharitable that reading is) but I haven't really been convinced that any of these are inevitable or impossible to work around.
(Dedolere!Feathers for instance might just be hindered by going out and thinking of the pink elephant, before things can be triggered by others.)
I think that defeats the point. The reason we're contacting Nadia is to find a witchbombed mercenary guca who can watch over Anri for us. Can't do that if we're not on the same page about witchbombs.
In the interest of not having her wait on us and cutting to the chase, it occurs to me that it might be possible to ask her in the call 1: if she can give us contact information later today for mercenaries to watch a girl, 2: that it can't be just anyone, and 3: note that to help contain a girl who swore to avenge a meguca friend she claims another group killed (and they swore they didn't)
Basically, put enough pieces on the table for her to know what it means if she's witchbombed. It's not any more of an inherent hazard than Akiko's own history.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Sure, but if you're wrong, you have a dead Oriko. No thanks on that gamble.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
The distinctly third-party treatment of Anri sounds like a risky path. Would anyone like to contest that statement? Further, isn't now the time to form our proper response to the whole incident, as far as we are able?
Only one principal player is absent, everyone has recovered, and we are planning on many more activities. Thus, try to do our best now. We can't do our best without engaging the subject of our deliberations. This isn't a municipal court, this is very personal. Do we have any positive reasons to put the Anri talk on "full autocomplete?" It is my hunch that our effort to focus on sound thinking here, supports Sabrina in gaining better results and / or growing her soft power skills.
We might have to delegate something, but the easiest item to hand over is the reception. How do we want to do that?
Once we get a first hand impression of Anri, we should both have gained some incidental information from her, and improve our chances of negotiating the right terms. Perhaps we let The fair Mrs. Kure run the interview, but we can't get real insight if we don't listen. The data from the last conversation was "satisfying" or "rather suggestive?" Is the second-hand account "useful" on its own? If we didn't actually want to listen, why did we get involved again? Oriko gave us training wheels to improve the result, but if we don't get involved, what will that result be?
Correct my suggestions, or refute them?
[X] Telepathy Homura Update, ask advice
[X] Oriko - We need to get deep into Anri's motives. Have her talk about-
-[X] Her wish, exact words, intent
--[X] Honest intent!
-[X] Anri's mundane life post-wish
-[X] Self-image
-[X] The story of Yuuri - tell us all about her
-[X] Favorite food
-[X] Favorite place, and that memory
-[X] Mundane life pre-wish - get details - we need this
-[X] Whole history with Kyuubey - BTW, it put Anri in this position, it KNOWS all of us. It knew Anri would get killed.
-[X] What does she think will happen in her future?
--[X] If pressure is needed - Ask What would Yuuri do?
Only one principal player is absent, everyone has recovered, and we are planning on many more activities. Thus, try to do our best now. We can't do our best without engaging the subject of our deliberations. This isn't a municipal court, this is very personal. Do we have any positive reasons to put the Anri talk on "full autocomplete?" It is my hunch that our effort to focus on sound thinking here, supports Sabrina in gaining better results and / or growing her soft power skills.
We might have to delegate something, but the easiest item to hand over is the reception. How do we want to do that?
Once we get a first hand impression of Anri, we should both have gained some incidental information from her, and improve our chances of negotiating the right terms. Perhaps we let The fair Mrs. Kure run the interview, but we can't get real insight if we don't listen. The data from the last conversation was "satisfying" or "rather suggestive?" Is the second-hand account "useful" on its own? If we didn't actually want to listen, why did we get involved again? Oriko gave us training wheels to improve the result, but if we don't get involved, what will that result be?
Correct my suggestions, or refute them?
[X] Telepathy Homura Update, ask advice
[X] Oriko - We need to get deep into Anri's motives. Have her talk about-
-[X] Her wish, exact words, intent
--[X] Honest intent!
-[X] Anri's mundane life post-wish
-[X] Self-image
-[X] The story of Yuuri - tell us all about her
-[X] Favorite food
-[X] Favorite place, and that memory
-[X] Mundane life pre-wish - get details - we need this
-[X] Whole history with Kyuubey - BTW, it put Anri in this position, it KNOWS all of us. It knew Anri would get killed.
-[X] What does she think will happen in her future?
--[X] If pressure is needed - Ask What would Yuuri do?
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Ah, so that's what you mean. My apologies, it's hard to chain the conversation together and tell who or what you're responding to when things are left blank and vague.
You're right that, no, there's nothing actually stopping Feathers from just waltzing into a privacy field or anything like that. I have no intention of seriously suggesting that course without a great deal of research first.
For a little extra clarity I might change that last one to:
---[] Give hints (can't be just anyone; suspicious circumstances) so Nadia can understand if she's already Witchbombed
But that one-word nitpick aside I like it.
The thing to me with Oriko and Anri is, this isn't handing her off to a third party to save time or something like that.
We, Sabrina, are bad at this whole social thing. Even when we try our hardest, correctly interpreting the motives and needs of others in a social context is by far our biggest weakness.
Oriko on the other hand? She's a politician's daughter, and a once student-council president (Though I can't remember which specific manga mentions that) of a pretty high class school. Even removed from all her magic and precognition she's an excellent socialite and manipulator who's claim to fame is sending Kyuubey running around in circles.
Interpersonal dynamics may certainly come into play with who she should talk to, but it's only natural that she'd excel here. This is where a lot of her skillset lies.
In the end, this isn't a videogame where you either complete tasks yourself or hand it off to a less competent AI underlying. It's a pack of people with all their own needs and skillsets, of which we players are but one.
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But here's my citation:
If you read the linked update, we spend some more time trying to talk her out of it, but we fail.
Can we at least ask Oriko -- not in this vote, but soon -- if hiding in a privacy sphere might explain why she can't see herself in the future?
I think putting Oriko in a box might be a little too much on her.
We can research a privacy sphere that's less boxy. Our current version is at least portable.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Why would switching the two have any relevance to...
Ah, if we're lying about which one it is. Yeah, I can see how it would read that way.
Okay, yeah, That wasn't the intent I got from that vote last time and it's pretty ambiguous.
...And the prior line says "Privacy device" instead of "memory device"
Those two lines should probably be changed to:
-[] Return the Memory Device.
-[]Offer to clear the Derrick Witch Seed in lieu of Arzt Kochen.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
[X] HeroCycle
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
PMAS Vote Update Patch 601.1.04:
[X] Talk about Anri:
-[X] We'll ask Nadia, or an allied group for help.
-[X] How tight a leash do we need on Anri?
-[X] Learning if Anri shared her Witch-out plans with Hijiri.
-[X] Can we join the talk with Anri?
-[X] Terms for Anri:
--[X] Non-hostility.
--[X] Absolutely no Witching Magical Girls.
--[X] Staying at Mitakihara.
--[X] Anti-Magic.
[X] Oriko:
-[X] Be FriendBrina.
-[X] Emphasize the good she's doing.
-[X] Ask her if she'd fulfil this Social role in the team.
[X] Leave Privacy Sphere.
[X] Telepathy Nadia, include Oriko:
-[X] We'll be a little late.
-[X] Ask for help; briefly explain the Anri problem:
--[X] Ask about meguca PR regarding how we deal with Anri.
--[X] We need a minder/guard for Anri.
---[X] Give hints (can't be just anyone; suspicious circumstances) so Nadia can understand if she's already Witchbombed.
[X] Pleiades.
-[X] Results RE: Tracking Hijiri?
-[X] Consult about developing security measures.
-[X] Return the Memory Device.
-[X]Offer to clear the Derrick Witch Seed in lieu of Arzt Kochen.
[X] Talk about Anri:
-[X] We'll ask Nadia, or an allied group for help.
-[X] How tight a leash do we need on Anri?
-[X] Learning if Anri shared her Witch-out plans with Hijiri.
-[X] Can we join the talk with Anri?
-[X] Terms for Anri:
--[X] Non-hostility.
--[X] Absolutely no Witching Magical Girls.
--[X] Staying at Mitakihara.
--[X] Anti-Magic.
[X] Oriko:
-[X] Be FriendBrina.
-[X] Emphasize the good she's doing.
-[X] Ask her if she'd fulfil this Social role in the team.
[X] Leave Privacy Sphere.
[X] Telepathy Nadia, include Oriko:
-[X] We'll be a little late.
-[X] Ask for help; briefly explain the Anri problem:
--[X] Ask about meguca PR regarding how we deal with Anri.
--[X] We need a minder/guard for Anri.
---[X] Give hints (can't be just anyone; suspicious circumstances) so Nadia can understand if she's already Witchbombed.
[X] Pleiades.
-[X] Results RE: Tracking Hijiri?
-[X] Consult about developing security measures.
-[X] Return the Memory Device.
-[X]Offer to clear the Derrick Witch Seed in lieu of Arzt Kochen.
- Location
- Illinois
PMAS Vote Update Patch 601.1.04:
[X] Talk about Anri:
-[X] We'll ask Nadia, or an allied group for help.
-[X] How tight a leash do we need on Anri?
-[X] Learning if Anri shared her Witch-out plans with Hijiri.
-[X] Can we join the talk with Anri?
-[X] Terms for Anri:
--[X] Non-hostility.
--[X] Absolutely no Witching Magical Girls.
--[X] Staying at Mitakihara.
--[X] Anti-Magic.
[X] Oriko:
-[X] Be FriendBrina.
-[X] Emphasize the good she's doing.
-[X] Ask her if she'd fulfil this Social role in the team.
[X] Leave Privacy Sphere.
[X] Telepathy Nadia, include Oriko:
-[X] We'll be a little late.
-[X] Ask for help; briefly explain the Anri problem:
--[X] Ask about meguca PR regarding how we deal with Anri.
--[X] We need a minder/guard for Anri.
---[X] Give hints (can't be just anyone; suspicious circumstances) so Nadia can understand if she's already Witchbombed.
[X] Pleiades.
-[X] Results RE: Tracking Hijiri?
-[X] Consult about developing security measures.
-[X] Return the Memory Device.
-[X]Offer to clear the Derrick Witch Seed in lieu of Arzt Kochen.
We should be working towards a standard meguca-grade tracking anklet, I expect. We want a way to shove durability, tracking, and anti-magic enchants onto a (single, possibly composite) object. If we could do that it would make this much, much easier, and it would facilitate dealing with future problems in a similar manner.
Anti-magic is, uh, problematic to mix with the others. However I think we could jury rig a thing where -- well, you'd take a handcuff, cover it in a handcuff-shaped piece of, say, rubber, then cover that in a handcuff-shaped piece of steel. Durability and tracking go on the steel cover, antimagic on the handcuff itself. We have the antimagic available, materials are cheap and/or fabricable via grief, tracking and durability we'd need to find people for.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Well, the antimagic probably can be made to work without being separated from the rest, since Kirika's antimagic is selective.
It'll just take Niko more work.
- Location
- Illinois
I suppose we could fake durability by flash-forging diamond from carbon? I'm sure we can do that, it's just sufficient application of physics. And then... Probably Mami can enchant a couple of compasses to always point to each other. That would basically meet our requirements. Assembly would be trivial. You can cut diamond though... Is that a problem?
- Location
- Texas
Diamonds aren't strong. They're very hard, but brittle.
A tracking bracelet made of diamond wouldn't be secure, because all you'd need to do to get it off is bang on it with a rock until it cracked apart. Metals are actually a better choice for "can't be removed without special tools".
A tracking bracelet made of diamond wouldn't be secure, because all you'd need to do to get it off is bang on it with a rock until it cracked apart. Metals are actually a better choice for "can't be removed without special tools".
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Why do diamonds at all? Carbon structures are quite versatile and we have the advantage modern nanotechnology doesn't: we can handcraft large amounts of allotropes in short amounts of time.
Multilayered graphene comes to mind, but that isn't necessarily the best variant.
Edit: I assume we can, because we control Grief on sub-atomic level and are supposedly aware of every particle at any given time. Sabrina, your head is larger than a quantum supercomputer. And you have time to argue with yourself and shitpost. Amazing.
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- Location
- Illinois
Yah, we can probably forge arbitrary, known non-magical material. We'd need somebody to go figure out what to do. But we can do that for durability, Mami can probably do the thing with the compasses, and Kirika antimagic enchants are available. We can probably make this thing and I kinda think we should, even if we have to improve it later.