Glaciers would probably be helped by having further rails and even more processing and offline storage capacity, so the processing and storage can be closer to the new mining zones, and easier accessible, the only issue I see is if we should do Rails for the next few turns or shuttles mixed in with rails.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- USA
One more rail phase secures the Australian red zones.
I'll let the math people check if that's worth it now that we know generally what the red zone stuff is worth.
I'll let the math people check if that's worth it now that we know generally what the red zone stuff is worth.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
Doing some quick napkin math for the new mines.
With bonuses, it should take little less then 3 Tib dice to complete having a cost of 90R. The average output for a completed mine is 65 RpT, so it pays for itself in 1.5 turns. A really good investment overall.
The worrying part is Logistics. We currently have a bit of a surplus that is going to quickly burn up from projects like housing. The only good source of Logistics is Infrastructure, but again housing is a problem. If we don't use Infra-Dice to build more houses, we will quickly go into a housing crisis.
Also, the bit of abatement and power is nice.
With bonuses, it should take little less then 3 Tib dice to complete having a cost of 90R. The average output for a completed mine is 65 RpT, so it pays for itself in 1.5 turns. A really good investment overall.
The worrying part is Logistics. We currently have a bit of a surplus that is going to quickly burn up from projects like housing. The only good source of Logistics is Infrastructure, but again housing is a problem. If we don't use Infra-Dice to build more houses, we will quickly go into a housing crisis.
Also, the bit of abatement and power is nice.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Glaciers will definitely be helped by more +Logistics projects in general. Weirdly, we're probably better off building Suborbital Shuttles (which, costly as they are, are so efficient that you are honestly better off rolling three shuttle dice and leaving two Infrastructure dice fallow than rolling five railroad dice), or Urban Metros (which provide almost as much +Logistics as a phase of railroads for half the cost.
I suspect this is because doing those projects frees up other types of transportation, such as trucks and aircraft, so that we can more easily concentrate vehicles on tasks like this...
If we're lucky, the refugee wave will start to taper off soon. it's been nearly a year since active hostilities ended, after all.
If we're not so lucky, well... we'll just have to do Housing as best we can for Q1 and Q2 on five Infrastructure dice per, while focusing mainly though not entirely on vein mining... Then in Q3 or Q4 we can start putting Free dice on Infrastructure to support heavy Housing construction and +Logistics projects at the same time, while shifting Tiberium focus to Red Zone operations.
Although... hm, I should check this...
RpT yield per die for Red Zone Border Offensive+Deep Red Zone Glacier Mining...
(25+65)/(250+255) = 0.178 RpT per point of Progress.
0.178 RpT/Progress * 89.5 Progress/die = 15.9 RpT per die invested (at -3 Logistics per phase)
RpT yield per die for Red Zone Harvesting+Tiberium Glacier Mining...
(17.5+55)/(150+205) = 0.205 RpT per point of Progress.
0.205 RpT/Progress * 89.5 Progress/die = 18.3 RpT per die invested (at -5 Logistics per phase)
RpT yield per die for Tiberium Vein Mining... assume average cost of next several phases is 195 Progress, and output unchanged from the Q4 figure, so this is pessimistic...
(27.5)/195 = 0.141 RpT per point of Progress.
0.141 RpT/Progress * 89.5 Progress/die = 12.6 RpT per die invested (at -1 Capital Goods per phase)
IF claws increase RpT output from 20-35 to 25-40...
(32.5)/195 = 0.167 RpT per point of Progress
0.167*89.5 = 14.9 RpT per die invested (at -1 Capital Goods per phase)
IF claws help thusly, and if cost per phase continues to decline, such that average cost of Stages 2-8 is, say, 180 points...
(32.5)/180 = 0.181 RpT per point of Progress
0.181*89.5 = 16.2 RpT per die invested.
So... I think vein mining with claws is actually close to competitive for Red Zone operation purposes. Slightly less lucrative, maybe, but also a lot less of a strain on our industrial system, because we can shake loose -1 Capital Goods a lot more easily than -3 Logistics right now.
- Location
- MSC
Sooo.. Vein mines, Another round of border offensive or throw everything at Super glaciers?
Wait..
We haven't found Super Glaciers yet?
Wait..
We haven't found Super Glaciers yet?
Meanwhile vein mines in their current state are .102-.179 RpT per point of progress...though we do have those claws coming that ought to lift that somewhat.
- Location
- MSC
Mines + build up Logistics?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think that IS "Super Glaciers."
Er, because we'd be taking a LOT of phases of vein mines, I sort of used the average figure. In their current state, yeah, around 0.14 RpT per point of progress and 12.6 RpT per die. ALMOST as good as doing an RZBO+super glacier, though not QUITE as good.
With claws, the gap closes to be almost negligible.
Up to a point, but building up Logistics is expensive, especially on the scale we'd need. We'll need to rely on vein mining (which uses Capital Goods, which we have quite a bit of), too.
- Location
- MSC
Shouldn't Liquid Tib be 10+10?
So sounds like we will want to do red zone offensives simply because this is likely the only time we would have available to actually implement them? We won't be able to do them effectively in the future because NOD military would actually be on the ball at that point. So this is a way to sneakily slip more territory away from NOD and undercut their industry? I certainly do like the idea of going on the offense like that!
Cut down on the areas that they can gather resources from and that cuts into their ability to wage war on us! It also means that the vein mines or whatever would be most lucrative would still be ready and waiting for us to implement after we finished those red zone offensives and the connected mining. It may not be the most immediately lucrative of actions to take to regain our budget but I only really ever say our budget as something to be used to take the fight to NOD, take the fight to Tiberium, or build up GDI.
Frankly the first two generally are more effective helping the Third objective simply because the first two have shown immense capability to get around our build up and defenses. Take any NOD masterstroke as an example, or take for example how Tiberium is literally breaching the surface and wrecking our shipyards! The planet isn't going to last the century! We need to go on the offensive as much as we can without falling for any traps. GDI is simply not in a position where we can afford to turtle. We have to be going on the offensive simply because time is not on our side. That fact can only be changed through GDI action. Inaction only makes our situation worse.
Cut down on the areas that they can gather resources from and that cuts into their ability to wage war on us! It also means that the vein mines or whatever would be most lucrative would still be ready and waiting for us to implement after we finished those red zone offensives and the connected mining. It may not be the most immediately lucrative of actions to take to regain our budget but I only really ever say our budget as something to be used to take the fight to NOD, take the fight to Tiberium, or build up GDI.
Frankly the first two generally are more effective helping the Third objective simply because the first two have shown immense capability to get around our build up and defenses. Take any NOD masterstroke as an example, or take for example how Tiberium is literally breaching the surface and wrecking our shipyards! The planet isn't going to last the century! We need to go on the offensive as much as we can without falling for any traps. GDI is simply not in a position where we can afford to turtle. We have to be going on the offensive simply because time is not on our side. That fact can only be changed through GDI action. Inaction only makes our situation worse.
- Location
- USA
Not really.
Red is pretty much a dead zone where basically nothing can survive.
Nod is by far mostly in yellow zones.
They do a lot of their resource gathering from red zones...
- Location
- USA
I'm sure they do some. So do we.
But I imagine the yellow zones have plenty of tiberium to gather.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Which is fine. The Navy asked for W, X, Y and Z at the start of the current Plan. We delivered W and X.
But when the Navy hints that they are going to revise Y and Z, I don't see why we would want to suddenly jump at locking in a capability that was thought of as needed 5 years ago.
Because the Navy will just say: "Okay, build Z then. But we also need new capabilities A and B, because Z doesn't do what we need anymore." But we can't afford to build Z, A and B.
Had to wade through ~14 pages of posts. -_-
Even without the maths, we are likely better off spreading the
And especially across RZ abatement numbers, because someone is about the roll for Mutation.
Edit:
There done.
Looks like the Tib might be returning the goods and asking for a refund. The sonics still work.
And also feeling like sleeping. Those anti mitigation creams are a scam anyway. Maybe in a year's time...
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The point is to substantially cut into their income streams. WE can't do that with yellow zone now can we? Last time that was done we had a MAD scare. So that is off the table. What is on the table is an action that both gives us substantial income, competitive with some of our best options. And at the same time it cuts into NOD's income stream which means it provides even more benefit then just increased income stream. A two for one special!
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- Location
- USA
I really don't think this is a thing that's going to happen because of our red zone stuff.
If they really want to harvest from a red zone they have all kinds of places to choose from where gdi has no presence at all.
Also they have some of our new cutting edge harvesters to reverse engineer. Their income is probably going up no matter what at this point.
- Location
- USA
Ouch.
Oh well. Better luck next time.
Oh well. Better luck next time.
- Location
- MSC
For the record, how does recon works in RZ?
Aerial recon is probably out due to ion storms and Tib radiation blocks scanning?
Aerial recon is probably out due to ion storms and Tib radiation blocks scanning?
- Location
- USA
Zone Trooper patrols are the best we can do I imagine.
Welp we're boned, Sonics need done, and we need to do some more heavy abatement stuff to recoup THAT lol.
