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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Ithillid said:
Because the project is genuinely not that big. It is something where you have a scaling of how much of the army you want to equip, and how fast you want them kitted out. A single phase gets the pointy bits, and everyone else has to wait a while. Full deployment is retiring the GD-2 before the end of the decade.
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Hm. I've seen some question whether or not it even makes sense to roll out the GD-3 with all the other cool stuff in the pipe, but considering the GD-2 is almost a non-factor against nod's main infantry I think I'd much rather it get retired before the end of the decade than not.

I mean, goodness, we're only in 2063!
 
Question is: What is the relative value of infantry warfare right now?

We should roll out the GD-3, but I think it's importance is fairly middling. We can't fit a phase in before Karachi because it has a three quarter deployment timeline, so that goal is already not one we can set. Deployment starting before the end of the plan as a whole might be barely possible, but it will require some comfort with spending free dice on military.
 
MSH said:
Question is: What is the relative value of infantry warfare right now?

We should roll out the GD-3, but I think it's importance is fairly middling. We can't fit a phase in before Karachi because it has a three quarter deployment timeline, so that goal is already not one we can set. Deployment starting before the end of the plan as a whole might be barely possible, but it will require some comfort with spending free dice on military.
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Infantry are the people who hold the ground, so it'll continue being relevant after the Karachi invasion itself. This increases the baseline - it makes it harder to muster force concentration to do something anywhere. That's important to making sure the route we open stays open.
 
Sure, but once we've met the standard of "any rifle" (which we have), the returns on ground occupation are diminishing.

I just think we should be clear that this isn't the ride or die of our ground forces projects. That's the zone armor.

Superior small arms to Nod is a good goal. It's just not a goal that's going to be relevant for some time.
 
I think it is a good solid project.
It isn't flashy, but it is what the general infantry are going to be relying on.
We can't expect the bulk of GDI's forces to be using fancy/expensive weaponry. (And in many cases those aren't the right tools for the job.)
If we push the project hard enough, then it will likely roll out to 'home guard' type forces too. And those people have done really well for us in the past. <salute>
 
MSH said:
Sure, but once we've met the standard of "any rifle" (which we have), the returns on ground occupation are diminishing.
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I don't understand what you mean by "any rifle". The issue is that the GD-2 is ineffective against Gana, which caused no end of problems during the regency war and will continue to be a problem when holding Karachi. It's got nothing to do with how good nod's guns are, and everything to do with how tanky Nod's ground pounders are.

GD-2 is just unfit.
 
The problem is, everyone's in favor of the GD-3 until they have to rummage up the dice to do it and suddenly it's competing with a ton of other things we could, theoretically, be doing over and above our Plan targets.
 
Honestly, I'm expecting the GD-3 to wait on the back burner until the next reallocation, when we need a low cost project to throw our military dice at while building the budget back up.
 
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Prime 2.0 said:
I don't understand what you mean by "any rifle". The issue is that the GD-2 is ineffective against Gana, which caused no end of problems during the regency war and will continue to be a problem when holding Karachi. It's got nothing to do with how good nod's guns are, and everything to do with how tanky Nod's ground pounders are.

GD-2 is just unfit.
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Occupation rarely means actively fighting enemy infantry, and even more rarely enemy infantry who are peer or superior in arms. So the GD-2 is a problem in this specific regard, but it's not as if it is any less sufficient for other tasks.

Thus, zone armor first. Ground forces presumably agree with this or zone armor wouldn't be the tagged project. We can alternate once the plan goal is met but this is a truly huge number of dice, as you'd expect.
 
The last 2 phases of GD-3 are classed as munitions so we really only need active dice on the first 3 phases. Also given the problems Gana have been giving us we probably want to fit in at least one phase this plan.
 
[]Plan Where Are My Fucking Rifles
-[]Military 7/7+2 Dice 145?R
--[] Transorbital Fighter Deployment (Phase 1) 0/??? 2 dice 40?R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 1 die 20R 100%
--[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1) 0/280 5 dice 50R 99%
--[] Island Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 1 die 25R 82%

Probably not getting voted for--classic case of too little too late--but might as well gauge interest.
 
TripleTango said:
[]Plan Where Are My Fucking Rifles
-[]Military 7/7+2 Dice 145?R
--[] Transorbital Fighter Deployment (Phase 1) 0/??? 2 dice 40?R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 1 die 20R 100%
--[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1) 0/280 5 dice 50R 99%
--[] Island Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 1 die 25R 82%

Probably not getting voted for--classic case of too little too late--but might as well gauge interest.
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I forget, is transorbital fighter dev considered steel talons?
 
TripleTango said:
[]Plan Where Are My Fucking Rifles
-[]Military 7/7+2 Dice 145?R
--[] Transorbital Fighter Deployment (Phase 1) 0/??? 2 dice 40?R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 1 die 20R 100%
--[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1) 0/280 5 dice 50R 99%
--[] Island Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 1 die 25R 82%

Probably not getting voted for--classic case of too little too late--but might as well gauge interest.
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A heavy GD-3 deployment would allow us to put extra dice on more expensive projects like portal, just need a steel talons and might drop GD-3 to 4 dice?
 
Speaking of Military Projects we're planning to do, can we wait to do the Next Gen AFV until after we do the MFC Labs project in Heavy Industry?

I remember the MFC development results mention the possibility of fitting a MFC into a Mammoth Tank to both provide power and lower weight, and I want to be able to shove as many goodies and gadgets as we can possibly can into the MK IV, especially with all the new weapon systems both GDI and NOD are coming up with.
 
DarknessSmiles said:
if we do end up doing a GD3 phase, it probably should not be more than 3 dice for the first attempt.
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If we want any amount of rifles for Karachi we need at least one phase done this turn.

[]Plan Where Are My Fucking Rifles (Moas May Not Apply)
-[]Military 7/7+2 Dice 145?R
--[] Transorbital Fighter Deployment (Phase 1) 0/??? 2 dice 40?R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 1 die 20R 100%
--[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1) 0/280 4 dice 40R 85%
--[] Island Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 1 die 25R 82%
--[] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Deployment 0/240 1 die 20R

(It turns out the prior version was 135R. I really need to finish a planner assist spreadsheet some time.)
 
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I have no faith in getting any GD3 rifles in time for Karachi, and very little faith in doing a phase this plan. Zerbite, MARVs, Zone Armor, tech dev, that's all higher priority. Plus I don't greatly feel we need the GD3 right now. The heavier weapons on a Zone Armor suit generally work on a Gana, and when they don't ZA can still beat them to death. Not ideal, but it works. If a change must be made, make more Zone Armor.
 
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Shadows Models Batch 1
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    • At long last I present to you my (first ever) models, created in Blender and posted in order of creation:





    And, as trade for these renders, Ithillid has granted us:

    Scrin 50 - Median Tiberium Refining

    Let the screaming rejoicing commence!
     
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    • Those are some really cool models! I like the Havoc with its cute legs.
    Nottheunmaker said:
    I have no faith in getting any GD3 rifles in time for Karachi, and very little faith in doing a phase this plan. Zerbite, MARVs, Zone Armor, tech dev, that's all higher priority. Plus I don't greatly feel we need the GD3 right now. The heavier weapons on a Zone Armor suit generally work on a Gana, and when they don't ZA can still beat them to death. Not ideal, but it works. If a change must be made, make more Zone Armor.
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    To be fair, the GD-3 does include rifles for Zone Armor:
    Ithillid said:
    But there is also room for something that weighs considerably more, as the GD-M3 has shown. Building machine guns to match new rifle ammunition is an old tradition, almost as old as machine guns and smokeless powder. The issuing of the GD-3 certification at a time when many infantry are expecting to move into power armor creates a need for a power-armor sized weapon. The -M3 is exactly that weapon, being encased and ruggedized for use by power armor, but retaining the same core mechanisms as it's smaller cousin. Where it is superior is sustained fire, ammo capacity, and rapid selection of alternate ammo.
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    The fact that its Scrin Tiberium tech makes it great by itself, but I've got to wonder if it just makes our refineries more efficient, or if there are any other effects.
    Looking at the CNC wiki, the Scrin don't actually require Tiberium Silos, unlike GDI and NOD, so maybe we also get infinite Tiberium Reserves?
     
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