- Location
- South Africa
[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Gotri, the K8P Air Corps, and the Cult of Morgrim
[X] The We
[X] Gotri, the K8P Air Corps, and the Cult of Morgrim
[X] The We
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Darth.
Definitely a heretic
- Location
- The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
@ BoneyM
So right now based on everything we know of magic, Ulgu Tongs breaches the articles. Would this change once we learn more about magic and how it works/can be manipulated as the Waystone project progresses - whether from the elves or Waystones themselves or some other source? Or is it a case of wait, and try it and find out?
So right now based on everything we know of magic, Ulgu Tongs breaches the articles. Would this change once we learn more about magic and how it works/can be manipulated as the Waystone project progresses - whether from the elves or Waystones themselves or some other source? Or is it a case of wait, and try it and find out?
There is absolutely no One Weird Trick that Mathilde could possibly learn from any source that will change the fundamental nature of the Winds. The only possible way to make 'Ulgu Tongs' work is with the deliberate creation and application of Dhar.
Guys can you just accept the dead end already? I was a long time proponent of the project if you will recall and even I am getting sick of hearing about all the ways to burrow through the very solid wall in front of us made of depleted uranium that will kill us if we touch it.
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- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah, at this point, if you want anything even close to multi-wind Nonsense (And even then, it would be something completely different from what y'all are hoping to be able to do), The Vitae seems to be our best bet. And even then we'd probably need a ludicrous amount of time and resources for it.
...Man imagine if the AV ends up being incredibly useful for Waystones or something. Im not versed enough in WH law to guess at how, but 'Liquid Qyash' might combo well with the thing that was partly made using Elf (aka high) magic.
...Man imagine if the AV ends up being incredibly useful for Waystones or something. Im not versed enough in WH law to guess at how, but 'Liquid Qyash' might combo well with the thing that was partly made using Elf (aka high) magic.
Hey, we bought this radioactive chicken egg, and we're going to build a lead lined coop for it even if it kills us /s
But seriously, the whole thing is getting a little sunk cost now. We had a cool idea for an unique interaction with the Winds, and it sort of worked, but only in a black sorcerer "nothing can go wrong, I'm invincible mwhahahaha" sort of way. Dhar is bad mojo, and the "Windcage"* is about using dhar to superpower a spell so that it has enough energy to blast a small stretch of the countryside off the face of the planet. It's a shortcut to a lot of power that we don't want, need or can afford.
*based on how Mathilde tried to catch the winds, this feels like a more accurate name than tongs.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I mean, if they've seen it before, great, we have an idea for potential future leads.
If not, we get to confuse the hell out of some elves, which is a rare occurrence, and justifies us being smug all project.
[X] Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul
[X] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings
After some consideration I am taking Edna off the list, mostly because I would not enjoy reading the interaction as much as the others. Also taking off Dreng because on second thought I do not think he would do well with human kids. In light of things in spoilers I am also adding Panoramia in the hopes of a fun scene with both her and Mathy.
[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul
[X] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings
After some consideration I am taking Edna off the list, mostly because I would not enjoy reading the interaction as much as the others. Also taking off Dreng because on second thought I do not think he would do well with human kids. In light of things in spoilers I am also adding Panoramia in the hopes of a fun scene with both her and Mathy.
I think we are about.... two? actions from being able to write the 'fundamentals' book on AV.
[ ] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic.
[ ] Using the secrets you already know of the Vitae, attempt to weaponize it.
and then two away from the most advanced paper on the topic.
[ ] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.
[ ] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
and then the last thing, if it works, would not be something Mathy should write a paper on.
I think we should wait until we can write the fundamentals book before we start showing it off. then we can find out what the elfs think.
This assumes none of the actions will give rise to other actions as we find out stuff about it. Of course i you count it as fundamental or not is wholly a subjective matter since as far as Mathy knows she is the only human wizard to have seen anything like AV.
- Location
- Earth
@BoneyM This is less tongs, and more a Nature of Magic kind of question: We know each Wind has a different Dhar point(the point where they start trashing about and produce Dhar). What Eshin did was smash all the winds together, including Ulgu, and then use the strand of Ulgu not yet corrupted, yet linked to the Dhar, to command the Dhar, right?
So has Mat tried capturing all the Winds in a loose cage, and then checking what the Dhar point is? How much can you constrain the Winds before they start producing Dhar, or is that a non-starter due to how difficult it was to even try to manipulate one Wind? Or does it keep moving because the Winds are magic and inconsistent?
I'd guess she can't even try that, because for that she'd need to be able to... huh. How did Eshin grab all those different Winds so easy and quickly to work them into Dhar and a functional spell in almost combat conditions? It's probably intent. Mat was trying not to make Dhar, not to touch the winds. The Eshin was always going for Dhar.
Huh.
Anyway, has Mat tried containing/luring multiple winds into an environment, and then using Uglu not to make them do something, but to keep the moving in a semi-consistent manner, so they wouldn't curdle into Dhar? Studying natural and semi-natural multi-wind environments might give her some insight into the nature of the Winds themselves. She already knows Ulgu really well, but learning more about the fundamental nature of the other Winds might be helpful for current and future projects. If she can keep two Winds in the same space, or in the same relatively confined space, and study their behavior, she could try different combinations that she knows aren't concentrated nor still enough to produce Dhar, and study different combinations, IE how the Winds interact beyond the bland "they repel."
Ok, they repel, but how? Equally every time? Do different winds have different repelling distances/points. Are those even consistent? Etc, etc. Not something that should, or perhaps could, be studied normally. But with a Dhar expect on hand, and with no intention of producing Dhar, studying how multiple winds interact more precisely under constraint, yet not Dhar levels one, might produce some interesting knowledge.
Hmm. I wonder if someone already did that, or if mono-wind Wizards already wrote books on the subject of the Winds, that Mat could buy and study. To the library section!
...
Yup, we already have all the books. Ok then, we can compare and contrast any insights Mat might make from such an experiment and see if other people got to them first. If the experiment is viable, that is.
So has Mat tried capturing all the Winds in a loose cage, and then checking what the Dhar point is? How much can you constrain the Winds before they start producing Dhar, or is that a non-starter due to how difficult it was to even try to manipulate one Wind? Or does it keep moving because the Winds are magic and inconsistent?
I'd guess she can't even try that, because for that she'd need to be able to... huh. How did Eshin grab all those different Winds so easy and quickly to work them into Dhar and a functional spell in almost combat conditions? It's probably intent. Mat was trying not to make Dhar, not to touch the winds. The Eshin was always going for Dhar.
Huh.
Anyway, has Mat tried containing/luring multiple winds into an environment, and then using Uglu not to make them do something, but to keep the moving in a semi-consistent manner, so they wouldn't curdle into Dhar? Studying natural and semi-natural multi-wind environments might give her some insight into the nature of the Winds themselves. She already knows Ulgu really well, but learning more about the fundamental nature of the other Winds might be helpful for current and future projects. If she can keep two Winds in the same space, or in the same relatively confined space, and study their behavior, she could try different combinations that she knows aren't concentrated nor still enough to produce Dhar, and study different combinations, IE how the Winds interact beyond the bland "they repel."
Ok, they repel, but how? Equally every time? Do different winds have different repelling distances/points. Are those even consistent? Etc, etc. Not something that should, or perhaps could, be studied normally. But with a Dhar expect on hand, and with no intention of producing Dhar, studying how multiple winds interact more precisely under constraint, yet not Dhar levels one, might produce some interesting knowledge.
Hmm. I wonder if someone already did that, or if mono-wind Wizards already wrote books on the subject of the Winds, that Mat could buy and study. To the library section!
...
Yup, we already have all the books. Ok then, we can compare and contrast any insights Mat might make from such an experiment and see if other people got to them first. If the experiment is viable, that is.
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I would count 'fundamental' as how it reacts to something, why it reacts to something, and some basic uses in of itself.
'Advance' is things like powering runes, enhancements, divine items, powerstones etc etc. using it to affect other subjects.
in that definition, I do think we only have two actions left for fundamental, and anything we learn from there would be advanced.
- Location
- France
@primemountain, some of those experiments sound like Windherder experiments more than Tongs experiments.
Maybe we could try that sort of thing as a "test Windherder" action, or as part of a wider research action about coordinating Winds during the Waystone project?
Maybe we could try that sort of thing as a "test Windherder" action, or as part of a wider research action about coordinating Winds during the Waystone project?
Right.
Untested. Wrangling one Wind was difficult enough, let alone wrangling seven simultaneously. And as it would involve the deliberate creation of Dhar (instead of as an accidental result of a failed experiment) it would be a breach of the Articles.
Getting them close but not touching requires fine control. Getting them close enough to touch and create Dhar just requires a yank, and once Dhar is created it naturally draws in any other Winds its touching.
The natural impulses of the Winds are already extremely well documented.
Rather than get stuck on wind interactions next turn what do you guys say to using a personal research action to look into binding a Red Rider? That is both a branch of magic we know can work and bold research into little studied fields.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Agreed. Tongs is dead, so on e can focus on our other things. Windherder, Apparition bonding, what's left of AV and divine magic study, and artifacts. The first two are my favorites, and I definitely want to get started on apparitions as soon as we're not at a debuff.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah, AV has been something we've had since nearly the start of the quest. I'd really like to get it finished so that we can put it to use in neat ways.
Also because literally liquid rainbows
Also because literally liquid rainbows
Also, quick question, why would this be a bad thing again? Would it make Dhar?
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- Location
- Earth
I mean, if we're going to start doing the sword thing, we should probably finish doing the sword thing with any personal actions left over.
After that, my first next thing would be an artifact: We paid for that nut, I really want to have a better look at it. It would be funny if the "construct additional waystones" has a solution in the form of "plant nut from the world tree to grow a lesser one that serves as a waystone" as a solution.
- Location
- Earth
No idea, we lack the knowledge on how to make powerstones. We'd have to spend an AP on a college course before we can attempt that action.
- Location
- Void
Tongs is less permanently dead and is more in statis beyond the improbable cause for it's usage.
As technically we never explored the idea of binding an Aetheric (am I using the Word right?) Entity, like say the Fish trapped in the box, using Tongs as a proxy of the Caster. Though that may require either altering or building the metaphysical structure practically ground up, or potentially the spell itself as intrinsic to it.
As technically we never explored the idea of binding an Aetheric (am I using the Word right?) Entity, like say the Fish trapped in the box, using Tongs as a proxy of the Caster. Though that may require either altering or building the metaphysical structure practically ground up, or potentially the spell itself as intrinsic to it.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Snake.
Also, like... I'll be blunt, Tongs are a lot of effort and focus for not much gain, even if they did work - Oh sure, now you can cast non-Ulgu spells, but more difficult, with a bunch of people terrified you're going to make Dhar with the slightest screwup, just to do what a Bright or Amber could do with infinitely less effort and ability.