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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Well, it allows for researching divinity, but i have suspicions that priests are not going to be eager to do that.
And collaborating with runesmiths, again, not sure they will be eager to do that.
Mostly it seems like waystone and windherder branch, and that is unlikely to outlast Mathilde's involvement.
 
Mopman43 said:
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration

Honestly, I like this better because it tries to justify why we should establish a branch college in K8P(I'm generally uncaring about the "but the backlog!" arguments).
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Are you generally uncaring about not having any flex AP to do stuff long term that involves the backlog because we're creating obligations here and if they don't assist with the back log then all they are is AP sinks that we can't use for our own projects. Don't get me wrong wind herding will be nice, but it's just one of a set of projects we could engage in.
 
consequences said:
Could someone explain to me how collaboration doesn't help with research, when we've done multiple collaborative research actions with other wizards? Like, at least four pure research actions with three wizards of different colleges off the top of my head.


This seems to be an unwarranted panic attack.
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Well to turn that around look at our research projects and then ask yourelf which of them are inherently collaborative

Mopman43 said:
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration

Honestly, I like this better because it tries to justify why we should establish a branch college in K8P(I'm generally uncaring about the "but the backlog!" arguments).
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It's not so much 'but backlog' as 'but yet more locked AP'. The College is going to have its own collaborative projects which we are not going to be inclined to touch because there is so much stuff in the proverbial line ahead of it. Paradoxically I think the college of collaboration is going to be the college of minimal Mathilde involvement, it is going to be like the EIC. When was the last time we took a single EIC action outside of what we were forced to take?
 
Mmm, can we turn vote back around to not using any boons? At least on branch, library is good.
Because arguments about lack of personal AP benefit, along with it being kind of vague, IMO have value. Better no branch college than a bad one, unironically.
 
I think it's too late to turn back now.
And the next vote would have all the same problems, or brand new ones if Boney changed the information we had at hand, might as well push through and hope for the best.
 
To be honest I think this is a case of the vote being so open ended and the mechanical effects so hard to judge that it is actually hurting our capacity to make informed decisions about where we want the quest to go. I get why the GM might not be inclined to give us those mechanics details because then all the conversation will be about them, but to me at least this looks like lose/lose. Whether you try to anticipate the effects or just argue against even trying you might end up with issues and limitations that were not and could not be foreseen.
 
Valmond said:
I think it's too late to turn back now.
And the next vote would have all the same problems, or brand new ones if Boney changed the information we had at hand, might as well push through and hope for the best.
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Yeah, but, well, its not a figure of speech to say that no branch is better than bad one. Saddling Mathilde with 1.5 AP tax forever is maybe the heftiest investment in the entire game so far, using it on something which won't be useful or not even necessarily all that good is worse than kicking can down the road for another debate, imo.
 
I am getting the feeling a large part of the playerbase does not care one whit about actually dealing with our backlog in an appreciable fashion. Then again, considering the difficulties we've had with getting ap dedicated to research in the first place this should perhaps not be surprising.
 
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride

I don't really want an college if it's not in Laurelorn but I will vote for actually getting something that helps with our backlog.
 
I hope people realise that there's going to be a large AP tax to get the college branch even setup, like this isn't something that will freely give us half actions to spend. We're going to have to spend a sizeable chunk of AP just getting the branch setup before it can even do anything any way. Then there will be the ongoing AP tax of actually running the place afterwards, if we're not getting much personal benefit out of this that'd be pretty tragic given we already have pretty dire AP constraints and this was originally conceived of as a way to get something to help with them rather than make it worse.
 
Impetus said:
I am getting the feeling a large part of the playerbase does not care one whit about actually dealing with our backlog in an appreciable fashion. Then again, considering the difficulties we've had with getting ap dedicated to research in the first place this should perhaps not be surprising.
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for me, its just that

A: I like the idea of an artefact guild more
B: I dont think the Collaboration will outlive mathy and her windherder/belt.

for the first, any of the head enchanters of the colleges could take over if mathy dies, but there really isn't any guarantee anyone will come with the right skills to and take over the collab college.
 
Man, I'm not actively participating in the discussion anymore but I'm getting whiplash with the changes in opinion. I don't see understand how collaboration locks us out of investigating artifacts together with Max @SuperSonicSound.
 
I think I've settle on a choice.

Ultimately, the branch collage is a reward for Mathilde's hard work. Sure, we're high minded enough to look at applications beyond serving our personal aims, but ultimately, the branch college exists to aid and support Mathilde in what ever she needs doing.

That's why I'm going "natural philosophy and enchantments". Having a centre for multidisciplinary research is all well and good, but that is a method, not an objective, and the objective here is "strengthen Mathilde's ability to conduct research". Collaboration is a tool towards that end (and arguably an important tool), but not an end in of itself.

This isn't a school of witchcraft and wizardry; this is Mathilde's personal squad of researchers. And I think the charter should reflect that.

[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
 
I find the fears that a collaboration college won't help with our backlog overblown.

Golden Arm - Grey-Gold Collab
Kurgan Enchanted Weapons - Grey-Gold Collab
Ghyran Nut - Grey-Jade Collab
Windsoak Mushrooms - Jade/All
Aethyric Vitae - It contains all the winds, All
Windherder - All about winds together, All
Kurgan Shrine to Mannslieb - Hire a priest of Manaan
 
Well, this is a bit unfortunate. I like the new library boon description quite a lot, but I also feel like the old branch research focus is superior to the new collab focus. For those of you worried that the old research focus is a random collection of Mat's backlog, lets not forget that geology, metallurgy, ecology, enchanting and artifice are all entire fields. It's not like research opportunities are going to run out when we finish our backlog, thats like saying ecology is finished because you discovered one new type of tree. Focussing only on collaboration instead feels like it would lack quite a lot of depth in comparison.
 
I think collaboration is an end in itself for some voters.
And that's fine.
Problem is that without specific projects to feed that goal, collaboration is hard to sustain long term.

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Redshirt Army said:
Golden Arm - Grey-Gold Collab
Kurgan Enchanted Weapons - Grey-Gold Collab
Ghyran Nut - Grey-Jade Collab
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Is there a reason other than the owner being a Grey Lady Magister that these projects have grey label on them?
 
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Redshirt Army said:
I find the fears that a collaboration college won't help with our backlog overblown.

Golden Arm - Grey-Gold Collab
Kurgan Enchanted Weapons - Grey-Gold Collab
Ghyran Nut - Grey-Jade Collab
Windsoak Mushrooms - Jade/All
Aethyric Vitae - It contains all the winds, All
Windherder - All about winds together, All
Kurgan Shrine to Mannslieb - Hire a priest of Manaan
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The Grey-X Colabs mean in practice Mathilde has to sink a full AP and then we will get some help from a wizard of a different Wind to help. It is not like any grey wizard will do so really it is worse than the current duckling club where we are just assigning mostly someone else to do the job.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Grey-X Colabs mean in practice Mathilde has to sink a full AP and then we will get some help from a wizard of a different Wind to help. It is not like any grey wizard will do so really it is worse than the current duckling club where we are just assigning mostly someone else to do the job.
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Also any wind herder project will require Mathilde being personally involved until we find another wizard with the trait, if one even exists.
 
Resonant said:
Man, I'm not actively participating in the discussion anymore but I'm getting whiplash with the changes in opinion. I don't see understand how collaboration locks us out of investigating artifacts together with Max @SuperSonicSound.
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Because it's literally not part of the charter? If you want to investigate artifacts that's a specific thing.


Redshirt Army said:
I find the fears that a collaboration college won't help with our backlog overblown.

Golden Arm - Grey-Gold Collab
Kurgan Enchanted Weapons - Grey-Gold Collab
Ghyran Nut - Grey-Jade Collab
Windsoak Mushrooms - Jade/All
Aethyric Vitae - It contains all the winds, All
Windherder - All about winds together, All
Kurgan Shrine to Mannslieb - Hire a priest of Manaan
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I mean this list is kind of bonkers. There's nothing about a solid half of things here that comes under the definition of collaboration and with the way you're using it literally anything could conceivably be part of it, I some how don't think that's how things will work or the way BoneyM will run with things but if that vote wins I sure hope i'm wrong.

These three in particular have no merit.

Golden Arm - Grey-Gold Collab
Kurgan Enchanted Weapons - Grey-Gold Collab
Ghyran Nut - Grey-Jade Collab

In what way are any of these requiring collaboration to investigate? The first three are complete stretches to try and justify it.

"Charter: Research: Studies involving collaboration between the Colleges of Magic, and between the Colleges and divine miracle-workers, with a particular focus on working with Runesmiths."

This to me reads to looking into how wizards and priests can do collaborative projects intersecting magic and the divine to make things of both

Windherder is a quasi-solid fit under here for the multi college collab, AV is tenuous just because it releases multiple winds doesn't mean that collaboration is important to the research except via windherding.

Windsoak mushrooms fits just about although it doesn't require wizards of other types to do the base leg work just test the end results.


Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The issue I have is that collaboration is a tool, not a purpose. Yeah, we'll need to collaborate for many of our research projects, but I don't think making a collage dedicated to developing that tool is as helpful as a collage that can call in specialists as needed for specific projects.
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This with the way the vote is written, it's about developing collaboration tools not about engaging in it.
 
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Why are people still voting for RRSR? Isn't CUCC (yeesh that acronym) basically the same thing just better worded and guaranteeing it'll be for everyone? People who want the idea behind RRSR of disseminating knowledge to all, should be voting CUCC (AFAICT) instead.
 
Darth. said:
Why are people still voting for RRSR? Isn't CUCC (yeesh that acronym) basically the same thing just better worded and guaranteeing it'll be for everyone? People who want the idea behind RRSR of disseminating knowledge to all, should be voting CUCC (AFAICT) instead.
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We have just had pages of people explaining why one is different from the other.
Charters matter.
 
Valmond said:
Also any wind herder project will require Mathilde being personally involved until we find another wizard with the trait, if one even exists.
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Considering we're able to confer the benefits of Dhar insight with a paper I highly doubt that.

We have to formalize the methods, but I expect windherder to be something we can teach. A college where people learn and advance it basically becomes necessary once that ball really gets rolling, but until then it's applicable to our loot backlog.
 
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