- Location
- Finland
I am sceptical of our ability to transfer traits.
Some we might, others we might not. Wind Herder is something that i suspect would require lot of practical experience outside classroom to develop.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Some we might, others we might not. Wind Herder is something that i suspect would require lot of practical experience outside classroom to develop.
In my opinion, CUCC, as it's currently worded, is about developing collaboration as a tool for arcane research.
RRSR is about doing arcane research that might be dependent upon collaboration.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I fail to see how making a college with the purpose of studying multi wind magic is unsuited to the task of teaching people about multi wind magic.
I also fail to see any argument that the full trait is necessary to follow instructions given by the person who has it, or work with a subset of what it can do if taught by someone who has it.
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- Location
- Finland
Human magic is highly individualized to a point it is impossible to teach some spells to other wizards.
We got our dhar insights from reading a book, we can write down those insights into another book if we so desire.
Traits not gained from reading a book might be more difficult to transfer, if at all.
And even if possible, it will take time i suspect we may not have, or will be willing to use.
- Location
- Czech Republic
The discussion about the feasibility of teaching others windherding is bit pointless.
Both plans have it in the charter.
Both plans have it in the charter.
That is not what they are saying, rather that wind herder is unique to Mathilde's understanding of magic and cannot be transferred or at least it is unique enough. Keep in mind that in spite of Waagh and Peace existing there are not hundreds of mages out there with the full waagh-bane trait. So the question becomes, does a watered down Windherder trait provide enough insight to actually be used as Mathilde would? The honest answer is 'hell if we know, we have not used the trait once'. In the absence of any positive evidence I hope you can see how skepticism might be warranted.
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- Location
- Finland
But one charter has lot more than the other not dependent on wind herder (or priests).
Yes, but one of those plans has other stuff to fall back if it does not pan out, the other is rather bare in that regard.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
It'd be great to have a branch college where they could get that experience then!
Basic "Windherding" where you put two enchantments on separate components of a multi-component device without allowing the magic to directly interact is something that most mages should be capable of, and some will find a knack for doing it more precisely.
Remember, the Eye of Gazul didn't require the Windherder trait to build.
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The eye of Gazul is also a mountain. That is a lot of room to work with which most items do not have. It also involved the skills of Kragg the Grim. If that is the standards of skill you need to 'wind herd' then a wide ranging ability that does not look to be.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Said spells are the product of interacting with a mutated soul, while windherder is explicitly an external only process.
We have taught other people the benefits of Waaghsbane just fine. We have Boney saying we could give people the benefit of Dhar insight just fine. You can't just say "I doubt you can give people any benefits from a trait except for the ones you can give people, also this is one of the former". Windherder isn't a personality trait, it's learned. We learned it from experience, but that doesn't mean we can't teach it - you know, like how we taught Johann to use his windsight better.
Considering 1ap was enough for a series of lectures delivered to hundreds of people for waaghsbane... I find AP concerns to be overblown as well.
- Location
- Czech Republic
Yeah, I'm voting for the original plan.
The original plan already has enchantment and artifice as part of its charter.
We can actually cooperate with people without having to specify that in the charter.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Good thing the other alternative plan explicitly has multi-wind efforts as part of its charter and whole heck of a lot of other topics besides. The collaboration charters focus is to narrow.
[] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration
-[] Branch College
--[] Headquarters: Karag Nar
--[] Charter: Research: Studies involving collaboration between the Colleges of Magic, and between the Colleges and divine miracle-workers, with a particular focus on working with
[] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
-[] Branch College
--[] Headquarters: Karag Nar
--[] Charter: Research (multi-wind studies (including waystones), geological, metallurgical, and ecological studies, enchanting and artifice)
Multi-wind studies. That's clear wind herder/waystones and multi-wind enchantments. So both plans have no difference on that front, the difference is RRSR has broader mandate to study the wider world, where as CUCC does not and the charter is over focused on the idea of collaboration rather than what that collaboration is meant to achieve. It's a badly written charter unless BoneyM allows it to be taken in the widest possible interpretation where literally anything is allowed as long as more than one wizard could conceivably be involved. I don't think that's the interpretation BoneyM will use but I'll be very happy if i'm wrong.
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Library
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
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Yes it is an external process, that is dependent on out massive learning skill and Volans grade mage sight. Even when we are not talking about masteries human magic is strictly dependent on the paradigm of the mage because humans are bad at generalizing, they are mystics. As for Waagh and Peace only taking one AP, well do we know what that AP bought? How much did anyone there understand? Once again hell if we know.
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Library
-[X] Branch College
--[X] Headquarters: Karag Nar
--[X] Charter: Research (multi-wind studies (including waystones), geological, metallurgical, and ecological studies, enchanting and artifice)
--[X] Colleges (all)
-[X] Karak Eight Peaks: To the degree it safely and sustainably can, let K8P gather, preserve, and disseminate knowledge to all goodly folk. Let the tool of this boon be a library and all the books that might be gathered to it, watched over by those of any race who would swear and be accepted as librarians.
-[X] Karak Kadrin Engineers Guild: A gyrocarriage
For those that like the library wording of College of Collaboration but prefer the branch college of RRSR.
One point in favor of the RRSR charter that makes it more cohesive than it looks at first glance: most of the charter are things that naturally lend themselves towards cooperating with the locals of K8P, particularly Dwarves. Yeah, they're the things the Duckling Club are interested in, but there's a reason the Duckling Club is still here in K8P, which is because K8P is well suited towards those things.
EDIT: Additional approval votes:
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration
[X] Plan: Research into jolly cooperation, and a library.
[X] Plan: Plan Simple Research
-[X] Branch College
--[X] Headquarters: Karag Nar
--[X] Charter: Research (multi-wind studies (including waystones), geological, metallurgical, and ecological studies, enchanting and artifice)
--[X] Colleges (all)
-[X] Karak Eight Peaks: To the degree it safely and sustainably can, let K8P gather, preserve, and disseminate knowledge to all goodly folk. Let the tool of this boon be a library and all the books that might be gathered to it, watched over by those of any race who would swear and be accepted as librarians.
-[X] Karak Kadrin Engineers Guild: A gyrocarriage
For those that like the library wording of College of Collaboration but prefer the branch college of RRSR.
One point in favor of the RRSR charter that makes it more cohesive than it looks at first glance: most of the charter are things that naturally lend themselves towards cooperating with the locals of K8P, particularly Dwarves. Yeah, they're the things the Duckling Club are interested in, but there's a reason the Duckling Club is still here in K8P, which is because K8P is well suited towards those things.
EDIT: Additional approval votes:
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration
[X] Plan: Research into jolly cooperation, and a library.
[X] Plan: Plan Simple Research
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- Location
- Czech Republic
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Library
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
Sure I'll approval vote. @LadyLynn you might want to do the same in case the plan does not catch up.
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Library
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
There are lots of things you can achieve without the trait, it's just that the Eye of Gazul is the one that Mathilde did.
A gold and a jade mage working together could make a steam tank have inexhaustible fuel and leave no tracks as it passed through the wilderness without needing windherder.
Quite the opposite going by QM statements. The fact there are 5 other fields means that the focus is broader, and thus there's less of a hook for why to go to that college.
When our college is unlikely to have more than 10 members for quite a while if you're only interested in 1/6th of the subjects then you've got a decent chance of turning up and finding out you're the only person interested in that - and therefore wishing you'd stayed in Altdorf. So you don't bother coming, and the next person has the same issue.
When there's one key theme you're guaranteed to find others who share your interest.
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You assume they can, but we do not know for sure until someone hands out a irreplaceable steam tank to a bunch of wizards to experiment on. There is a lot we do not know about anything like multi-wind enchantment, in fact the most we know is that Mathilde has a trait that allows it .
Darth.
Definitely a heretic
- Location
- The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
That's not very helpful given not everyone has time to read every single post.
Regardless I've read the subsequent messages from people quoting me and I've realized I really like the Library aspect of CUCC but I also like the College aspect of RRSR. If there was a plan that put them together it'd be perfect honestly.
Yeah okay this changes things for me. If this interpretation is correct I'm going to have to support RRSR too, not just CUCC.
Edit: Noticed someone did come up with a plan that puts them together and I'm voting for that instead of CUCC and approval voting RRSR since I care more about the College and can tolerate a slightly more subpar Library (especially given Belegar is still probably going to go ham on it).
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Library
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
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- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
And that it can be done without said trait as long as you give the winds enough room - which putting one on "engine" and another on "wheels" would do.
Or are you saying that we don't know if someone can wear Jade enchanted armour and wield a Bright enchanted sword?
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Library
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I actually think both sides have made fairly good arguments, so I don't particularly mind either of them winning. Also, taking a side there will probably be bad for my head.
...Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this still count as a vote, even with the strikethrough?