Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting will open in 6 hours, 37 minutes
Reader mode
Ok, I can live with this, it seems more focused than the original Library+ plan and to be honest more focused than what I was voting for too.

[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration
 
Valmond said:
Ulgu tongs in this case is using ulgu to manipulate other winds without having to channel the magic.
Necromancers do it to make dhar, but it should be theoretically possible to do so without creating dhar.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It is worth noting that there is a problem with the theory. The nature of Dhar is destructive brute force and ignorance type solutions. Using tongs to directly manipulate and redirect another wind is itself a brute force type of solution. It is hard to gauge prior to doing any research to what degree this is a problem.
 
Rotekian said:
It is worth noting that there is a problem with the theory. The nature of Dhar is destructive brute force and ignorance type solutions. Using tongs to directly manipulate and redirect another wind is itself a brute force type of solution. It is hard to gauge prior to doing any research to what degree this is a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Winds naturally repel each other, and if forced into contact create dhar. But using the repelling nature to of the winds it should be possible to guide one wind with another.
That the tongs may not allow for practical spell casting, is not a problem with the theory, just a practical limitation to what can be acchieved by applying it.
And we need to do the research to find out where the limits are.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I like this phrasing, so I give my blessing to change the library phrasing to it, but it's really up to @Jreengus to decide whether to change it, as she's the one who's actually holding the current original "Plan Redshirt" post that the poll is pinging off of. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I haven't read through all the stuff that got posted while I was asleep yet, but I've edited the two plans I posted to use this phrasing, that said the most popular version of your plan with the gyrocarriage isn't one I posted, I can't actually remember who did.

Edit:
BoneyM said:
Can't say I like the idea of overhauling the wording of a vote after so many have voted for its original form.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I probably should have read a bit further, I can go back at change them back if you want Boney, though as I said the most popular version of the vote I edited was the one with 11 votes not the one in third place.
 
Last edited:
Speaking about our accumulated backlog…

Let's make a small list about what do we have in it shall we:

-Waystone Project (gonna collaborate, of course, no reason why not, hell we likely could get a few people from it after it's concluded).
-The Vampire Skulls??? (Don't know if it would be a good idea but's it is in the list)
-Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands (not much to look at, probably just a read of it really)
-Golden Arm (I don't know much of the lore so I have no idea what this could be)
-Ghyran Nut (also don't know what this could be but I got the impression that the elves may know something about this? Or Mathilde's girlfriend?)
-Kurgan Shine to Mannsleib (nice excuse to learn more about the Kurgans)
-Kurgan Enchanted Weapons (same)
-Windsoak Mushrooms
-Aethyric Vitae (not much left to study about it (I think) but all the more reason to finish it)


Stuff we will not share with the Branch College:

-Ranald's Coin (nobody is touching this except us so this is out)
-Branulhune (same as above, at most we ask Kragg about the strange light)
-Tongs (if I understand it correctly this is borderline forbidden research)


Hum. The list is not as big as it once was but some of these will take forever to research.

Hey, here is an idea: if we ever get close to run out of stuff to research (HA!) we can visit Uzkulak again using our new flying transport and buy some more stuff. Maybe free some slaves while we are at it too. I'm sure that nothing could possibly go wrong with this idea. :tongue:
 
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration

I prefer that, because the knowledge of the library is much more accessible. It doesn't do any good to have that library is hardly anyone can read its books. Also, I like the idea of working with non-imperial magic users.
 
[] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration

Am i the only one that thought the quest Webbed Up In Conspiracy [Ducktales] was another divided loyalties spinoff?
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration
-[X] Branch College
--[X] Headquarters: Karag Nar
--[X] Charter: Research: Studies involving collaboration between the Colleges of Magic, and between the Colleges and divine miracle-workers, with a particular focus on working with Runesmiths.
--[X] Colleges (all)
-[X] Karak Eight Peaks: To the degree it safely and sustainably can, let K8P gather, preserve, and disseminate knowledge to all goodly folk. Let the tool of this boon be a library and all the books that might be gathered to it, watched over by those of any race who would swear and be accepted as librarians.
-[X] Karak Kadrin Engineers Guild: A gyrocarriage


If it wasn't for the title saying College I'd have only a very vague idea of what the intent of this plan is. As it is, I like the idea of our boon being used for our research branch. At least I assume what is going on here is building a university with an attached wizard college.
 
Valmond said:
Winds naturally repel each other, and if forced into contact create dhar. But using the repelling nature to of the winds it should be possible to guide one wind with another.
That the tongs may not allow for practical spell casting, is not a problem with the theory, just a practical limitation to what can be acchieved by applying it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It seems quite likely it will be impractical to cast spells that way; manipulating a Wind into a spell isn't easy, and there's a reason that painters aren't in the habit of holding their brush in a pair of tongs.

Moreover, it's hard for me to see how the concept isn't largely redundant with Windherder. If we want to achieve effects with more Winds than Mathilde can personally manipulate, we already have a trait for an ability to direct the use of multiple Winds in concert. Getting an expert caster in that Wind to contribute their Wind seems infinitely more appealing to me than sinking AP into trying to make Mathilde a half-assed off-brand version of another College's mages.

Like... the biggest issue with pursuing the "Ulgu tongs" idea to me isn't that I think it's probably impractical (though I do), it's that I don't think it would actually be worth it even if it worked. Clumsily replicating spells that other wizards can already cast expertly strikes me as more of a party trick than a gamechanger, ESPECIALLY when we have an already-existent trait for combining Winds that we've yet to explore at all.
 
Fayhem said:
It seems quite likely it will be impractical to cast spells that way; manipulating a Wind into a spell isn't easy, and there's a reason that painters aren't in the habit of holding their brush in a pair of tongs.

Moreover, it's hard for me to see how the concept isn't largely redundant with Windherder. If we want to achieve effects with more Winds than Mathilde can personally manipulate, we already have a trait for an ability to direct the use of multiple Winds in concert. Getting an expert caster in that Wind to contribute their Wind seems infinitely more appealing to me than sinking AP into trying to make Mathilde a half-assed off-brand version of another College's mages.

Like... the biggest issue with pursuing the "Ulgu tongs" idea to me isn't that I think it's probably impractical (though I do), it's that I don't think it would actually be worth it even if it worked. Clumsily replicating spells that other wizards can already cast expertly strikes me as more of a party trick than a gamechanger, ESPECIALLY when we have an already-existent trait for combining Winds that we've yet to explore at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are talking about a situation where access to another wizard is an option.
The value of tongs is in not needing another wizard.
Yes, any spellcasting, if even possible (which is not guaranteed), would be too slow to be useful in combat, and unlikely to allow for more complex spells, but it would increase utility.
Paired with windherder, ability to make multi wind enchanted items without another wizard might be the greatest acchievement, and if we can refine the technique enough, we might be able to either get rid of windherder requirement.

However, the main reason i have for investigating the tongs and furthering the theory (well, more of a hypothesis really at this point), is finding out if it is possible. And if it is possible, what can be acchieved through it. What i am after is less expansion of our abilities (though that is a welcome bonus), but expanding general knowledge of magic.
 
Valmond said:
You are talking about a situation where access to another wizard is an option.
The value of tongs is in not needing another wizard.
Yes, any spellcasting, if even possible (which is not guaranteed), would be too slow to be useful in combat, and unlikely to allow for more complex spells, but it would increase utility.
Paired with windherder, ability to make multi wind enchanted items without another wizard might be the greatest acchievement, and if we can refine the technique enough, we might be able to either get rid of windherder requirement.

However, the main reason i have for investigating the tongs and furthering the theory (well, more of a hypothesis really at this point), is finding out if it is possible. And if it is possible, what can be acchieved through it. What i am after is less expansion of our abilities (though that is a welcome bonus), but expanding general knowledge of magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That utility increase will almost certainly be entirely in the form of college rep from writing a paper on Tongs. Assuming it is possible.
 
Well thats grand so much for getting a college branch that would assist with our backlog. Nothing in that college charter points at researching things like Av the golden arm or the Nut. Wind herding is only just covered under this as well. Those of you that want to use this for our own research need to raise your voice because the winning option now basically only works for wond herder maybe.

'Studies involving collaboration between the Colleges of Magic, and between the Colleges and divine miracle-workers, with a particular focus on working with Runesmiths.'

Almost nothing in our backlog is applicable to that.
 
[X] Plan: Research, References, and A Sweet Ride

I can't say I like the shift from studying enchanting and magical objects to 'collaborate magic' as the focus of the research centre so I'm switching back.
 
Shard said:
That utility increase will almost certainly be entirely in the form of college rep from writing a paper on Tongs. Assuming it is possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also access to spells we currently do not have, if casting is possible.
Though there might be some insight into counterspelling and dispelling to be gained through the study.
 
Shard said:
That utility increase will almost certainly be entirely in the form of college rep from writing a paper on Tongs. Assuming it is possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Increased insight into other winds of magic for dispelling, increased understanding of the other winds of magic for windherding and enchanting. The ability to make the Elves go "Shut the fuck up what?" also given that Shyish tongs allows for combat casting with dhar I wouldn't be so certain that it's limited to enchanting any way.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Increased insight into other winds of magic for dispelling, increased understanding of the other winds of magic for windherding and enchanting. The ability to make the Elves go "Shut the fuck up what?" also given that Shyish tongs allows for combat casting with dhar I wouldn't be so certain that it's limited to enchanting any way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The former two could be done with direct Windherding attempts, the third is in fact college rep, the last feels unlikely to me unless we're willing to in fact use Dhar.
 
Ugh. Can someone please explain to me why a charter which doesn't do anything for our actual objective [CLEAR THE BACKLOG] is winning?

--[] Charter: Research: Studies involving collaboration between the Colleges of Magic, and between the Colleges and divine miracle-workers, with a particular focus on working with Runesmiths.

Redshirt Army said:
It'll be just fine for researching Waystones, Aethyric Vitae, Tongs, and Windherding.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It really isn't that useful for these either.

The first is literally - Do our job even harder. Meaning that by previous habits nothing else will ever get done and making the entire point of the research branch moot.
AV - There is precisely 1. 1 AV action that falls within this remit - [ ] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic. Runesmiths are either going to use it for recharge or want to work out what else it can do with pure runes, so that's just back to selling it. Otherwise we're straight back to square - nothing ever gets done.
Tongs - The GM has already said no.
Windherding - The only thing on here that it might meaningfully shift at. Except Windherding is Mathilde's talent and may well require Mathilde to devote more time and effort to it because she's currently irreplaceable. Plus it was easily encapsulated in both the previous leading votes focuses on enchantment which also covered other things.
Shrine - Maybe the shrine if the priests don't tell us to burn it immediately.

Leaving on the shelf-
Most of AV
Branalhune underwater thing - I think we know what this is OOC but not IC.
Nut
Elf Notes
Arm
Magic weapons
Vampire skulls - It's on the artefact list.
Apparitions
Quite possibly - Windsight enchantment if researchers say it's a single wind thing.
Tongs
Coin

It doesn't do what we wanted a research section to do, which is meaningfully reduce our backlog. Mostly it seems to be a way to increase our work actions, which historically hasn't lead to more non-work actions being taken.

Edit: I may have come across as more confrontational than necessary.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting will open in 6 hours, 37 minutes
Remove ads
Back
Top