- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
I mean we may have the option of Blank Check Boon where we can literally do that.
But The Great Library of Karak Eight Peaks is better.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
But The Great Library of Karak Eight Peaks is better.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
They aren't super expensive in terms of Dwarf Favour, are they? We should be able to afford them.
- Location
- Sweden
We should be able to pay in AV to not-Kragg and the rest is just gold.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Boney said we'll have a Penthouse option in the coming turn to install batteries of the four Winds we lack. The last battery we built cost only gold, not favours, and we're pretty damn well-off. It's not a problem.
(Also, the sort of Favour we're low on is College, not Dwarf. We've got DF for days even without dipping into the AV stockpiles.)
EDIT: Citations:
We can build the necessary equipment to research the remaining 'shrooms in 1 AP, probably without spending Favour.
And we can easily afford it, even if we have to pay back the debt to Borek.
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- Location
- Finland
Sure, but i thought we were talking about the research institute, which is separate from waystone project.
There might be need for specialised equipment for waystone research, but we will be years, if not decades, away from building actual waystones, instead of just messing with pre existing ones.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I bet the process of codifying Battle Magic is much different than other spells. It feels plausible that, on top of Mathilde writing the full paper on it, explaining the theory, she has to also teach probably Melkoth in person. That's how we needed to learn MMM from him, after all. And it should definitely bring us a decent chunk of favor, not many are out there inventing new Battle Magic.
On another note entirely, I just remembered how much I appreciate the legendary Lady Magister Mathilde Weber's greatest magical working being a logistics spell. It's so understated compared to the Flashy Dramatic combat spells, it is searingly practical and solid in a way that proves just how Dwarf-like Mathilde has become.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Why wouldn't we want to make the research institute useful for waystone related studies? After all if it's in K8P it has a waystone right next door. Feels wasteful to build a research institute that's not suited to the primary sort of research we're planning on doing...
- Location
- Finland
Because we want to keep them separate?
We need non imperial magic users for he waystone project, and i atleast want the research institute exist under imperial banner so we can make it with great deeds, so tying them too directly kinda starts rubbing too close to articles.
And, again, it may take a decade or more until we are messing with making waystones, and we might never get that far.
Making high resource rooms that the institute does not need, and might be unable to use, seems wasteful.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
Or it could hit retroactively. Five thousand years ago some random ancestor had to go on an epic quest to lift a curse no one ever figured out where the hell it came from.
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- Location
- Canada
I, for one, want to pursue our Waystone project from the deck of a Thunderbarge, decked out with as many magical enchantments and RUNES as we can possibly fit on it.
Protective runes on the balloon (can we make the balloon out of spider silk?), enchantments for speed or stealth or magical research, rune cannons with magical ammunition, just fancy that zeppelin the heck up.
Protective runes on the balloon (can we make the balloon out of spider silk?), enchantments for speed or stealth or magical research, rune cannons with magical ammunition, just fancy that zeppelin the heck up.
- Location
- USA
K8P has spider silk ready? And Mathilde didn't know? Has Gretel beaten her to silk sheets? Has Ranald forsaken her?!
- Location
- Russia
We didn't need to learn Miasma from specifically him. How'd you think people learn Battle Magic created long ago by either impossible to reach Elven mages or just dead? Though, his insights helped Mathilde to learn spell and achieve its better deeper understanding, which helped us to develop RoW (as least that's what I'm getting from this Boney answer).
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- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
My current understanding is that you don't have to learn it from the inventor, but you really are way better off learning it from a teacher - learning battle magic is hard enough that you want every bonus you can get, and learning it from a text means no tutoring bonus.
So just writing the paper and refusing to teach it might get it "on the books" but with no-one ever bothering to learn the thing; because no-one will be available to tutor them.
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- Location
- Canada
Well, no, but I'm sure we can throw money at the problem.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While I agree that we should probably just wait and see, I'm ALSO going to exercise my prerogative of blatant hypocrisy and say that I'd expect it to be easier to recruit, fund, and organize non-Imperial magic users if the research institute is built under K8P's authority rather than under the Empire's. I will note that I'm saying "easier," because it would probably still be possible to work out some loophole-based way to work with non-Imperial magic users (I'm going to abbreviate that to NIMUs now).
But, every proposal I've heard to make that fly under the Articles sounds like it would entail setting up multiple legally distinct research entities (a minimum of two, one for College mages and one for NIMUs). This creates multiple problems. One, any entity directly employing NIMUs cannot be funded by the Deeds. If we have to fund that out of pocket, it will get extremely expensive extremely quickly. Finding data on how much you're expected to pay wizards etc. is a pain and a half; the only number I could find from WFRP 2e was that a Wizard Lord's expected pay per year was 300-800 gold. If we take that as our referent, then if we wanted anybody of a roughly equivalent rank to us to be involved, we could afford very few of them and not for very long. If we assume an equivalent to a "regular" Magister is, idk, half that, it still adds up very quickly, and that's independent of any costs for providing research materials and etc. that we might be expected to cover. Two, anything that isn't being officially part of whatever institute was formally legitimated by the Empire or K8P would presumably be accordingly less prestigious. This would make it harder to attract good candidates, and whoever's willing would probably want more money as well to compensate for the less impressive item on their resume. Three, have you ever taken a look at the bureaucracy for one college? Do you really want to organize multiple such bureaucracies with the intent to have them operate in tandem? That's just asking for trouble IMO. And if we hire the NIMUs without setting up a specific legal framework/institution to do the hiring - as "independent consultants" or whatever - that raises the question of who exactly is doing the hiring. It can't be us in our capacity as a Magister of the Empire, because that would, again, fall in violation of the Articles. If we hired them as K8P's Loremaster that might work, but AFAICT the plan is we'll probably leave that role to focus more heavily on Waystones. It just... gets messy, one way or another.
So the tl;dr is that what I expect to get out of a Boon research center that we can't get out of a Deed research center is "making everything that isn't hiring and working with exclusively Collegiate mages easier, cheaper, and less complicated".
- Location
- Oklahoma
Belegar has been throwing money at the problem, no luck so far.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
It's not exactly loophole searching. Afaik it has been explicitly mentioned that we can try to improve our spell before trying to codify it. The question is, other than a generic "less difficult" or "more scalable", what improvements can we even attempt? I thought maybe weaving in an optional slow effect could be an option. Someone else thought that making it able to surmount harder obstacles could be an option. Turns out both is definitely not possible. But something else might be.
- Location
- Argentina
Clearly the solution is ot use the Gambler on this, and in exchange the EiC gets a nice cut of the profits.
- Location
- Finland
It could, however, make hiring imperial magic users more difficult.
And if we do waystones under Belegar then we can hire non imperial magic users on his dime so the expense is not a major factor (and the point is to get everyone to buy into the project, not merely hire them).
Also, what do people want the research institute for?
I want one to help colleges do more research into magic through imperial paradigm, the setting does not really have a history for multicultural research institutions or free sharing of knowledge, so i doubt a BOON institute would suddenly make everyone happy to share.
Great Deed institute will get me evrything i want form research institute, while the Great Deed Library would remain vulnerable to the same problems imperial libraries already do.
- Location
- Spain
To be honest? To help us clearing the research projects that we have...
And since waystones won I am sure we will find lots and lots of to add to that queue.
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- Location
- Finland
We could just hand out our research projects if people wanted that.
But we won't, because we want the favour for ourselves.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It has not. It seems likely, but I am very confident no such explicit statement has been made; the "how can we improve Rite of Way" discussion was entirely thread-generated after our poor rolls on a few expedition turns. My guess is that attempts to alter its function will 1) be difficult and 2) come with trade-offs elsewhere unless we super-crit or something.
Use the Gambler on what, exactly? The problem is that the weavers haven't been able to weave it:
How do you propose Mathilde solve this problem? She's not a weaver. All we can reasonably do is sit back and wait for the background rolls to succeed.
I think this is an unfair characterization of the thread. A lot of the big research projects that the thread wants to tackle are things other people can't do:We could just hand out our research projects if people wanted that.
But we won't, because we want the favour for ourselves.
- Divine magic research is a consequence of our Avatar trait and our close relationship with a god who is pretty relaxed on the subject
- Windherder is a function of a skill we have
- The Tongs hypothesis is only a viable research topic at all because of our incredible Windsight, our knowledge of the techniques of indirect Wind manipulation from reading the Liber Mortis, and our Dharproof belt
- We own the only source of AV, and the experiments that are left to do are mostly contingent on our unique skills:
Like, I agree with you that the thread does tend to hoard things, but our AP crunch from research ideas can't be alleviated just by sharing. We manage to research a lot of physical artifacts, though, because those are easily done with our Gold and Duckling half-actions.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Don't tell that to Dawi Zhar.
We could just hand out our research projects if people wanted that.
But we won't, because we want the favour for ourselves.
Well yes, that is the point, get and institute to have the discoveries and their favor be in Mathilde's name so she can reap the benefits.
- Location
- Australia
