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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Actually where is the Stirland League located? Which update has the information?

EDIT:
Oh it covers the North-South trade between Talabecland and Averland. So not a competitive route then. What were they doing, ramping up the tariffs?
 
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I should never have revealed to my IRC chums that I read this quest, now I'm obliged to participate.

[X] Plan Turn This Castle Upside Down And Shake It
 
HanEmpire said:
Actually where is the Stirland League located? Which update has the information?

EDIT:
Oh it covers the North-South trade between Talabecland and Averland. So not a competitive route then.
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Turn 1 results, where we learn a poor bastard caught the "fall down stair covered in stab wounds" diease. We should probably take notes from that. :V Carrying small knifes just in case, and a nice vest of hardened leather.

Also, @BoneyM how much money and action point for setting up/take over taverns for our operation?
 
HanEmpire said:
Oh it covers the North-South trade between Talabecland and Averland. So not a competitive route then. What were they doing, ramping up the tariffs?
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They enforce a ruthless monopoly on trade and charge outrageous prices for goods flowing through. Averland is the gateway to the Border Princes, Tilea, and the Dwarfholds, as well containing the largest cattle markets in the Empire.

VoidZero said:
Also, @BoneyM how much money and action point for setting up/take over taverns for our operation?
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From the FAQ:

Vague estimates: You could start selling beer out of a shack in the slums for about forty gold, including the beer. Setting up a tavern along a trade road would only cost you what it takes to build it because you could get the land for a song, maybe 200 gold or so. A moderate size middle class tavern could run you 400. An established tavern of good repute on Wurtbad's main road could run you a thousand.
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This is something you could get the veterans to do, so you could bypass action expenditure that way.
Adhoc vote count started by BoneyM on Feb 2, 2018 at 8:09 PM, finished with 309 posts and 38 votes.
  • [x] Plan Turn This Castle Upside Down And Shake It
    -[x] Examine closely the corpse of the slain infiltrator, trying to determine the cause of their abilities.
    --[x] Van Hal assists
    --[x] Overwork
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    -[x] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone.
    --[x] The Morrites are a key part of the defense against Sylvania and care for Stirland. They can likely suggest one of their own, or if that's not politically feasible, they could at least provide a recommendation as to a Sigmarite who they know that they and Stirland's other cults can work with well.
    -[x] Van Hal is having a crisis of faith, but as someone whose religion demands that she not talk about her religion, you don't think you can help. See if you can convince Wilhelmina to talk him through this. (no action)
    -[x] Mention to Van Hal that you heard from your master in Altdorf that Schultz was the concession that brought Talabecland's vote. You have no reason to suspect his commitment to his role in Stirland, but it appears that Talabecland interests wanted him here. (no action)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    --[x] Assign one to each of Drebkau and Langwald with orders to move in, build contacts, and send us reports regularly on recent events with an emphasis on anything unusual or suspicious. Veterans who have already retired into those locations or intend to do so anyway would be ideal.
    --[x] Assign one to keep an eye on opinions in the military. Put an emphasis on the new Marshal for now, from his staff if they can manage it.
    --[x] Assign one to keep in close contact with the Wurtbad Watch and personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[x] Hire a scribe to ensure that they are literate and numerate enough to send regular legible reports. (-15g discretionary)
    -[x] Van Hal recommended asking Anton about sons and daughters of nobles to use as assistants. They're likely to be well-educated and politically savvy, but their loyalties would be to their family and they may be undisciplined. Line up some interviews and see how it goes.
    --[x] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Report on Gustav based upon the previous investigation, anything learned from initially meeting him and asking some general questions about his background and plans, and whatever the new hires turn up before the deadline. (no action)
    --[x] Pass anything new to Van Hal, as well. (no action)
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-discretionary gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    -[x] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano.
    [X] Plan Solid Core
    -[X] As Per Orders: Perform your current assignment. Choose ONE to have Van Hal's assistance with.
    --[X] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    ---[X] Van Halp
    --[X] Trace their actions inside the castle, investigate every facet of what they did and see if there's a way they somehow could have sabotaged something.
    --[X] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    --[X] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    ---[X] Overwork
    -[X] Influencing Van Hal: You're going to be spending time with him anyway, that's a lot of time to talk. Choose up to ONE. If 'Sucking Up To The Boss' is chosen, choose up to TWO.
    --[X] He's seriously considering getting rid of Kasmir. Spend some time with him and suggest a specific approach, or try to talk him out of it. (write in approach and reasons)
    ---[X] Approach: You'd suggest to avoid doing anything as extreme as to the late Marshal, as that would ensure that the clergy of Stirland and the general Church of Sigmar would go from passive interference to active disruption. Which leaves three ways:
    ----[X] Rehabilitation: Approach it as a strategic exercise for Kasmir, that he cannot effectively convert the residents of Stirland back to Sigmar's will if he does not know the opposition. Challenge Kasmir to find out what needs are met by Morr, Ulric and Shallya which Sigmar's servants have not been meeting, then meet them. More importantly, find out how to tell apart those who are of different faiths, from those who are loyal to abominations unto Sigmar, of the vampires and necromancers that blight the world, take examples from Sigmar's own trials under each god to gain their blessing and how his own priests should emulate their god in uniting the gods of Man against the forces of Night. There's nothing to be lost but time and possibly patience from trying this approach first.
    ----[X] Provocation: Appoint influential local priests of Morr, Shallya, Rhya, Ulric, and maybe even Handrich, Myrmidia and whatever the halflings follow as Kasmir's advisory council, in addition to a local Sigmarite priest. Either he'd learn to work with the other faiths, achieving the objective without having to cross the Grand Theogonist, or Kasmir would be goaded into doing something unfortunate to his advisory council, in which case you'd be able to fire Kasmir for criminal action. Bonus if you can make sure that said priests come from noble backgrounds so as to make the resultant mess as hard to sweep away as possible.
    ----[X] Sabotage: You're hesitant to suggest this, but it would be possible to plant evidence in Kasmir's rooms that he's been working with the contents of the East Wing in secret. Which would give Van Hal the justification to execute him if successful. The problem is that given the way such things work, its all too easy for a lie to become reality and you'd really rather not touch any of it yourself.
    ----[X] You'd recommend trying to rehabilitate him before going with the the provocation approach, since it SHOULD be useful even if it fails, and theres really nothing stopping the Grand Theogonist from sending endless and increasingly worse lines of zealots as he removes each one. The best course of action is one which makes Kasmir an asset, as the Grand Theogonist cannot replace him or censure us if we change Kasmir's mind on things.
    -[X] Backtracking and Side Operations:
    --[X] Okay. A report on the new Martial. Follow them around for a while, see what you can find out about them. (NEW)
    ---[X] Van Hal gets a copy as well.
    --[X] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. (NEW)
    ---[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each) (NEW)
    --[X] Get five.
    ---[X] Assign one to Bidenhof, Tarshof and Julbach each. Preferably someone who comes from those villages. Their job is to keep you up to date with the village rumors and point out what's just local custom, and whats unusual for those villages, as well as to acquire more gossips/informants from the village outlying farms in their own time.
    ---[X] Assign one to keep in touch with Swartzhafen, preferably someone who knows the Commander there.
    ---[X] Assign one to summing up the Wurtbad Watch's reports and to personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[X] Pay for them to be taught literacy, and basic sums if necessary. Check if they have any useful side skills. Assign to other tasks if they do.
    --[X] You'll get someone more educated(and no doubt, more expensive) from Anton later to manage what these guys churn out, but for now their job is to expand the not-at-all subtle informants and save your ass from riding up and down the country all year.
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed) (NEW)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    -[X] Research:
    --[X] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano. (NEW)
    -[x] Mention to van Hal that you heard from your master in Altdorf that Schultz was the concession that brought Talabeclands vote. You have no reason to suspect Schultzs' commitment to his role in Stirland, but it appears that Talabecland interests wanted him here.
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Guile said:
If you bring up the idea that our secret master is a vampire or Chaos cultist, then I'm going to assume that you believe he's a vampire or Chaos cultist.

We have no confirmation our master is in the Grey Order, except for the fact that only the Patriarch of the Grey Order or the Emperor could give our magister this order to give to us.

If the Patriarch of the Grey Order turns out to be a fucking Chaos cultist, then the Grey Order has more problems than coming after us for serving a Chaos cultist.

They would all be serving the same Chaos cultist.
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You're assuming that the orders are from a legitimate authority. We've had this very discussion before. TLDR; people are only human, even in Warhammer.
 
Heretek said:
You're assuming that the orders are from a legitimate authority. We've had this very discussion before. TLDR; people are only human, even in Warhammer.
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We know the orders are coming from a guy who our master accepts as being able to give us secret orders, and can set the Grey Order on us for the crime of 'not following the secret orders.'

The only way they're not coming from a legitimate authority is if the Grey Order is pod people.
 
Guile said:
We know the orders are coming from a guy who our master accepts as being able to give us secret orders, and can set the Grey Order on us for the crime of 'not following the secret orders.'

The only way they're not coming from a legitimate authority is if the Grey Order is pod people.
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We know that the orders are coming from someone our master accepts as holding leverage of some kind above him and that he has stated that we would be declared rogue. That leverage doesn't need to be legal or official in any way, and that threat does not have to be true.
 
BoneyM said:
They enforce a ruthless monopoly on trade and charge outrageous prices for goods flowing through. Averland is the gateway to the Border Princes, Tilea, and the Dwarfholds, as well containing the largest cattle markets in the Empire.
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Bloody idiots. Looks like championing Free(r) Trade is going on the list.
The folks over in Nuln must be happy though. Lots of barges will be going their way.
 
The thing with our backer is that NOT investigating them is basically plugging our ears and pretending they don't exist like we've been doing with the Asp. They do exist. They make demands of us that have to be fulfilled immediately and at action tight times.

They are also not going to burn a well placed and (so far) obedient agent for trying to find out who's up the line from them.

Most likely worst case scenario for such an investigation failing is being Mindholed by the next link in the chain.

Most likely result of a non critical success on investigation is simply a direction. A town, city or province.

Because its exceedingly unlikely that anyone who can call on the Grey Order like that would rely on a trackable single messenger.

But at the same time our risk of crossing them increases over time as operations expand if we don't know their agenda. A spy knowing the agenda of their backer is simple self preservation.

Spies which don't have any clues on who's up the line are by contrast, merely an opportunity cost to sacrifice. They have no reverse leverage to protect themselves

E: as for the whole sabotage thing, its giving him the option and telling him why its a bad option. Which helps prevent Van Hal giving bad orders if he knows why we think its bad.
Namely, that even if he HAS Kasmir replacements the GT will give him no end of pain there.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by TotallyNotEvil on Feb 2, 2018 at 9:18 PM, finished with 311 posts and 38 votes.
  • [x] Plan Turn This Castle Upside Down And Shake It
    -[x] Examine closely the corpse of the slain infiltrator, trying to determine the cause of their abilities.
    --[x] Van Hal assists
    --[x] Overwork
    -[x] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    -[x] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    -[x] Closely interrogate every remaining servant.
    -[x] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    -[x] If Kasmir is to be removed, he'll need replacing. Suggest somewhere that Van Hal could look to find someone.
    --[x] The Morrites are a key part of the defense against Sylvania and care for Stirland. They can likely suggest one of their own, or if that's not politically feasible, they could at least provide a recommendation as to a Sigmarite who they know that they and Stirland's other cults can work with well.
    -[x] Van Hal is having a crisis of faith, but as someone whose religion demands that she not talk about her religion, you don't think you can help. See if you can convince Wilhelmina to talk him through this. (no action)
    -[x] Mention to Van Hal that you heard from your master in Altdorf that Schultz was the concession that brought Talabecland's vote. You have no reason to suspect his commitment to his role in Stirland, but it appears that Talabecland interests wanted him here. (no action)
    -[x] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each)
    --[x] Assign one to each of Drebkau and Langwald with orders to move in, build contacts, and send us reports regularly on recent events with an emphasis on anything unusual or suspicious. Veterans who have already retired into those locations or intend to do so anyway would be ideal.
    --[x] Assign one to keep an eye on opinions in the military. Put an emphasis on the new Marshal for now, from his staff if they can manage it.
    --[x] Assign one to keep in close contact with the Wurtbad Watch and personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[x] Hire a scribe to ensure that they are literate and numerate enough to send regular legible reports. (-15g discretionary)
    -[x] Van Hal recommended asking Anton about sons and daughters of nobles to use as assistants. They're likely to be well-educated and politically savvy, but their loyalties would be to their family and they may be undisciplined. Line up some interviews and see how it goes.
    --[x] Ranald's Blessing
    -[x] Report on Gustav based upon the previous investigation, anything learned from initially meeting him and asking some general questions about his background and plans, and whatever the new hires turn up before the deadline. (no action)
    --[x] Pass anything new to Van Hal, as well. (no action)
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    -[x] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[x] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-discretionary gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    -[x] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano.
    [X] Plan Solid Core
    -[X] As Per Orders: Perform your current assignment. Choose ONE to have Van Hal's assistance with.
    --[X] Examine and interrogate the imprisoned infiltrator.
    ---[X] Van Halp
    --[X] Trace their actions inside the castle, investigate every facet of what they did and see if there's a way they somehow could have sabotaged something.
    --[X] Walk back their movements, see whether they left the castle and if so, what they were doing.
    --[X] Go out to the nearby villages and confirm the details of every single servant claiming to be from there.
    ---[X] Overwork
    -[X] Influencing Van Hal: You're going to be spending time with him anyway, that's a lot of time to talk. Choose up to ONE. If 'Sucking Up To The Boss' is chosen, choose up to TWO.
    --[X] He's seriously considering getting rid of Kasmir. Spend some time with him and suggest a specific approach, or try to talk him out of it. (write in approach and reasons)
    ---[X] Approach: You'd suggest to avoid doing anything as extreme as to the late Marshal, as that would ensure that the clergy of Stirland and the general Church of Sigmar would go from passive interference to active disruption. Which leaves three ways:
    ----[X] Rehabilitation: Approach it as a strategic exercise for Kasmir, that he cannot effectively convert the residents of Stirland back to Sigmar's will if he does not know the opposition. Challenge Kasmir to find out what needs are met by Morr, Ulric and Shallya which Sigmar's servants have not been meeting, then meet them. More importantly, find out how to tell apart those who are of different faiths, from those who are loyal to abominations unto Sigmar, of the vampires and necromancers that blight the world, take examples from Sigmar's own trials under each god to gain their blessing and how his own priests should emulate their god in uniting the gods of Man against the forces of Night. There's nothing to be lost but time and possibly patience from trying this approach first.
    ----[X] Provocation: Appoint influential local priests of Morr, Shallya, Rhya, Ulric, and maybe even Handrich, Myrmidia and whatever the halflings follow as Kasmir's advisory council, in addition to a local Sigmarite priest. Either he'd learn to work with the other faiths, achieving the objective without having to cross the Grand Theogonist, or Kasmir would be goaded into doing something unfortunate to his advisory council, in which case you'd be able to fire Kasmir for criminal action. Bonus if you can make sure that said priests come from noble backgrounds so as to make the resultant mess as hard to sweep away as possible.
    ----[X] Sabotage: You're hesitant to suggest this, but it would be possible to plant evidence in Kasmir's rooms that he's been working with the contents of the East Wing in secret. Which would give Van Hal the justification to execute him if successful. The problem is that given the way such things work, its all too easy for a lie to become reality and you'd really rather not touch any of it yourself.
    ----[X] You'd recommend trying to rehabilitate him before going with the the provocation approach, since it SHOULD be useful even if it fails, and theres really nothing stopping the Grand Theogonist from sending endless and increasingly worse lines of zealots as he removes each one. The best course of action is one which makes Kasmir an asset, as the Grand Theogonist cannot replace him or censure us if we change Kasmir's mind on things.
    -[X] Backtracking and Side Operations:
    --[X] Okay. A report on the new Martial. Follow them around for a while, see what you can find out about them. (NEW)
    ---[X] Van Hal gets a copy as well.
    --[X] Try to tail the messenger who you give the report to. (NEW)
    ---[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Van Hal can get you veterans of the Army of Stirland - mostly uneducated and suspicious of magic, but unquestionably loyal to Stirland. (no action required, -10g discretionary/turn each) (NEW)
    --[X] Get five.
    ---[X] Assign one to Bidenhof, Tarshof and Julbach each. Preferably someone who comes from those villages. Their job is to keep you up to date with the village rumors and point out what's just local custom, and whats unusual for those villages, as well as to acquire more gossips/informants from the village outlying farms in their own time.
    ---[X] Assign one to keep in touch with Swartzhafen, preferably someone who knows the Commander there.
    ---[X] Assign one to summing up the Wurtbad Watch's reports and to personally get to know the Watchmen.
    --[X] Pay for them to be taught literacy, and basic sums if necessary. Check if they have any useful side skills. Assign to other tasks if they do.
    --[X] You'll get someone more educated(and no doubt, more expensive) from Anton later to manage what these guys churn out, but for now their job is to expand the not-at-all subtle informants and save your ass from riding up and down the country all year.
    -[X] Home Comforts: Your Palace-Shrine is bursting with potential. And also mud.
    --[X] Wardrobe Expansion: Start wearing a tunic and breeches under your wizard's robes. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Outsourced: Pay someone to do the digging, then Mindhole them on their way out. (no action required, -personal gold)
    --[X] Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but you could always try again with local goods. (-personal gold, action required to set up and learn to use equipment, action expenditure can be postponed) (NEW)
    ---[X] Postpone action. Just buy the stuff first.
    -[X] Research:
    --[X] That damn Asp has still been quiet, but now you've got a lead. Peruse the book Light And It's Properties, by Leonardo da Miragliano. (NEW)
    -[x] Mention to van Hal that you heard from your master in Altdorf that Schultz was the concession that brought Talabeclands vote. You have no reason to suspect Schultzs' commitment to his role in Stirland, but it appears that Talabecland interests wanted him here.
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TotallyNotEvil said:
As long as the information they ask is essentially harmless?

I'm cool with waiting and preparing. Maybe until when we aren't a level 0 wizard.
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The thing is we don't know shit. And by ignoring it, we are going to be less able to prepare to deal with their agenda.

Currently they asked for intel on Chancellor and now Marshal. It looks a lot like they're trying to map the council loyalties?
 
How do we know that they aren't using the information were giving them in a potentially problematic manner?

Not that they probably are, what's probably happening is they are using these 'innocent'requests to see just how far they can push us. And if we keep doing nothing except what they demand of us, then they're going to go ahead and demand things of us that ARE a problem, because we're doing nothing to show that we won't do anything they demand just in case they can cause a problem for us.

However, if we at least show that we're trying to find out who they are, or what problems they can cause us...

Well, worse case we find out just what problems they can cause us, but in a non-fatal\permanent manner.

Because we have shown we will comply, so they're not going to burn the asset we represent as well as all the costs spent to put us into place, when we're not actaully a threat to them or what they're doing.

Better case is we get a lead on how they threaten us, allowing us to start figuring out just what they can TRUELY threaten us with. Best case is we actually figure it out and get a lead on how to disarm the threat to us, or counter it with our own threat.

But seriously guys, they aren't just going to burn all the effort spent to get us in place and reporting at the first problem. Instead they're going to try to fix the problem (revealing the potentially empty threat isn't empty without using it in a permanent fashion) and if they can't fix it, they'll see if they can still get any use out of us.

It's once they decide that they can't fix the problems we cause, and those problems cost more than keeping us gains that we're in big trouble.

Which requires us to be more of a problem than following a messenger, which can be solved rather cheaply, and easily. Hell, they may decide to use that problem to solve another by having the messenger lead us to someone that's been causing problems for them, so that we can eradicate the problematic person/group for our hidden master.
 
[X] Plan Solid Core

I dislike that we'd be going after our backers so soon, but the way this plan handles the Kasmir situation is just plain better.
 
Or the hidden master is the Emperor or a leader in the Grey Order who want to keep track of a new elector count see the thing is we don't know who we work for yet and we can't really decide to do anything if we don't know who it is

[X] Plan Solid Core
 
veekie said:
They are also not going to burn a well placed and (so far) obedient agent for trying to find out who's up the line from them.
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They had no problem putting one Grey College journeyman mage into the position. They will have no problem putting another, either. And another after that, until their tools learn to stop asking questions.

Okay, as the protagonist of a Quest that probably won't happen.

But just assuming that some shadowy spymaster high up in the Grey College (that's the College that executes more of its own people than any other, remember, for infractions like 'wanted to own something nice for themselves') will go gentle on their tool when it is trying to turn and bite the hand wielding it is stupid.
 
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Siual said:
[X] Plan Solid Core

I dislike that we'd be going after our backers so soon, but the way this plan handles the Kasmir situation is just plain better.
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Do you simply believe that the topic of "give suggestions for handling Kasmir" is flatly superior to "suggest ways to get an acceptable replacement for Kasmir", or do you have issues with the specific implementation of the latter? The two plans aren't actually opposed in any way on the Kasmir topic because they prioritize talking about different parts of it and we only have one conversation allowed.


 
I advise against suggesting to the boss about the sabotage action, it will make Val Halen see that Mathilda is willing to commit murder, kick the dog or go that far to get what she wants. Which will affect his impression of her as a person.

Its better to give him a inpression of a fairly good natured quirky girl, who is hypercompetent, and compassionate good person, who shows mercy, which makes her trustworthy, compare to conspiring to put a colleague to death to make things convenient. In fact, if Mathilda will play a role in vanquishing enemies, she should get a say on who lives and dies, who gets shown mercy ir not. Maybe she could suggest imprisonment for the infiltrators and leniency if they cooperate and re incapacitated as a threat.


Maybe if Kashmir is truly a evil person who commits atrocities and need to be stop, but he is relatively innocent whose crime is a being stubborn, a zealot and misguided, with low social skills.
 
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Guile said:
They had no problem putting one Grey College journeyman mage into the position. They will have no problem putting another, either. And another after that, until their tools learn to stop asking questions.
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They actually might have a problem with that.

We got forced into this position as a group concession by the people in charge and was the only way Van Hal would get the job, but, um, Van Hal already has the position, that can't just be taken back all casual like.

So, his trusted Intrigue advisor just died, what does he do? Well he might have approached the Grey Wizards for help seeing how well we did, but, as seen by most of his other advisors betraying him, he can't exactly trust other groups, and he is paranoid so that goes double. He'd want to hire someone he knows and trusts.

Good thing he was a Witch Hunter and there are plenty of Intrigue focused Witch Hunters out there, he'll have literally no problem finding a replacement that he personally trusts.

Yeah, if I was the Grey Wizards I'd be real nervous about my chances of replacing us with another Grey Wizard Intrigue Advisor.
 
King Arthur said:
They actually might have a problem with that.

We got forced into this position as a group concession by the people in charge and was the only way Van Hal would get the job, but, um, Van Hal already has the position, that can't just be taken back all casual like.

So, his trusted Intrigue advisor just died, what does he do? Well he might have approached the Grey Wizards for help seeing how well we did, but, as seen by most of his other advisors betraying him, he can't exactly trust other groups, and he is paranoid so that goes double. He'd want to hire someone he knows and trusts.

Good thing he was a Witch Hunter and there are plenty of Intrigue focused Witch Hunters out there, he'll have literally no problem finding a replacement that he personally trusts.

Yeah, if I was the Grey Wizards I'd be real nervous about my chances of replacing us with another Grey Wizard Intrigue Advisor.
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Note that the Grand Theologist and the Emperor are both able to replace their guys. The hypothetical Grey Wizard Patriarch should be able to do so as well.
 
notanautomaton said:
Note that the Grand Theologist and the Emperor are both able to replace their guys. The hypothetical Grey Wizard Patriarch should be able to do so as well.
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We haven't seen the Grand Theologist replace anything yet, no one has been fired, and Van Hal want's to not piss of the Theogenist too badly so he might be willing to grant him a second chance but I don't think anything's stopping him from approaching a Morrite if he desires to.

As to the martial advisor, well, yeah, Van Hal doesn't know people who can command armies. Witch Hutner's act on a much smaller scale than that. There isn't really another source of generals for him to tap.
 
Guile said:
They had no problem putting one Grey College journeyman mage into the position. They will have no problem putting another, either. And another after that, until their tools learn to stop asking questions.

Okay, as the protagonist of a Quest that probably won't happen.

But just assuming that some shadowy spymaster high up in the Grey College (that's the College that executes more of its own people than any other, remember, for infractions like 'wanted to own something nice for themselves') will go gentle on their tool when it is trying to turn and bite the hand wielding it is stupid.
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Because replacing the spymaster of a province is not something they can force on Van Hal. This is one avenue he COULD simply replace by picking one of his old Witch Hunter buddies. If they burn us they lose the spot entirely.

Ergo, not going to happen unless we actually start acting AGAINST them. Sniffing up the line is not acting against them. It'd be stranger NOT to have it
Saotome Nakazawa said:
I advise against suggesting to the boss about the sabotage action, it will make Val Halen see that Mathilda is willing to commit murder, kick the dog or go that far to get what she wants. Which will affect his impression of her as a person.

Its better to give him a inpression of a fairly good natured quirky girl, who is hypercompetent, and compassionate good person, who shows mercy, which makes her trustworthy, compare to conspiring to put a colleague to death to make things convenient. In fact, if Mathilda will play a role in vanquishing enemies, she should get a say on who lives and dies, who gets shown mercy ir not. Maybe she could suggest imprisonment for the infiltrators and leniency if they cooperate and re incapacitated as a threat.


Maybe if Kashmir is truly a evil person who commits atrocities and need to be stop, but he is relatively innocent whose crime is a being stubborn, a zealot and misguided, with low social skills.
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Eh, I can cut this bit since it seems its a major sticking point and its not like its actually IMPORTANT.
Anyone else who actually WANTS us to give Van Hal his options, our opinion on the options and then trust him to make the right decisions?
 
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