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You know, random thought, but given the hints that the Border Princes position would be supported by dwarves for the purpose of a dwarf having control of it—namely Mathilde—I wonder if she would theoretically end up as a Queen as well as a Princess. Like, would they treat her lands as another hold?
 
Swamp Town: give up on all our friends and connections, the choice. I guess if we get really tired of Dwarfs?
Leaving for a few years isn't leaving them forever, and we can always write letters.

So from my point of view the border princes would be utterly trivial to conquer. I know, hubris, but we'll have dwarven support from at least two Karaks, and while they won't provide troops a reasonable mercenary group + Dwarven weapons + Mathilde would scare most of the border princes in line without much contest.

That is, unfortunately, the easy part. Actually getting the place into a stable situation, clearing out the beastmen and greenskins within the immediate area, figuring out how to economy, and then, finally, figuring out how to make sure the whole thing doesn't fall apart the moment we're gone for five minutes.
I think the Mad Dog Guard option is pretty boring and being overvalued because people forget that being anywhere in the Empire makes popping over to K8P approximately as easy as going from there because Mathilde can travel very fast... but it's explicitly talking about that much more defensible pass, and not the nigh-indefensible border princes area.
 
The problem is, ultimately, that's a long time: and Boeny is already hinting that they would not mind writing somewhere new.

as a tabletop GM: sometimes what is still fun for the players, is not for the GM. and the GM is more important.

BoneyM has already said 'we are moving on when I get bord, deal with it' post-Striland.

I expect the same at some point in K8Ps, even if stay wins this time.
But boney has confirmed that the thing that will need to change is our job, not the place where we live...

If we decide to become the Magical Troubleshooter of the Karaz Ankor, or similar options that involve keep working with the Dwarfs I don´t think that there will be any problem at all to keep living there...
 
I wonder, if we become the High Priestess of Ranald, could we skew the politics of Marienburg in the Empire's favor? Set up divinely mandated smugglibg rings and screw with Marienburg's river tolls, as a way to steal from the rich to protect the poor Imperials.
 
I wonder, if we become the High Priestess of Ranald, could we skew the politics of Marienburg in the Empire's favor? Set up divinely mandated smugglibg rings and screw with Marienburg's river tolls, as a way to steal from the rich to protect the poor Imperials.
If we do that, we help Handrich push Ranald out of Marienburg.
 
I wonder, if we become the High Priestess of Ranald, could we skew the politics of Marienburg in the Empire's favor? Set up divinely mandated smugglibg rings and screw with Marienburg's river tolls, as a way to steal from the rich to protect the poor Imperials.
That sounds like a mess I want nothing to do with.
 
I wonder, if we become the High Priestess of Ranald, could we skew the politics of Marienburg in the Empire's favor? Set up divinely mandated smugglibg rings and screw with Marienburg's river tolls, as a way to steal from the rich to protect the poor Imperials.

I don't think Ranaldites deal too well with divine mandates.

It is, after all, herding cats. :V
 
All of those other then Swamp Town sound amazing. High Priest of Ranald and Border Princess (cause there is some interesting canon stuff around Mad Dog pass that I'd love to see Boney's take on) in particular. However, words cannot describe how tiny my interesting in playing settler-colonist is.
 
Aside from anything else, the Ranald option has us spending most of our time working in Kislev, which isn't exactly the most convenient place to go rabble-rousing in Marienburg from.
 
We'd be setting up shop close to Karak Eight Peaks, which I know is a draw for some people, and fortifying a valley that traders are going through, almost certainly alongside the White Wolves. This would be another CK2 route, with closer dwarven ties.

Yeah, something people are overlooking with the border princes idea is that we aren't trying to take or hold the open plains. We're supposed to fortify a pass in the mountains and near the river. That's much more defensible terrain.

I much prefer Mathilde to be someone who fights against monsters. Someone who beats back the darkness and protects the light of civilisation. Who does not need to question the morality of her cause.
Uh, Grey Wizard. Kind of too late for that.
Who is allowed and encouraged to hit her opposition with a sword.
Again, Grey Wizard. That comes baked in.

We have the coin, in particular the protector, why does that matter. Well unlike possibly every other human on the planet we have a way to signal to the Slaan that we want to help. It will likely cost the lives of many Skaven, but I think Mathy can bear the burden
This... Is probably true. And we've seen in Vlag that it can communicate supernaturally directly to people, no rumor mill required.
If Star Wars has taught me anything, that only happens shortly before one of them dies. And one of them has become a Master of Evil.
We do have the Libre Mortis...
I wholly dislike your plan to replace a chunk of Mathilde's personality with ulgu.
Again, again, Grey Wizard. A chunk of our soul has already been permanently replaced with ulgu, and every time we get an arcane mark it happens again. That's just our lifestyle.
Guys, I am going to join @picklepikkl infructuous efforts, and try to remember you all that that THESE ARE ONLY A PART OF THE OPTIONS!!!
So please, calm your horses until Boney gives us the rest of the list, which I am willing to bet that will include several options to work directly with the Dwarfs, and probably even weirder options from other potential employers...
"Stop having fun."
Everyone knows. Trying to suppress discussion of these options does nothing but preserve the advantage of the ideas that the thread had previously thought of.
 
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Second, the bridge burning was never a certainty, just a result if we give him such an open ended opportunity such as the Pilgrimage of Fingers (where we basically say we'll steal anything you want 8 times). In contrast, being a High Priest to solve the Kislev problem is quite different.
Adding onto this, a large part of our job as High Priest would be maintaining a good reputation and relationship with the various factions. Burning bridges with the Empire would be actively detrimental to our job, and so Ranald wouldn't do it because that would screw himself over.

Probably.
 
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Again, again, Grey Wizard. A chunk of our soul has already been permanently replaced with ulgu, and every time we get an arcane market happens again. That's just our lifestyle.
That it's happening doesn't mean we should accelerate the process. I mean come on man, this is so similar to something else; everyone will die eventually, but it's not good or even neutral to accelerate people's deaths.
 
People have been mentioning conquering and figuring out how to defend Border princes, but that is not what that job is about at all.
The dwarves just want someone to help deal with pirates and to better protect trade routes.

Ruprecht the Younger has already told Mathilde about it, and he is interested in Winter wolves taking that position.

In recent years, piracy, sabotage, and border skirmishes in the Border Princes region has shown that Dwarven dominance over the area is required to guarantee the safe flow of trade. King Byrrnoth Grundadrakk of Barak Varr wishes to make you aware that support would be available should an Umgi of proven trustworthiness seek dominion over the territories of the western end of Mad Dog Pass, near the banks of the Howling River. He also extends the observation that the Lady Magister is of proven trustworthiness.
"We might," he says. "There's been rumblings from Barak Varr about Mad Dog Pass - it's the last of the southern passes that isn't controlled by the Dwarves, so it's the destination of choice for those that would rather take their chances than pay the Dwarves their cut. But that much wealth attracts the wrong sort of attention, and there's rumours of bandit-kingdoms along the Howling River. And it's a very small step from bandit to pirate, and Barak Varr definitely doesn't like that sort of thing. It was just talk when we left, but after Karak Vlag I've been thinking about it a lot."

You frown, consulting a mental map. "With Karak Vlag back, Mad Dog Pass would be the only overland route to the east outside of Dwarven control."

"And they last had that level of control, I've heard, before the birth of the Empire."

"Long before," you say with a nod. "Karak Norn was founded by the Clans that once watched over the Silver Road and Mad Dog Pass."

"And that could be where the Winter Wolves fit in. Mad Dog Pass is the only Pass without a major Dwarfhold on it. Seems better suited to being watched over by cavalry than by Dwarves on foot."

"That would put you in close proximity with Night Goblins and Forest Goblins. There's your unpredictable foes."

"Bloody Spear and Black Spider tribes," he says, nodding. "That way we have a chance to still be Knights in a few generations, rather than monks with puppies or feudal lords with pretensions."

"You wouldn't be the only ones to benefit. If the Dwarves took a cut of every caravan from Ind and Cathay... well, even Dwarven vaults would be swelled by that." You consider that for a moment, then turn the conversation back to the original topic. "Have any of the Knights been troubled by the battle? Not so much by their performance, but from the influence of the Daemons?"
 
I mean, Wolf's technically a part of us, can talk if necessary, and likes kids more than Mathilde with a fair experience in raising them. It makes a fair amount of sense. :V
Plus, would definitely improve the Ulrican opinion of Mandred. With us and Heidi getting him in good with Ranald and Shallya the Sigmarites would have to do a lot of favors for him just to keep up, or risk losing influence with the next probably Emperor entirely.

Good route to probable Order Everchosen Mandred.
 
Ah, but how many of those involve securing the most vulnerable part of the canal's waterway against Marienburg being stupid?
...None? We have literally no offers pertaining to that. Every "build a fiefdom" offer we've gotten is off the canal's waterway.
I'd argue giving the Empire more protection from any Waaaghs along with securing trade routes is worth far more than taking some random area of land in the empire and making it more productive.
The position being offered does not directly block the access of any prospective Waaaghs to the Empire. They might attack us on the way if it looks like fun, sure. Which... if they're large enough of a Waaagh to potentially be able to punch through the defenses on Black Fire Pass that have been built up over generations by a well-established full Elector County that has had access to both dwarves and wizards for commissions when desired (and can potentially call on the rest of the Empire for backup if necessary), means they could roll over anything we could plausibly build like it's no more than a minor speedbump. Which is, historically, exactly what happens to anything of substance that gets built in the Border Princes in between Waaaghs. Which is the main reason nobody with power is particularly interested in trying to build anything in the Border Princes; they'd rather do any new building behind their fortifications rather than in front of them. Especially since the Border Princes have nothing of particular value in them, given that the farmland is mediocre at best and the mineral deposits are unexceptional levels of common materials.

We'd be able to make Mad Dog Pass more secure for trade as long as a Waaagh wasn't rolling through, but anything more than that is building castles in the sky.
Actually, that's kind of what I meant; Heidi's probably already been shaping Mandred's views quite a bit, and she has much more influence over him than Mathilde could. In the face of that, I think any additions or tweaks Mathilde could make would be relatively minor. Though admittedly, my opinion is probably a bit biased, considering I'm not interested in this option at all.
Maybe? But honestly, since literally neither of us is particularly interested in this one at present it feels a bit pointless to argue over this point any further, so I think I'll just drop it instead; hopefully that's alright by you.
I will point out that what is being offered is a bit of a different paradigm then what the usually Border Princedom is.

we will not be there to make a kingdom in the mud.

we are there to stomp out piracy and armed robbery and taxing/being paid dwarfs by to do so.

not having success tied to the land, but the trade routes, does make it a much more manageable task.

its not really nation-building as much as running a caravan protection raket/river-navy.
Yes, you're likely more or less correct. Which frankly only makes the option sound even more boring to me.

So far, for me nothing beats "help Belegar rejuvenate the Karaz Ankor" if he's interested in that project, or Waystones if he isn't. There are more (Wissenland, Kislev) and less (Border Princess) interesting options from the Empire, so it's not like I don't have preferences if one of them does win. But thus far my preference is for one of those two non-Empire (per se) options to win.
 
Just think of the shenanigans for Sylvania pt 2

Sylvania peasant: "Thats when I saw her that is. The Markgave, the dammerlictor. Riding a horse made of night and with her great wolf running by her side. What terrible creature she went to slay I have no idea, but I want no part that I don't. And neither do any right thinking folk!"

Mathildes journal: "So I went riding to Anton's for cake and I felt like Wolf needed to stretch his legs"
 
@BoneyM how suitable are the Border Princes for nomadic or semi-nomadic life? I know the usual permanent settlements don't work but I don't know how well or how badly nomadism would work.
 
No comment on the position itself, but the Coin Protector face would seem tailor-made for doing this thing specifically, especially as it can operate with constructed identities- 'Mathilde, High Priestess of Ranald did this'.
Actually, we could take the position of High Priestess under a cover identity, using the Protector side of the coin. It would give us a huge advantage in that our enemies won't expect us to be a Lord Magister, and it'll let us do other things without political baggage after we finish the job up in Kislev.

I'm really in favor of at least exploring the idea of taking the position under a cover identity. (Plus most High Priests of Ranald probably do operate under a cover identity, too. So we'd be fitting in with tradition there.)
On the other hand, one of Sigmar's greatest achievements in the eyes of the Karaz Ankor was building an empire that secured their border and remained a staunch ally for thousands of years, so if we want to get started on 1-upping that our best bet is probably becoming a Border Princess.

Hmm.
No. Still not at the 'save the High King and the Throne of Power, kill Nagash and an Everchosen, build a large and powerful Empire that allies with and halts the decline of the Karaz Ankor' tier.
If we want to be the next best thing since sliced bread Sigmar, it is the position that gives us the best chance of doing that. Securing at least part of the Border Princes region could create a new friendly territory that lasts for hundreds of years, and would help secure both K8P and Barak Varr.

BTW, I know a lot of people are against Empire Building since it could be similar to the more typical CK2 quest, but this wouldn't be that. We wouldn't be building the next global power-tier capital-E Empire. We'd be working with the sponsorship of far more powerful, wealthy, and populated dwarf kingdoms. Mathilde would be building effectively a client state, which is very much different from the norm. Less "conquor the entire Border Princes" and more "build a territory that keeps pirates and orcs away from us." Plus, I have to say I think BoneyM's writing style is just plain different from other CK2 quest runners; I really don't think if we chose one of the rulership options the quest would end up like, well, some CK2 quests that end up steamrolling all opposition through the momentum of ever-increasing stats and resources.
 
Leaving for a few years isn't leaving them forever, and we can always write letters.
At what point do you stop being Governor-General of a place that will never be secure and will never stop having problems to solve?

What's the end point of Swamp-Town? The only point where I can imagine it not needing us anymore is if the Colony is destroyed entirely or driven out.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or a contrarian here, I just .... this feels like a real long-term to permanent job to me. Like, more long-term than most of the others.
 
At what point do you stop being Governor-General of a place that will never be secure and will never stop having problems to solve?

What's the end point of Swamp-Town? The only point where I can imagine it not needing us anymore is if the Colony is destroyed entirely or driven out.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or a contrarian here, I just .... this feels like a real long-term to permanent job to me. Like, more long-term than most of the others.

Again, statements like this are assuming Boney's trying to lure us into a trap option.

I have every reason to believe the Lustria Arc would be fascinating, and probably the one with the greatest impact on the DEEP LORE of the setting.

I mean, hell can we at least find out what's going on with it so we can at least reject it with a clear conscience?
 
Plus, would definitely improve the Ulrican opinion of Mandred.

Maybe not.

"Interesting," he says at last, turning his gaze from the cocked head of a slightly uncomfortable Wolf. "All wolves are born of Ulric, but not all die of Ulric. This is perhaps the least bad reason for that, amongst a great many very bad reasons. Does he retain the nature of a wolf?"

The Ar-Ulric, at least, is very capable of recognizing that Wolf is not 'of Ulric' due to being a familiar.

Considering the usual Ulrican feelings on magic, this could decrease opinion among some sects.
 
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