Yeah, even a Skaven would be insane if they glowed with Dhar the same way Wizards glow with their Wind.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Yeah, even a Skaven would be insane if they glowed with Dhar the same way Wizards glow with their Wind.
- Location
- Austria
Yeah, the above is true.
We have a lot of cavalry as proportion of army, and every moment demons spend aboveground is a moment less they have to live.
So making a palisade between demons and closest pop center while harassing them en route with cavalry is a sensible combination. If they spill out into wilderness which is not en route to population, nobody really cares, cause they'll evaporate before they reach anything populated.
[x] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
We have a lot of cavalry as proportion of army, and every moment demons spend aboveground is a moment less they have to live.
So making a palisade between demons and closest pop center while harassing them en route with cavalry is a sensible combination. If they spill out into wilderness which is not en route to population, nobody really cares, cause they'll evaporate before they reach anything populated.
[x] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
@BoneyM
What are the views of Ruprecht and Joerg on options one and two? I notice that the more gung-ho one prefers having the wagons there while the more practical one seems to care about preserving them for the expedition proper.
Why does Borek prefer fortifying the gates (without wagons) over fortifying the road if the wagons aren't really exposed during the latter either?
How do you pronounce Joerg? Jo-erg or Jörg/Jørg?
What are the views of Ruprecht and Joerg on options one and two? I notice that the more gung-ho one prefers having the wagons there while the more practical one seems to care about preserving them for the expedition proper.
Why does Borek prefer fortifying the gates (without wagons) over fortifying the road if the wagons aren't really exposed during the latter either?
How do you pronounce Joerg? Jo-erg or Jörg/Jørg?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
Having some open road between us and the demons greatly increases the efficacy of our cavalry, which is a pretty substantial part of our forces. It also reduces the risk of fighting on multiple fronts, compared to being nestled right up against the entrance.
Having some open road between us and the demons greatly increases the efficacy of our cavalry, which is a pretty substantial part of our forces. It also reduces the risk of fighting on multiple fronts, compared to being nestled right up against the entrance.
Unless I'm misreading you, it seems like you just answered your own question.
Because he doesn't like a scenario where the daemons are between the Expedition and the path ahead.
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
@BoneyM Just to check, even in fortification of roads, Deathfang will be keeping watch at the Karak from air and/or launching attacks of opportunity if they slip out of alternative entrances, or does that need to be a write-in?
@BoneyM Just to check, even in fortification of roads, Deathfang will be keeping watch at the Karak from air and/or launching attacks of opportunity if they slip out of alternative entrances, or does that need to be a write-in?
This is for the broad scope only. The exact deployment of individuals is not being decided right now.
Why is he able to glow with Aqshy too though, is I think BurnNote's question?
If he's a wizard like the College Wizards (except he also uses dhar) then he should "only" be able to glow with Ulgu, right. But he's able to glow with Ulgu and a little Aqshy.
So... he's not a wizard quite like a human wizard is, then, is the conclusion. (Well that, or, it's a useful way to depict things and write things. Which I have to agree with actually, it's a cool way to depict emotions and thought processes, and it's a shame that it doesn't work for human wizards. =/)
... Not too surprising, really. After all, an Elf wizard for example would also presumably have multiple winds glowing around them. (And non-College Wizards would probably be a bit different from College Wizards, after all. ... Heck. Do we even know what Elementalists would be like, for comparison? They might be even different even while being humans! And even from the same Empire as College Wizards!)
And, since the problem with a human wizard glowing with non-native-Wind-only is dhar creation, this guy can glow with more than one wind; because he can take the slight Dhar contamination anyway, as he's (sort of) used to it?
Gradually transforming more and more of their soul into the Wind they are using is a method of spellcasting unique to humans and dragons.
- Location
- Brazil
I think people are forgetting that we have the equivalent of General Winter on our side, we need not do a thing for the daemons to lose.
So yes, fortifying those entrance provides us with a ready made chokepoint, so what? The point should not be how to fight. The point should be to minimize damage done by daemons and remove the giant backdoor into reality.
The worse case here is that the daemons pick the right direction and raze a distant Kislevite village. A tragedy, sure. But one that occurs damn near every day in the Empire, and instead of daemons it's beastmen.
The point of fortifying the road is that it not only gives time for them to heavily dissipate and weaken, we have decent odds of straight up not fighting them if they pick the wrong direction.
But better yet, why fight at all? Right now we are one of the strongest concentrations of cavalry forces in the world, with over two hundred highly elite monster cavalry, a bunch of wizards who can keep up including one that can Mystifying Miasma effectively at will and a freaking Dragon if shit goes sideways.
The failure state of the Harass Them option is some daemons making it past. Given that the villages should at the very least have some forewarning to fort up, even if some do make past they shouldn't raze the places to the ground or anything unless both we and the kislevites do a very poor job.
Let's not forget, if we meet them head on they will be literally fresh from the warp. The Balrog of Vlag, and odds are there is one, will be in position to shank even Deathfang, and whoever is on the way better make peace with their gods.
This isn't the final fight. There's no reason to give the daemons the chance to smash up the expedition while they are at their strongest.
Hell, from the simple fact that dum is still functional enough to be sending mana downstream means that the odds of it not being just a daemon infested hellhole just went up tremendously.
Why match strength against strength when we match our strength with their weakness? Do as we've always done and shamelessly leverage our strengths against their weaknesses.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
But this is fine too:
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
So yes, fortifying those entrance provides us with a ready made chokepoint, so what? The point should not be how to fight. The point should be to minimize damage done by daemons and remove the giant backdoor into reality.
The worse case here is that the daemons pick the right direction and raze a distant Kislevite village. A tragedy, sure. But one that occurs damn near every day in the Empire, and instead of daemons it's beastmen.
The point of fortifying the road is that it not only gives time for them to heavily dissipate and weaken, we have decent odds of straight up not fighting them if they pick the wrong direction.
But better yet, why fight at all? Right now we are one of the strongest concentrations of cavalry forces in the world, with over two hundred highly elite monster cavalry, a bunch of wizards who can keep up including one that can Mystifying Miasma effectively at will and a freaking Dragon if shit goes sideways.
The failure state of the Harass Them option is some daemons making it past. Given that the villages should at the very least have some forewarning to fort up, even if some do make past they shouldn't raze the places to the ground or anything unless both we and the kislevites do a very poor job.
Let's not forget, if we meet them head on they will be literally fresh from the warp. The Balrog of Vlag, and odds are there is one, will be in position to shank even Deathfang, and whoever is on the way better make peace with their gods.
This isn't the final fight. There's no reason to give the daemons the chance to smash up the expedition while they are at their strongest.
Hell, from the simple fact that dum is still functional enough to be sending mana downstream means that the odds of it not being just a daemon infested hellhole just went up tremendously.
Why match strength against strength when we match our strength with their weakness? Do as we've always done and shamelessly leverage our strengths against their weaknesses.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
But this is fine too:
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
The only mortals I could imagine to be that insane are Kurgan Shamans of Ghyranek.
By the way, does anyone remember what the Kurgan call the Sun and Mannslieb? I have a vague memory of this having been posted in the thread at some point, but that's about it.
I would have thought of them having reversed preferences. Using giant fortresses on wheels to retake the Karak right here seems more practical while proving that one can do it without that backup and saving the expedition leader's resources seems more gung-ho.
The gung-ho one wants to go all in, the practical one wants a fall-back point.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Because each village raised due to our lack of action (which the *cavalry commanders* think will happen in your option) is a moral faliure of epic proportions? I don't believe in leaving non-combatents to die if I can help it @TotallyNotEvil
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Send enough people to evacuate all people in any population centers as well as warn the Kislevites about a potential daemon invasion, if needed give them a insignia of Mathilde Weber or any symbol that links King Belegar or anything that symbolizes Karak 8 peaks involvment.
[x] Fortify the Karak entrance with the steam-wagons, use the fortifications as distraction or camouflage for the plan of emptying any nearby population centers, try talking and arguing loudly about abandoning the population centers, make it look convincing such as sacrificing the few for the many. Have a few fights break up to sell the deception. Be sure to remove as much food from wagons, in case a hasty retreat is needed.
[x] If possible, fortify a random area as a decoy Waystone, that may further divide the daemons.
[x] Consult dwarves on possible secret entrances, and do best to fortify against flanking of the entrance to prevent ambushes. Talk to the other wizards to see if anyone can specialize in locating secret entrances in mountain.
This plan gives allowances to help any surviving dwarves in the Karak, it also assumes that one day of travel won't weaken the Slaaneshi horde much, and may in fact give them time to group up on the road,
[x] Fortify the Karak entrance with the steam-wagons, use the fortifications as distraction or camouflage for the plan of emptying any nearby population centers, try talking and arguing loudly about abandoning the population centers, make it look convincing such as sacrificing the few for the many. Have a few fights break up to sell the deception. Be sure to remove as much food from wagons, in case a hasty retreat is needed.
[x] If possible, fortify a random area as a decoy Waystone, that may further divide the daemons.
[x] Consult dwarves on possible secret entrances, and do best to fortify against flanking of the entrance to prevent ambushes. Talk to the other wizards to see if anyone can specialize in locating secret entrances in mountain.
This plan gives allowances to help any surviving dwarves in the Karak, it also assumes that one day of travel won't weaken the Slaaneshi horde much, and may in fact give them time to group up on the road,
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- Location
- Austria
Then fort up somewhere en route to those villages. And warn them to evac for a bit, maybe, they're Kislevites, they are used to having to evac cause Chaos Wastes acted up.
Aha, that's interesting...
... Hm. I wonder what that says about what human souls can become or be used for. About things like undead and elementals and so on. That is, if human souls can be transformed into undead or elementals. Or rather, if human souls can be transformed into interesting and magical things, or aethyric things. Or about things like divine magic, too. Or elemental magic, for that part.
... Huh. Maybe the Create Wind Incarnate spell/ritual/thing the Colleges know does not require a human sacrifice exactly. Maybe the reason it requires a human life, is because... it transforms that human's soul into that Wind entirely? So it's still a sacrifice of a person, yes. But not by killing a person and then calling in an aethyric being from elsewhere, via that connection; no, it would be by turning the person into an Incarnate of that Wind.
Huh. Is it like an aethyric, spiritual, variant of the Dragon Transformation Altar? Except that merely transforms the body only. Whereas this transforms the soul, and that's a wee bit more permanent. Also, they probably lose their physical body too. And become an aethyric being entirely too. Sooo. Yeah. A sacrifice on that person's end of things.
- Location
- Brazil
Which is why I'm not suggesting to pack up and leave. I'm suggest we fight smart instead of come-at-me-ing daemons fresh from the warp when odds are they might never do any harm, and we can position ourselves to stop them if they come close to the one route that will let them do any.
I vote for harassment and fortifying the road.
Furthermore, I added this in a edit, but the simple fact that Dum is working means the odds of survivors went up tremendously. We have a duty for those too, and a far greater one as that's the entire purpose of this expedition.
- Location
- Finland
This reads like a great example of being too clever for our own good.
We don't have time or manpower to get clever, or actors good enough to sell your deception.
Also the dwarves already explained that they don't know about the secret entrances (because they are secret).
- Location
- Argentina
Bear in mind that if the daemons get to eat some souls then they will not go away. And might even summon more.
And that a single Daemon might be able to wipe out smaller villages on their own.
So, I'd rather not risk the posible snowball.
In fact, it is even more convenient to raze the village and move the population rather than letting the daemons have access to those souls.
So that's why I'm voting the road bockade. The harass option is the best, but a single failure point might just make it all pretty much useless, because they won't be able to fight a full head-on attack if they reach sustenance.
- Location
- United States
[x] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
- Location
- Brazil
If a single daemon, or even a small group of them, could snowball into an army Kislev wouldn't exist anymore.
Similarly, if they couldn't take a single daemon, then they wouldn't be alive today to be razed, dead by the many, many other dangers of the place.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Gosh I missed a lot overnight.
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
I like this one best. Lowers the chance we even have to fight, as some portion of the daemonic strength goes in the wrong directions, and then there's travel time for them to deal with as well.
Approval voting:
[X] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
I don't like this one as much because, well, if a Greater Daemon or similar pops out, I don't fancy the chances of our mounted combatants "harassing" them.
[] Plan Katahiraga
-[] Send enough people to evacuate all people in any population centers as well as warn the Kislevites about a potential daemon invasion, if needed give them a insignia of Mathilde Weber or any symbol that links King Belegar or anything that symbolizes Karak 8 peaks involvment.
-[] Fortify the Karak entrance with the steam-wagons, use the fortifications as distraction or camouflage for the plan of emptying any nearby population centers, try talking and arguing loudly about abandoning the population centers, make it look convincing such as sacrificing the few for the many. Have a few fights break up to sell the deception. Be sure to remove as much food from wagons, in case a hasty retreat is needed.
-[] If possible, fortify a random area as a decoy Waystone, that may further divide the daemons.
-[] Consult dwarves on possible secret entrances, and do best to fortify against flanking of the entrance to prevent ambushes. Talk to the other wizards to see if anyone can specialize in locating secret entrances in mountain.
But, again, this is not a good plan and multiple elements are already contradicted by Word of QM.
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
I like this one best. Lowers the chance we even have to fight, as some portion of the daemonic strength goes in the wrong directions, and then there's travel time for them to deal with as well.
Approval voting:
[X] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
I don't like this one as much because, well, if a Greater Daemon or similar pops out, I don't fancy the chances of our mounted combatants "harassing" them.
This is formatted wrong: each line is a separate vote. If you want a complex write-in like this (which you shouldn't, Boney has never been a fan of these and some of your bullet points cover things that Boney has already said aren't workable), you need to format it as a plan:
[] Plan Katahiraga
-[] Send enough people to evacuate all people in any population centers as well as warn the Kislevites about a potential daemon invasion, if needed give them a insignia of Mathilde Weber or any symbol that links King Belegar or anything that symbolizes Karak 8 peaks involvment.
-[] Fortify the Karak entrance with the steam-wagons, use the fortifications as distraction or camouflage for the plan of emptying any nearby population centers, try talking and arguing loudly about abandoning the population centers, make it look convincing such as sacrificing the few for the many. Have a few fights break up to sell the deception. Be sure to remove as much food from wagons, in case a hasty retreat is needed.
-[] If possible, fortify a random area as a decoy Waystone, that may further divide the daemons.
-[] Consult dwarves on possible secret entrances, and do best to fortify against flanking of the entrance to prevent ambushes. Talk to the other wizards to see if anyone can specialize in locating secret entrances in mountain.
But, again, this is not a good plan and multiple elements are already contradicted by Word of QM.
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[X] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
If a Greater Daemon pops up then Asarnil and Deathfang become cavalry, and everyone else becomes chaff best kept the hell out of the way. I really see it as the best reason to not build a static defense.