Nah, she gets to fuck around and blame her Ranalding on Sigmar,
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
This might actually be the fastest and most efficient way to create a Vengeful Spirit!Mathilde.
- Location
- Greece
Thats... thats the point, they need a god of magic because magic needs to be seen as a good thing. "Things are what they are" is not an answer to "things should become better".
And whether a god becomes important after a subject becomes important or a subject becomes important after a god does is a chicken and egg question in warhammer. Sigmar MADE feudalism and empire building important, so he became a god of it.
The times are a changing faster than that, thanks to the effort of Dragomas, and they could change faster if we act well. Despite what fantasy authors would have you belief, a generation is a long time for a belief to change. Also, one could do it like Sigmar, changing stuff one feat at a time.
Its also not pragmatism in combat only, but in general such a god would espouse, not only in killing, but in bettering society or forming countermeasures. I doubt Myrmydia would create a dragon monolith.
As for the Dawi having a god of radicalism... I am all with you, man, I merely presented why such a concept should exist and be strong, not that Mathilde should embody it. The how is immaterial to what I am saying, is what I am saying.
Well, yeah, it is a god of (some things) SV questers like because Mathilde is played and shaped by SV questers and she is played to be good and (mostly) moral in a way SV questers perceive such things. Its a shape shaped by itself, whether it is a good or bad thing is another matter entirely, however.
And while the gap of pre and post imperial life is greater for most people, you should ask any wizard what the gap of their life is pre and post colleges, and also consider if there would even BE an empire without Teclis and Magnus creating a source for human magical corps. A god of magic is culturally important, even if they do not wrestle primacy from Sigmar, and over time they may become more important still, as society evolves.
As for Dawi radicalism, it is a god they need because it is a concept they need, that change and progress is good sometimes, even within boundaries. A lot of gods make real estate by wrestling concepts from chaos gods, placing them within boundaries , and making them serve humanity rather than insanity, like, say, all the war gods vs Khorne, Ranald vs Tzeench, Mor vs Nurgle (on acceptance) etc.
And I never actually stated it would need to be Mathilde, just that the domains are needed. I am all for making Teclis a god of magic for the Empire, why not. I disagreed on the premise that the domains were unneeded.
The times are not changing as fast as you want and cannot without massive unrest which would lead to massive destruction because Chaos is always poised to pounce on weaknesses like that.
Myrmidia is a goddess of war, not magic, and is in no way associated with Ghur. So she'd not create a dragon monolith directly but she'd certainly use it.
And the whole point of my explanation is that the Dawi can't have a God of Radicalism. Someone doing radical things and them being accepted to the point they are even venerated as god for their contributions is by definition no longer radical, as they and the things they did become traditional.
Last edited:
Pretty sure that's not how gods work in Warhammer, at least from what we can observe of Sigmars ascension. He didn't become a God because the human tribes of the Old World yearned to create a unified Empire and beat back the forces of Darkness, he got shit done, created a unified Empire and beat back the forces of Darkness, then passed into legend and people slowly began to worship him because of how much better their life had become now that there was a unified Empire and the forces of Darkness had been beaten.
First times need to change, then a god can develop to fit them. Times haven't changed yet in regards to magic in the Empire for the vast, vast majority of people, and perhaps they never will.
Last edited:
- Location
- Greece
There is always massive unrest in Warhammer. And things are changing fast as a matter of observation, just compare the Empire pre and post Magnus, and Stirland pre and post Mathilde, its not a matter of what I want, it is a matter of whether it is observably possible, and it is.
And... yeah, exactly my point about Myrmydia, she only practices war, not infrastructure or magic.
And Dawi do not just work like that, or else expatriates and Gotri levevel radicals wouldnt exist. A cultural idea of "innovation=good" is something they need and, in quest at least, something possible.
Yeah dude, exactly, I am advocating for changing the times. Nagash did it, Sigmar did it, Magnus did it, its something humans can do, nd there is some institutional will and necessity behind that as well, even if it needs to be build further up. I am not saying Mathilde can, or shold do it alone or reap the rewards of godhood from all this necessarilly, but it is an objective both possible and worth pursuing.
For the people who'd most want a god of magic, times certainly changed. Teclis did it. Whether the population of the colleges is enough to form a god is another matter.
- Location
- Earth
The reaction to Wizards in Stirland when Mathilde was a child was burn them with only a single Watchman differing and insisting.
Now Mathilde has a fief and the reaction of her peasants is better than the merchants.
She is known as the Dämmerlichtreiter, the woman who rides the coming of night across Stirland, bringing ruin to the enemies of the Hunter-Count!
Peasants pray to figures of her.
the battle wizards are an integral part of reconquering sylvania.
times are changing, perhaps slowly, but they are changing.
Doing this might make you a minor diety, but for the wrong kind of dwarves.
The Colleges don't want or need a god of magic, they have a firmly non-theistic outlook and indoctrinate their members into thinking gods aren't important or necessary for them to do their work. You can tell by how they are organized like a university instead of like a temple.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- It/They
And he sucks at it!
Myrmidia is a goddess of more than just war, just like Sigmar and Ulric are, she's a god of civilisation, of an urbanised culture focused on cities, just as Sigmar was a god of the Empire's feudal organisation and way of making war, and Ulric was the god of the pre-Empire pastoralist nomadic tribes and their way of organising and making war.
- Location
- Greece
Yeah, but it doesn't incorporate magic.
- Pronouns
- It/They
Naw she rebels and takes oover the ulgu realm from that ass malekith and his mommy.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Assuming she doesn't get Ulgu originally. Even Malekith only got it by accident, IIRC, and because Teclis hadn't given it out yet when his original plan for Aqshy!Malekith didn't work. By that point in the hypothetical timeline Mathilde would probably be powerful and noticeable enough to be a shoo-in for the position.
What do people think, is the Balrog at Khazad-dum, oops sorry I meant Karak Dum, a daemon of Khorne or Hashut?
We're still missing our throwdown with Exemplarius the Bloodthirster, so put my 5 Silver Shillings on Khorne.
It certainly does. Divine magic.
- Location
- Australia
Ulricanism isn't more civilisation friendly. Look at Middenheim for proof. The reason Sigmar worship took off isn't because it's better for civilisation, it's because it was way more pro-noble than the Ulrican faith, which the nobles liked since it justified their power and gave them more of it.
That's a theory in-universe but wrongly construed as hard fact by a lot of people in real life.
Morr is the anti-undead god.
And, to say it again, its not Mathy, god of things SV like about her.
Its going to be The Dämmerlichtreiter, god of what Stirland peasants like about her.
So, in the off chance Mathy, or soul, or a old god highjacking her legend. she would be the god of things they would attach to her.
1: she is/was a wizard, that just a fact everyone would know. Origin: Magic
2: she is scary to vampire and necromancers that's the reason people are making wards of her already: aspect 1: Anti-undeath
3: she is known for riding around on a house made of shadows: aspect: riding, shadows.
4: I forget why, but people connect her with dusk and dawn(Twilight)
so, if a random strilander were to start a religion around her those would be the things they would connect her with. war and dwarfs and random shananages aren't really things that come to mind to this Stirlander.
then we turn it around and think of the parts that are most important to said worshipers
The Dämmerlichtreiter: Hatred of Vampire, Shadows, Twilight, Riding, magic.
or, for the magical inclined: Magic, Shadows, Twilight, anti-undead. books.
that's the god that makes sense for the people on the ground.
Its going to be The Dämmerlichtreiter, god of what Stirland peasants like about her.
So, in the off chance Mathy, or soul, or a old god highjacking her legend. she would be the god of things they would attach to her.
1: she is/was a wizard, that just a fact everyone would know. Origin: Magic
2: she is scary to vampire and necromancers that's the reason people are making wards of her already: aspect 1: Anti-undeath
3: she is known for riding around on a house made of shadows: aspect: riding, shadows.
4: I forget why, but people connect her with dusk and dawn(Twilight)
so, if a random strilander were to start a religion around her those would be the things they would connect her with. war and dwarfs and random shananages aren't really things that come to mind to this Stirlander.
then we turn it around and think of the parts that are most important to said worshipers
The Dämmerlichtreiter: Hatred of Vampire, Shadows, Twilight, Riding, magic.
or, for the magical inclined: Magic, Shadows, Twilight, anti-undead. books.
that's the god that makes sense for the people on the ground.
- Location
- Australia
Even this can be forgotten. Myrmidia may have been an elf.
Or may never have existed, or might have been the merger of multiple actual historical figures distorted into legend.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Morr can be the God that keeps the mean undead away and then Mathilde becomes the Goddess who keeps the friendly undead watching over you!
You laugh, but things breaking down to the point that Mathilde has to keep a successor state of the Empire alive with the full power of the Liber Mortis is one of the most likely paths for her to become a Goddess, just because that's the sort of context and the feats it would take to dislodge existing faiths in favor of Mathilde.
I'm just saying, if we are playing the 'what god would mathy be' game while waiting for the update.
we need to think 'what would the people on the ground think she is the god of?'
not 'what we, the players, think she is the god of.'
because if anything about AOS Sigmar is connected to WF Sigmar... we then know that gods don't really get much chose about what they are the god of (I just want to hit stuff with my hammer! why so much paperwork!')