We didn't have the option of doing a time skip to focus solely on the research materials that had piled up. We could only choose to do research if we were doing something else for the college at the same time that required us to stay in one place.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
We didn't have the option of doing a time skip to focus solely on the research materials that had piled up. We could only choose to do research if we were doing something else for the college at the same time that required us to stay in one place.
PsyFarrow
Verified Necrodancer
- Location
- Space
Building on this line of thought, Ulgu is shadows, mist, illusions, confusion, boundaries, truth, and sometimes dark and stormy nights.
So, light, but not light, clear air, but not clear, true images, but uninformative, things that enlighten, but you really wish they hadn't, a breaking down of intellectual boundaries and the definitions of truth and such, and sometimes clear, bright nights that aren't really clear or nights at all.
Obviously, what this means is that when we ask for a super killy greataxe the Dwarves will give us this beautiful bane of beasts.
Or, if we're dead set on keeping a greatsword...
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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- Places
I just think it would be far more interesting to manage to be the first and possibly only human user of Qhaysh(even if it is by indirect means) rather than yet another Dhar user(Even if the exact method of use is a bit different.)
Not to mention that if anyone works out we're using Dhar then pretty much everyone will want us dead, While with Qhaysh we'd be the greatest human mage in history.(Nagesh not counted due to being the worlds biggest asshole.)
Not to mention that if anyone works out we're using Dhar then pretty much everyone will want us dead, While with Qhaysh we'd be the greatest human mage in history.(Nagesh not counted due to being the worlds biggest asshole.)
- Location
- Russia
You are talking like Qhaysh is a concrete, single thing. It is not. It is a concept. When HE Loremaster casts spell he doesn't take some nebulous Qhaysh substance and uses it as fuel. What he really does:
"Hm, I need an effect where burning arrows of light fall from the sky and destroy daemons but nothing else. For that I need 3 parts of Hysh, 1 part of Azyr, 1 part of Aqshy and a pinch of Ghyran". Then he channels these four Winds, combines them in a perfect weave and gets desired effect. That weave is Qhaysh. When same Loremaster wants to heal someone, he weaves only Ghyran and Hysh. That is also Qhaysh, but it is different from the first one. Qhaysh isn't some combination of the Winds, it is any flawless combination of the Winds, regardless of the components. Dhar works the same way - only in the case of Dhar it is not the perfect weave but some slapdash mix that still gets the job done, or something close to it, but possibly imperfectly and probably with side-effects.
Regarding "wielding Qhaysh through another wind" - I'm pretty sure that is impossible. Wielding Dhar through your Wind is like handling toxic materials in bulky protective mitts - not very comfortable, but possible. Attempting to weave Qhaysh through your Wind is like trying to be a jeweler in the same bulky mitts - required precision is pretty much impossible.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Or it would be if we didn't have a method for making liquid magic, which we could probably mix if we work out how to separate different Winds out, thus creating ready made Qhaysh spells.
Which we could possibly manipulate using Uglu if we manage to form it into mist.
It would probably take an insane amount of research but it's the closest any human has ever gotten.
Okay, no. Do NOT touch Dhar. Ever. For any reason. Even if we are completely, totally untouchable, there are still problems. The mindset needed for Dhar is inherently arrogant. Nobody knows or can prove that we're actually immune, meaning we would still be hunted by the Empire for doing proscribed magic. Worst of all, we could become a tool for corruption of other wizards.
Look at Mathilde...she's had such success, such power! Clearly Dhar/Warpstone/Chaos isn't as bad as everyone claims...you just need to make something that protects you against corruption...here, try these designs...
Evil corrupting magic that can kill civilizations and gods is always bad, okay?
Look at Mathilde...she's had such success, such power! Clearly Dhar/Warpstone/Chaos isn't as bad as everyone claims...you just need to make something that protects you against corruption...here, try these designs...
Evil corrupting magic that can kill civilizations and gods is always bad, okay?
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Yeah not to mention even if we avoid that people will forever be waiting for us to do something wrong.
And that's if they even give us a chance beyond "She used Dhar? Send in the Witchhunters!"
Our rep is enough if its just living there, as long as we keep the magic out of the hold as last word
- Location
- France
Pff.
The ingredients for a Shadowcraft Mage "killer gnome" build are all in the same splatbook that introduced the class (mostly) so it seems very deliberate. Well, getting Miracle can't have been deliberate, but that's just an extra at level 17. The meat of the build (super-real spells) seems very intentional, as you can get to at least 110% with the book alone.
Why? Because it's not actually that good. The concept is cool but to take the extra damage the target typically needs to make a Will Save and then fail a Ref save (often doesn't happen, and both saves must have the same DC), and the creatures with low Ref tend to be bags of HP anyway.
I'm playing one now and while it is cool a good Evoker (with feats chosen for evocation and not illusions) is still far better at dealing damage.
No, the main good point is the versatility it brings (and the ability to cast Shalantha's delicate disc without paying the gold - now that's cheese), and that kind of power is something Mathilde could do with. Pull almost any spell out of a hat a few times per day, and make illusory Walls of Stone that actually stops arrows and such? That's fantastic!
Qhaysh can't be wielded through Ulgi, as Qhaysh isn't a thing that exists. It's not a substance or object like True Dhar.
It's a practice, not an object. Think of it as being a verb, not a noun. Non-True Dhar is the same.
You can't have a supply of Qhayash any more than you can have a supply of swordsmanship.
Using one Wind to directly touch the flows of another Wind is, IIRC, part of Qhaysh if done properly (which is impossible for human minds/souls) or Dhar if done normally. There are ways of cheating. I mentioned the Alchemy of the Gold Wizards before. They use Chamon to manipulate matter that's been saturated by another Wind and so acquired magical properties. This is safe because the Chamon and the other Wind don't ever directly interact/touch each other. This is how the Gold Wizards can make flaming swords and similar enchanted weapons. They can do this because Chamon is the Wind suitable for manipulating unliving physical matter. A Jade Wizard could probably do something similar with living creatures or plants that have similarly absorbed a Wind and developed magical properties.
It's theoretically possible, as I proposed before, that Mathilde could invent Ulgu based alchemy based around mists infused with other Winds. The snake juice would help with that, if she learns how to fractionally distill it and produce pure liquid magic of the individual Winds.
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Not really, that's just to make it easier. Magisters can make gaseous and liquid Winds, and do so as part of the relatively well understood Power Stone production process. The snake box just allows us to skip the first two stages of that process and substitute them for having to fractionally distill the mixed magical liquid.
We're just likely to have much larger quantities on hand to experiment with, and we don't have to persuade Magisters from other colleges to liquify their Wind for us to use, which would ring all sorts of alarm bells.
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- Location
- Estonia
I just find the dhar debates and stuff very pointless since were not gonna do it during the siege. Please lets dont get lost in pointless debate wich also depends on whatever the GM-s interpation is going to be on dhar usage outside the warhammer lore aswell for another layer of stuff. It is also kinda only a option thanks to our chaos taint immunity thanks to the item but it will be a slippery slope to go down on and probably why people are debating this now that i think of it?
People are forgetting that magic has barely been allowed in the empire for a few generations and peasants options of it still is burn the witch and with pretty good reason to be honest. One of the main reasons outside going cultist or spawning demons is necromancy and that it will usually drive the user insane or it is the realm of vampire magic . So using dhar would get us in trouble very easily especially if other mages are around to see it since they should know it almost immediatly.
It is only kinda interesting depending on what the liber mortis says about it and what options it provides and thats it to be honest cause just fing around with dhar sounds really really stupid unless u have some ideas and some sources to work from. Im hoping for other benefits from reading it outside messing with dhar and necromancy to be honest.
The hope is that we get enough knowledge to create not tainted spells and stuff so we can get to the road of wizard lordship faster. Rather than just invent a new kind of freaking necromancy and taint another college with necromancy worries in the future.
We might have to read liber mortis wich probably isnt a great idea during the siege if it doesnt go well is a more interesting discussion to have. And whatever liber mortis provides and it might be abit useless since necromancy is done with shyish tainted dhar and i have no idea how we would use that for example.
Altough making the liquid into power stones might be interesting to pursue if thats how things work.
And we really should try to do something with it in the future . Probably throw a action or two poking it abit and then probably finding a elf to consult if we arent very succesful. At worst it should have value to them in monetary terms if we arent succesful in getting anything out of it.
People are forgetting that magic has barely been allowed in the empire for a few generations and peasants options of it still is burn the witch and with pretty good reason to be honest. One of the main reasons outside going cultist or spawning demons is necromancy and that it will usually drive the user insane or it is the realm of vampire magic . So using dhar would get us in trouble very easily especially if other mages are around to see it since they should know it almost immediatly.
It is only kinda interesting depending on what the liber mortis says about it and what options it provides and thats it to be honest cause just fing around with dhar sounds really really stupid unless u have some ideas and some sources to work from. Im hoping for other benefits from reading it outside messing with dhar and necromancy to be honest.
The hope is that we get enough knowledge to create not tainted spells and stuff so we can get to the road of wizard lordship faster. Rather than just invent a new kind of freaking necromancy and taint another college with necromancy worries in the future.
We might have to read liber mortis wich probably isnt a great idea during the siege if it doesnt go well is a more interesting discussion to have. And whatever liber mortis provides and it might be abit useless since necromancy is done with shyish tainted dhar and i have no idea how we would use that for example.
Altough making the liquid into power stones might be interesting to pursue if thats how things work.
And we really should try to do something with it in the future . Probably throw a action or two poking it abit and then probably finding a elf to consult if we arent very succesful. At worst it should have value to them in monetary terms if we arent succesful in getting anything out of it.
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Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
And yet we are in posession of a liquid which is theorized to be exactly that. Admittedely, that is only a theory and we can't know for sure, but it's the only theory we have so far.
Speaking of the snake-juice...
Might be worth having the (closest thing we have to an) expert take a look at it when the opportunity arises. We brought a flask or two.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
No, it's a misnomer of a nickname.
Snake Juice does not shine like mother-of-pearl lit by a thousand suns, scouring people with absolute brilliance and yet filling them with indescribable elation, nor radiate so intensely that its light propagates into the material realm strongly enough to hurt people's physical eyes along with their metaphysical ones.
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As a note, the Belt should make investigating the snake blood much, much safer, as Mathilde would be almost bound to mess up when investigating and accidentally use magic in the Dhar fashion when studying it.
Well, we know it's not that, given what Qhayash is.
What you can have is a mixture of liquified Winds. Mathilde doesn't know about it IC as she didn't study Power Stone Creation when we had the chance, but if eight Magisters from the different Colleges that knew how to do it worked together I think they could reproduce the snake's blood.
Well, that's just how Valens perceived the process of casting High Magic. A different wizard or spellcasting priests might perceive it through a different type of synesthesia or metaphor.
Your general point is completely correct though. From what we know, magical weavings constructed according to Qhaysh principles look indescribably beautiful and majestic to magisters.
A potion is physical matter that has absorbed the energy of one of the Winds of Magic. This seems to be pure magic concentrated into liquid form.
Well, we know it's not that, given what Qhayash is.
What you can have is a mixture of liquified Winds. Mathilde doesn't know about it IC as she didn't study Power Stone Creation when we had the chance, but if eight Magisters from the different Colleges that knew how to do it worked together I think they could reproduce the snake's blood.
Well, that's just how Valens perceived the process of casting High Magic. A different wizard or spellcasting priests might perceive it through a different type of synesthesia or metaphor.
Your general point is completely correct though. From what we know, magical weavings constructed according to Qhaysh principles look indescribably beautiful and majestic to magisters.
A potion is physical matter that has absorbed the energy of one of the Winds of Magic. This seems to be pure magic concentrated into liquid form.
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Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
And warpstone exhibits few properties of actively used dhar, and yet is the same thing. The visual characteristics are largely irrelevant.
On the topic of Qhaysh nature - I don't find myself in agreement to your definition. It is not a process. It's a state of magic, which contains all the basic winds self-contained and unmixed (as opposed to Dhar where they are mixed. Interestingly, Dhar doesn't require the presence of more than two winds and is not picky about proportion, but I digress) One which, up to now, was only found artificially occuring, and only in immaterial substate. However, nothing stops it from having a theoretical material substate, similar to dhar and all the basic winds. With the snake juice being described as "every colour intermingled but uncurdled" it is either the theoretical material cubstate of Qhaysh, or something even more exotic.
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
You do realize that description was by a mage, and every mage perceives magic differently.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Another point in favor of it being a misnomer: Boney isn't going to give us the Holy Grail of all magic users just because we accidentally a chaos snake.
'But guile!' you may say. 'We got the Liber Mortis!' But as our argument just proved, we are far too afraid of the downsides of ultimate power to actually do anything with true Dhar. Qhaysh has no such negative connotations.
'But guile!' you may say. 'We got the Liber Mortis!' But as our argument just proved, we are far too afraid of the downsides of ultimate power to actually do anything with true Dhar. Qhaysh has no such negative connotations.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Personally I believe the Snake Juice will basically turn out to be a hyper potent fuel we can use to supercharge our spells, sort of like what Disorder spellcasters do with warpstone only not as potent or unstable/corruptive. So basically if we wanted to summon a herd of Shadowsteads in one go we would need to use a flask of Snake Juice to boost the spell.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
For all we know, it might be unstable as fuck, waiting only for a magical punch to loose self-containment and turn into Dhar. Or it is otherwise hard or dangerous to work with.
The point is, we don't know exactly what it is as we never experimented on it, and I find the discussion more or less pointless until we make initial forays into snake juice.
Warpstone is concentrated True Dhar, as a Power Stone is to one of the Winds of Magic, and looks the same as Tru Dhar (but worse) to Magesight. Warpstone has nothing at all to do with regular Dhar, which, like Qhaysh is a way of weaving the Winds of Magic into spells, not the raw material you form the spells from.
Qhaysh is the process of safely using more than one wind at once. A Qhaysh spell could contain all eight Winds if it had a particularly broad effect, but it doesn't have to, it could just contain two of them if that was all that was required to produce the desired result.
Remember Dhar is not True Dhar. They have effectively nothing at all in common,save that they're generally used by the bad guys. True Dhar is made by crushing all eight winds back together to create a new magical 'substance'. True Dhar is no longer a construct of the eight Winds, it's it's own thing, which is the same as the raw substance of the warp.