Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Same reason they think they can get away with the Tomb Gold, or won't all die trying to sack a Temple-City.
- Pronouns
- It/They
Yeah most people aren't luthor harkon
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I mean, that one was abandoned and he still came out worse for it.
- Location
- Finland
Simple human psychology.
Being rich and powerful enough will insulate you from a lot of consequences, or give you ability to make other people pay for your mistakes.
Marienburg leadership can't be complete morons, but they are working within a very specific paradigm that is very much not the same paradigm that Karaz Ankor is operating under.
Assuming this is not a false flag, it is fairly easy to see the kind of escalation of plans happening in Marienburg council that would lead some among them to do something very ill adviced and assume nobody will ever know.
And nobody might, i would hope these people are not stupid enough to not have multiple disposable catspaws between them and people actually doing the deed, and who have by now been disposed of.
Being rich and powerful enough will insulate you from a lot of consequences, or give you ability to make other people pay for your mistakes.
Marienburg leadership can't be complete morons, but they are working within a very specific paradigm that is very much not the same paradigm that Karaz Ankor is operating under.
Assuming this is not a false flag, it is fairly easy to see the kind of escalation of plans happening in Marienburg council that would lead some among them to do something very ill adviced and assume nobody will ever know.
And nobody might, i would hope these people are not stupid enough to not have multiple disposable catspaws between them and people actually doing the deed, and who have by now been disposed of.
- Pronouns
- It/They
You mean the one that drove him nuts?
I'm not talking about that one,.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
There's also the issue that Marienburg doesn't have any sort of central intrigue organization, so all the major merchants are running their own efforts with noone coordinating them or reigning them in when they look to be going too far.
Warning: Hello There
hello there
So, I understand that quest arguments can be exhausting and frustrating. Actually, that's sometimes a bit of an understatement.
Being part of a large, fast moving and long running Quest is sort of being on a bus ride with a group of people you didn't pick. You find yourselves arguing with strangers about the choice of route and whether to stop at McDonalds, and the ride never ends, until it does, at which point you miss it fiercely. Sometimes, you make some friends along the way. Other times, you end up in a never-ending argument with the guy sitting behind you who is convinced you should have stopped at Little Chef instead of Starbucks, and frustrations build.
I understand that.
But the truth is that we must all treat one another with respect on this forum if it is to remain a nice place to be. I appreciate that you were both telling another user to avoid a heated exchange, rather than than just piling in yourselves. But if we expect to be treated in good faith by our peers, it is essential that we treat other users as if they are behaving in good faith too. Dismissing another user as not worth the effort of responding to or as trolling violates this principle. If you feel another user is actually are not behaving in good faith*, then you can report them, or simply refrain from engaging with them.
As a result, I have no choice but to give both of you a standard infraction under Rule 3, given the heightened civility standard of this thread, as well as a one-day threadban. Please don't do this again.
Thanks for your time.
*(It is possible to say that you do not feel another user is acting in good faith and do so within the rules, but if you are right, then it usually isn't worth it.)
Being part of a large, fast moving and long running Quest is sort of being on a bus ride with a group of people you didn't pick. You find yourselves arguing with strangers about the choice of route and whether to stop at McDonalds, and the ride never ends, until it does, at which point you miss it fiercely. Sometimes, you make some friends along the way. Other times, you end up in a never-ending argument with the guy sitting behind you who is convinced you should have stopped at Little Chef instead of Starbucks, and frustrations build.
I understand that.
But the truth is that we must all treat one another with respect on this forum if it is to remain a nice place to be. I appreciate that you were both telling another user to avoid a heated exchange, rather than than just piling in yourselves. But if we expect to be treated in good faith by our peers, it is essential that we treat other users as if they are behaving in good faith too. Dismissing another user as not worth the effort of responding to or as trolling violates this principle. If you feel another user is actually are not behaving in good faith*, then you can report them, or simply refrain from engaging with them.
As a result, I have no choice but to give both of you a standard infraction under Rule 3, given the heightened civility standard of this thread, as well as a one-day threadban. Please don't do this again.
Thanks for your time.
*(It is possible to say that you do not feel another user is acting in good faith and do so within the rules, but if you are right, then it usually isn't worth it.)
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@BoneyM, I understand that things have been too hectic to get an actual count of survivors and confirmed dead but do we know how many were on board from the passenger manifest or failing that how many Dwarves the ship was rated to carry at a time? Upper bounds on how catastrophic this was would be nice.
Somewhere in the mid to high hundreds.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The gyrocopter that reported the sinking stopped at Barak Varr first, presumably they would've sent a gyrocopter messenger to KaK to tell them.
No. By the time a response from KaK arrives, Barak Varr's navy will have.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Speaking of, I wonder if the Barak Varr Navy has techniques and equipment capable of raising a sunken Monitor from the riverbed? Or, I dunno, olden walk-diving suits with those surface air pumps?
Perhaps to get a look at the bottom of the boat, if that's where the damage was.
Perhaps to get a look at the bottom of the boat, if that's where the damage was.
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NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Assuming mid hundreds means ~500 and 60% are dead that means a conservative estimate is about 300 dead. Assuming that all onboard were metalsmiths (the Metalsmiths Guild Leader was onboard and it seems logical that different guilds would be put on different boats on the journey home) that means 300 metalsmiths are dead. Karaz-a-Karak has a population of 95000. Assuming that metalsmiths make up 10% of the population means that KaK's Metalsmiths Guild has just lost ~3.16% of it's total membership, assuming they make up 1% of the population means they've lost ~31.58%
Edit: Breakdown fixed.
| % of KaK population that is metalsmiths | % of Metalsmiths Guild dead |
| 1% | ~31.58% |
| 2% | ~15.79% |
| 3% | ~10.53% |
| 4% | ~7.89% |
| 5% | ~6.32% |
| 6% | ~5.26% |
| 7% | ~4.51% |
| 8% | ~3.95% |
| 9% | ~3.51% |
| 10% | ~3.16% |
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- Location
- Canada
- Location
- Brazil
Good call. Edited.
"Unconfirmed," he says, double checking some hastily-scrawled notes, "but it sounds like a lot. An entire passenger monitor went down while carrying several hundred passengers, perhaps as many as a thousand. My pilot who was escorting the convoy said there was some sort of explosion below the waterline, then musket fire from the shore. And that's not a good river to go down in." You suppress a shudder at the thought. Skull River is named not so much for the bones that litter its banks, but for the skull-shaped markings on the ravenous swarms of predatory fish that fill it.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I hope Cython was already awake when the alarm sounded, otherwise they're gonna be really annoyed.
...rereading this.
The musket fire should be a diversion, because nobody would shoot at an ironclad monitor with muskets and expect to do anything more than dents unless they didn't know it was a monitor, or they had information that a monitor would be sunk here and they're to shoot at it so nobody gets off. All it'd do is slow evacuation into lifeboats, because they're under fire and the ship is already sinking.
The bandits are bait so nobody checks on WHY theres an explosion below the waterline, which requires either a simple bomb planted on board, sabotaged boilers/fuel, or an advanced mine using magic(Ulthuan, Vampires, Marienburg College, Imperial College, Arabyan) or advanced engineering(Skaven, Dwarves, one off invention from Imperial School of Engineering).
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't think the monitor was the target of the musket fire, I think that was for the people desperately fleeing the sinking ship, you can't dodge if you're swimming and lifeboats aren't known for their armor. Either you stay in the ship and drown or brave the musket fire, it won't kill all the survivors but it'll certainly cut down on the number of them.
- Location
- Finland
I would expect that if there was a planted explosive, there would not have been musket fire because they would not have been in the right place to fire muskets.
More likely there was a mine of somesort (i continue to assume Marienburg would have access to these, they are a maritime power, inability to create and/or deal with mines would be glaring major weakness), or magic (mage or magic item), and the musket fire was to stop anyone from getting out of the ship.
Though i am curious what we can tell about muskets.
Firearms are not yet that common, average bandits are not going to have them, many standing armies do not have them.
Can we track them based on muskets alone? Either from the sound and light from musket fire, or tracking who has had lot of muskets around the area.
Any groups of people with muskets should have been noticeable unless they avoided all settlements, which does not sound likely.
Personally, I think this is a chaos plot, rather than anything Marienburg did. I can believe Marienburg going after the actual canal project, or funding piracy in the Empire, but attacking dwarven shipping all the way in the Border Princes seems super unlikely, especially since this is the first mine attack we've heard of and it just so happened to hit the Okral.
A timed explosive would blow up at a pretty predictable time when the fuse runs out.
Its fairly simple even for the Empire to make a bomb that'd blow up 3 hours later, given a suitable fuse. And dwarf monitors move at a predictable rate.
The major problem with a mine is that the kind of force needed for a mine to breach a metal ship is very improbable without using an enchantment for it. The only civ with the tech to do it reliably are the Skaven, or dwarf radical engineers.