Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
What would you perceive as the risk of doing so? Sure the Karaz-ankor loses a number of rune lords, on the other hand it also has a drastic change in rune smithing culture and Thorek will be the one shaping it. We need runesmiths in Karak Dum, runesmiths from any other polity if Karak dum still stands will not have a remotely warm welcome and frankly chances are if Karak dum still stands not recruiting Thorek or the Azul runesmiths at best just strings things along for a bit until Thorek has a chance to meet with the evacuees and then shit kicks off any way.
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- Location
- Earth
my plan does not recruit them.
If everyone is dead we are going to need Runesmiths to get past any traps and inside sealed vaults. Hell we might need them to check if the tombs are intact.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
" but people seem to really want to have a trading company be better at enforcing their will via weapons "
" but people"
i.e. players.
We both know that most are not thinking of how the shape of government in this game differs from our modern conception of state - your analysis (which I disagree with) is more indepth than those going "corp paramilitary = good" are using for their reasoning. I myself wasn't thinking of the "who will do the shooting" as much as "what happens in 150 years when this buisness has an army". Like who the hell do we think we are; bloody Pepsi!?
And I disagree with the bolded bit. Giving weapons is giving up power. An already established violence-wielding-group would step up, or take those weapons and expand and then step up when called rather than let some newcomer get in, if they can help it.
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Regardless, I've never been able to convince those who want corporations to have more power over the life (and the ending of that life) of the individual than they do, be it in fiction or IRL that an organisation that has a primary function of 'profit' should maybe not have more power.
What I'm saying is that I'm dropping this line of conversation about the EIC for good.
(Note, I've seen people say stuff like this to try and get the 'last word' in. If you want to respond with parts of my post here, please word it in an 'end of conversation' way as oppose to one that is open to a reply from me)
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Tbh, not recruiting Azul rune smiths out of fear of the political consequences seems short sighted if Karak Dum still stands then Thorek will have his chance to talk with the runesmiths of Karak Dum regardless when they evacuate. All that not recruiting them does is shift things along maybe a year or two.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Perhaps one of the Ulrikadrin? Wolf Cavalry could be devastating if one of them had fire breath.
Edit: Ulrikadrin.. Ulrik Kadrin... darn Dawi portmandeus
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I still think the flask is best in Mathildes hands given our stealth and what we're able to do on that front. Consider the Skaven and Goblin meeting we chanced upon in K8P I think it's pretty likely in a situation like that our dragon breath flask could have cleared the room more or less instantly. In K8P when we found the orc boss surrounded by his guarded we could have literally fragged the entire room and not had the chase at all.
- Location
- Earth
I doubt only few would be willing to use that much Zhuf.
Mathilde likely would be wary of giving an item of that much power to someone else as well.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Fair point. It just chafes me that we'd be without casting for a few minutes.
Jut to clarify my own position which is somewhat pro-arming, I actually agree with the above, but I think this is a 'Gotri and the thosuand year canons' situation. It's good to plan for the next century and a half, but for all we know the world might not have that much time left in it unless it gets turned around in its death spiral. Is it dangerous to give the EIC weapons, indubitably. Might the risk be worth it to prevent potentially cripping trade disruptions to the empire right now, maybe.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Yea it's a painful downside, but there's a lot of utility in that flask as well it just isn't a pull flask and win button but that sorta makes sense. Magical items of this power shouldn't be a replacement for a wizard that could cast that spell and like this it isn't. I kind of like the way BoneyM has made this because it sort of explains why every one isn't just loaded up with items of boom.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Indeed. A well balanced item. Now just to remember that we can't (shouldn't?) use the seed either during this time. Braulhune is going to see a lot of work.
Boney did suggest that the shock effect on the opposition would get us a few minutes...and its verbal spellcasting only. Mathilde can cast silently for the simpler spells.
And the seed should be fine unless we're regenerating our mouth.
I wonder if we'd get Dwarf Favour or a Grudge for using some Bugman's XXXXX to set a Demonic Horde on fire. The stuff even seems to be slightly magical, going by how it makes people immune to fear for half a day, so maybe there will be extra effects!
And hey, it would taste good, and i am somewhat secure in my belief that Bugman's XXXXX is in fact flammable, given it is stated to have as much of a kick as four equivalent drinks!
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] PLAN: Chaos makes Taal feel peeved!
I am happy to wake up and see this, though I would be happier if it specified that the goal for enchanting the robe was that it be always-on.
EDIT: To be clear, I think it is a very bad idea in "Plan: Fog Path to Success (Damsels and Rune smiths)" to drop doing a Duckling recruitment action to help Hubert get a familiar. More knights would be good, the fieldwardens would also be good, but to ignore it entirely seems really questionable.
I also don't like the EIC action, much less for reasons of "I am worried about the EIC's navy being a problem down the line" than for reasons of "Integrating the Gong Farmers seems like a good idea."
EDIT2: Fog Path has dropped the Hubert action, so I'll toss an approval vote its way.
[X] Plan: Fog Path to Success (Damsels and Rune smiths)
[X] PLAN: No Risking Runesmiths
I am happy to wake up and see this, though I would be happier if it specified that the goal for enchanting the robe was that it be always-on.
EDIT: To be clear, I think it is a very bad idea in "Plan: Fog Path to Success (Damsels and Rune smiths)" to drop doing a Duckling recruitment action to help Hubert get a familiar. More knights would be good, the fieldwardens would also be good, but to ignore it entirely seems really questionable.
I also don't like the EIC action, much less for reasons of "I am worried about the EIC's navy being a problem down the line" than for reasons of "Integrating the Gong Farmers seems like a good idea."
EDIT2: Fog Path has dropped the Hubert action, so I'll toss an approval vote its way.
[X] Plan: Fog Path to Success (Damsels and Rune smiths)
[X] PLAN: No Risking Runesmiths
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[X] PLAN: Chaos makes Taal feel peeved!
- Location
- Spain
[X] Plan: Fog Path, Murderkittybirds and Ogres
-[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
-[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
-[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
-[X] EIC: Sell some of the Grand Urbaz Bank coins to collectors and museums on King Belegar's behalf.
-[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
-[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
-[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell
--[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
-[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery.
-[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Ogre Mercenaries, Runesmiths of Azul)
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
-[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
Well, here is my plan I think that any action with the duckings at this point that is not focused in recruiting is kind of a waste, and the Dmygriphs Knights are some of the best cavalry in the world, and the EIC coins is simply taking an option that will be here ony for this turn and give us a good amount of gold, which is always useful...
And I really think that we are severely lacking some sort of Super Heavy Infantry which will be extremely useful once we are inside the Karag, whare our Steam Wagons will have it really difficult to enter, and our cavalry effectiveness will be significantly limited by the terrain...
So let´s get some ogres, they are extremely, strong, tough, resistant to chaos, and quite fast, plus there are plenty of ogre mercenaries, so they are relatively expendable... Damsels are awesome but I don´t know how feasible it is to recruit them, but I guess that it will be quite difficult...
-[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
-[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
-[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
-[X] EIC: Sell some of the Grand Urbaz Bank coins to collectors and museums on King Belegar's behalf.
-[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
-[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
-[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell
--[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
-[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery.
-[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Ogre Mercenaries, Runesmiths of Azul)
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
-[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
Well, here is my plan I think that any action with the duckings at this point that is not focused in recruiting is kind of a waste, and the Dmygriphs Knights are some of the best cavalry in the world, and the EIC coins is simply taking an option that will be here ony for this turn and give us a good amount of gold, which is always useful...
And I really think that we are severely lacking some sort of Super Heavy Infantry which will be extremely useful once we are inside the Karag, whare our Steam Wagons will have it really difficult to enter, and our cavalry effectiveness will be significantly limited by the terrain...
So let´s get some ogres, they are extremely, strong, tough, resistant to chaos, and quite fast, plus there are plenty of ogre mercenaries, so they are relatively expendable... Damsels are awesome but I don´t know how feasible it is to recruit them, but I guess that it will be quite difficult...
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
No offance bu this is pure paranoia. I honestly don't know how to convince you otherwise since you guys are so unreasonable about this which is pity because we are ultimately watchers of EIC and that means a stronger EIC makes a better tool for us.
Edit: Damn that is a lot of posts I missed.
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I don't trust them. Ogre mercenaries have a terrible track record of eating their employers. Given that we will be going somewhere food will be scarce and hard to find and the whispers of the Chaos Gods are plenty, this seems to be courting disaster to me.
- Location
- Spain
Ogres are almost as resistant to chaos corruption and its whispers as lizardmen... And we can always pay them with the corpses of our enemies...
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Chaos ogres exist, they aren't actually nearly as resistant as lizard men and they are incredibly unreliable. As much as I love the Ostland dynasty quest please keep in mind we wouldn't be dealing with Urgdug trained and encultured Ogres. We'd be dealing with mercenaries from the mountains of Mourn. They are incredibly unreliable.
The Gong farmers do the same work as part of our fief as they do in EIC hands, all that does is shift the ownership. Where as improving the EIC navy quality means we lose less shipments good for trade, good for the EIC and good for the empire.
The gong farmer action has no real effect in the short term and the long term can be pushed off another turn with no consequence.
It's not that I'm ignoring the other actions I've just prioritised Huberts wizarding powers over getting heavy cavalry. Whether that's the right decision or not is hard to tell outright but given the force multipliers that wizards are and Huberts brand of magic in particular is amazing for that I think it's worth while. Consider that this also helps him with his long term decision about continuing on as a wizard.
I understand the reticence however.
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Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
But after having caught up with the thread,
At first the idea of Runemasters struck me that if they're this radical then they might actually have forgone the usual Master-Apprentice system and actually have written things down. Then I realized that if I were a clan of Runemasters on the brink of being overrun by chaos then I would absolutely not have written things down.
Then the thought struck me that as a clan of Runemasters I would've trapped the living daylights out of every single corner of the Karak... which means that we might want a Runesmith with us, preferably someone who's a bit of a skater, just to make sure we don't explode.
At first the idea of Runemasters struck me that if they're this radical then they might actually have forgone the usual Master-Apprentice system and actually have written things down. Then I realized that if I were a clan of Runemasters on the brink of being overrun by chaos then I would absolutely not have written things down.
Then the thought struck me that as a clan of Runemasters I would've trapped the living daylights out of every single corner of the Karak... which means that we might want a Runesmith with us, preferably someone who's a bit of a skater, just to make sure we don't explode.
Yeah sure, they are resistant to Chaos corruption, but are they resistant to that one dickback Daemon telling them they'd get more to feast if they turned on us? After all Daemons aren't even really physically there and may not leave behind corpses...
Mercenaries are always iffy in their loyalties, especially with the wealth of a (probably) fallen major Dwarfhold on the line, but Ogres are usually incredibly greedy and stupid enough to think they can get away with anything against a bunch of people smaller than they are.
If we found a band with a lot of references of working well with Dwarves and being reliable I wouldn't have a problem with that, but 95% of Ogre mercenaries are in the mold of Golgfag Maneater, who has probably betrayed more contracts than he held to over his long career.
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