Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
I see someone's gotten into the Druchii smut.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Matilde: "What tricks do I have up my sleeve for the Expedition? Yes, I know I said my other superweapons weren't ready for deployment.
No, these aren't those ideas. This is more spur of the moment, like the Blood Menhir of Dragons.
I've got a brand new technique to keep the steam wagons on track. Mhorzhuf tracks, you might say. Even Gotri might call it untested, I only came up with this idea last month.
My other ideas for your Karak... well, lets just say if you see more than one of me around at once, looking extra-shadowy, don't worry unless it's... well, hmm, maybe just call me."
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
This reminds me, but did we ever actually report the AV thing? I'm sure he's heard of it, if the Runesmith's actually told anybody, but did Belegar get informed that it was, in fact, one of Mathilde's "undeployable" superweapons? I think that just leaves the Liber Mortis for what she actually had in mind at the time, now. Which of course we'll never use unless things get really desperate.
Hmm, I wonder if the staff counts as a super weapon? Or merely counts as making herself deployable as one, since Battlemagic is pretty superweapon-ish.
For all it is a thread meme, when the thread has the collective balls to 'try it and find out', we get nice stuff like battle magic.
- Location
- Space
Telling people things wouldn't be very on brand for runesmiths, so I'd guess he hasn't been directly informed, but he may have noticed the flow of activity.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Yeah, that sounds possible I guess.
Hmm... as I recall, Boneyentioned recently that Cataclysm magic usually comes about from aiming to create Battlemagic, and completely overshooting. With our sheer bonuses, that might actually happen to us if we roll really high on any of our spellcrafting rolls. Imagine a killcloud Cataclysm Magic. That would be scary.
Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
Strangely enough, I'd rather see what a Cataclysmic Path of Fog would look like. I can imagine what Cataclysmic killy magic is like, I can't quite get my head around what a Utility spell would look like at that level.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
The Path can shorten the distance between two points.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Bamboozle space into thinking you already traversed it!
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
So we get nothing from learning the spell when it comes to creating new spells? Like it doesnt help at all with having any kind of understanding for Mathilde on how to do any of the parts of the spell independantly?
All she got out of that was how to cast the spell in a rote fashion?
Well, if we want to break his spirit as is traditional for Mathildes, we have to start moving on that, because we have a lot less time. Sadly we can't tell part of the information is from a Skaven source.Heh. Broad strokes.
Mathilde sends a note- "I'm planning to get world-class mercenary support, a Karak Eight Peaks Guild-trained blacksmith who also is the Loremasters' chief researcher, a devote of the Order of the Pick multi-environment combatant, and a powerful cavalry force that should be able to keep pace running with the wagons. Well, more loping along than galloping, really."
I'm sure they're reacting in delight as we bring in every traditional Dawis' favourite allies, Elf Dragonriders, Umgi Zhufokri and Wolf-riders.
I'm just sad we never pushed the halfling spider cavalry. The list is missing spider riders.
It does make sense though. I mean people are not tweaking spells left and right, there has to be a reason for that.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Like im not expecting it to suddenly become remotely easy or trivial. I was hoping for more understanding than none at all though which is the impression i have right now.
If learning battle magic genuinely provides no insights into magic at all then im significantly soured on the idea of learning any more and think we should just do spell creation instead.
If learning battle magic genuinely provides no insights into magic at all then im significantly soured on the idea of learning any more and think we should just do spell creation instead.
We just learned how to cause a localized temporal anomaly. We can tinker around with it later!
Last edited:
I'm really uncomfortable with this post. It reminds me of the wheedling for masteries back in the day. It's basically demanding more after we already got what we wanted. And yes, it definitely reads entitled ("So we get nothing", "All she got", "It doesn't help at all") and demanding, especially since Boney has already said no. I assume that's not the intention, but it's the way it reads.
Incidentally, Boney has said that Mathilde needs to develop her own spells if she wants to progress her understanding further (get the next magic plus).
Which means the elves might actually have a point with "Lord Magisters are Graduates". You get to magic 7 by learning all the spells (and a staff), but that's all known stuff. That would be like a Master's degree. A Phd means doing your own research and moving knowledge ahead, even if only a little. In this case, inventing new spells.
Last edited:
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
If you think im demanding extras youve completely missed the point of my post and i dont really know where to begin correcting that but okay if it makes you feel better feel free to beat up straw SSS.
I was expecting that learning Battle Magic spells gave Mathilde more insight into her wind as she learns new methods of manipulating reality. This isnt a case of demanding more but having different expectations on what the actions we took actually meant and then being disapointed that beyond the spell its self Mathilde hasnt if i understood BoneyM correctly gained another Ulgu lego to build enchantments or spells with in the future.
A big part of why i pushed for both the coin and Melkoth was that i was hoping for more than a purely rote spell casting that she would have some insight to the method involved.
Obviously my expectation turns out to be wrong.
I would argue that if inventing new spells and codifying them doesn't give the magisters learning them anything other than a rote way to perform the spell you are not by any measure increasing the knowledge of the grey college.
Giving them another tool, yes but in the vein of giving some one a gun they can shoot you arent providing any information on how to machine that gun and i rather hoped that learning the spell would implicitly help understanding the mechanisms involved given how tied together magic is with personal understanding.
I was expecting that learning Battle Magic spells gave Mathilde more insight into her wind as she learns new methods of manipulating reality. This isnt a case of demanding more but having different expectations on what the actions we took actually meant and then being disapointed that beyond the spell its self Mathilde hasnt if i understood BoneyM correctly gained another Ulgu lego to build enchantments or spells with in the future.
A big part of why i pushed for both the coin and Melkoth was that i was hoping for more than a purely rote spell casting that she would have some insight to the method involved.
Obviously my expectation turns out to be wrong.
I would argue that if inventing new spells and codifying them doesn't give the magisters learning them anything other than a rote way to perform the spell you are not by any measure increasing the knowledge of the grey college.
Giving them another tool, yes but in the vein of giving some one a gun they can shoot you arent providing any information on how to machine that gun and i rather hoped that learning the spell would implicitly help understanding the mechanisms involved given how tied together magic is with personal understanding.
Last edited:
"All she got" was how to cast a powerful Battle Magic spell. That is sufficient reward in and of itself.
They effectively come pre-compiled. But wait for the second half of the turn before you start the Melkoth cost benefit analysis.
Last edited:
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This. What was special about our deal with Feldman was that we got the "source code" for Gehenna's Golden Hounds, something which even Gold Battle Wizards don't normally get and allows for us to try and adapt it to Ulgu.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
You know how people can multiple reasons for taking an action, because they think that there might be secondary and tertiary benefits?
The Primary: Learning battle magic! Yes awesome cool.
The Secondary: Insight into magical spell structures and more understanding of how to use Ulgu in general, that could help with spell creation, enchantment and simply having more knowledge on magic to understand what your windsight is showing you.
The Tertiary: Making contact with Melkoth again and thereby forging more connections within the Grey college hierarchy for political purposes.
I don't think it's unreasonable to make plans that are trying to encapsulate more than just the first layer of consequence.
Inventing spells does produce more knowledge, that's the point. Just learning more and more existing ones does not. We've reached the point where we understand pretty much all the principles they work on. Mathilde wasn't surprised Ulgu can fuck with time, or had any particular issues getting the effect working, it was a problem of doing it safely, consistently and robustly.
The difference between learning existing spells and making new ones is like the difference between understanding a theorem of number theory and proofing a new one.
Hmm, I rather like that metaphor. Less complex theorems might have less impressive results, but they're also often more generally useful. And making a theorem that works across multiple fields of math is both super hard and very impressive.
Which poses the question: What Maths correspond to what Wind? Some thoughts:
Ulgu is fuzzy logic, because that's very concerned with truth and blurring the line.
Hysh is regular logic, where truth is an absolute and things are pure. And if you convert something to conjunctive normal form, you can have a ton of people with very little knowledge evaluate the subclauses.
I can't really think of any goods ones for the rest.
Mate, the issue was your phrasing. You can hope all you want, and you can be disappointed, but you shouldn't demand (which includes wielding your dissapointment like a cudgel).
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I think you are wrong and you are implicitly contradicting word of god.
If the end result of spell creation is a compiled 'spell' then grey college knowledge wasnt increased, if a paper were written about the process of creating that spell you might increase the techniques available and advance their knowledge/skill base but from everything weve been told magic is to personal for that to happen.
Spell creation grants new tools in a use case sense but absolutely not in a technique/knowledge base sense. At least for any one other than the person that created the spell.
If the end result of spell creation is a compiled 'spell' then grey college knowledge wasnt increased, if a paper were written about the process of creating that spell you might increase the techniques available and advance their knowledge/skill base but from everything weve been told magic is to personal for that to happen.
Spell creation grants new tools in a use case sense but absolutely not in a technique/knowledge base sense. At least for any one other than the person that created the spell.
- Location
- Utrecht
Maybe expand it to physics/other sciences? would be easier for the non mathematicians in here to contribute
. High level maths makess my head hurtShysh > Entropy
Chamon > Nuclear
Aqshy > Thermodynamics, and how to tell it to go cry in a corner...
To extend the compiled code metaphor further, it's however possible (if you know what you're doing) to disassemble the package and look under the hood. Just don't try to do it in the first few months after learning how to program.
You'll just go crosseyed/blow something up. We're missing a trait to be able to get the insight that Melkoth has.
That's like trying to look under the hood of CPython, but not knowing enough C. Or knowing just enough C to read the code and write your own toy project, but not enough to handle code of that complexity yet. (Yes, i'm speaking from experience ;P)
Last edited: