Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[picklepikkl]

We've actively got a trait that gives us penalties if there are Sigmarites in institutions we control.

Admittedly, hired mercenaries aren't much of an "institution", but it's rather indicative of Mathilde's issues extending further than just personal distaste for the god.

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In addition to this:

@BoneyM What are the Dawi's thoughts of recruiting Priests of Shallya (on Belegar's credit, as one of the sponsors of the expedition) for the purpose of having some healers on the expedition? Do the Dawi have issues with hiring Shallyan priests to serve as healers in this expedition, and would rather have Valayan Priests instead?

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Umgi Gods on a Dawi Expedition would be an immensely tough sell. A fair few Rangers know first aid, and Dwarves are naturally hardy.

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For all that the thread has been enthusiastic about recruiting war-priests for the expedition, it seems like it might be harder to convince the dwarves. And while there's a similar ingrained distrust of wizards, of course, the chief difference is that we are, ourself, a wizard and can take responsibility for the wizards on the mission, which works because we're a Dwarf-friend who can be trusted to deal with things acceptably if issues arise. No such guarantee exists if we bring priests on board.

 

[13th Bee]

We've actively got a trait that gives us penalties if there are Sigmarites in institutions we control.

Admittedly, hired mercenaries aren't much of an "institution", but it's rather indicative of Mathilde's issues extending further than just personal distaste for the god, and I'd expect that to come up in the narrative.

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There's a reason I favor socialing Kasimir some, since it gives us a decent justification to buy off that negative trait at some point.

 

[ReImagined]

Mathilde's problem with Sigmarite Priests is that they depend on Sigmar.
Which Mathilde does not consider dependable.

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We've actively got a trait that gives us penalties if there are Sigmarites in institutions we control.

Admittedly, hired mercenaries aren't much of an "institution", but it's rather indicative of Mathilde's issues extending further than just personal distaste for the god, and I'd expect that to come up in the narrative.

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Her grudge is against Sigmar, not Sigmarites.

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She might not want to rely on Sigmarite priests, but I think she'd be able to work with them.

Edit:

Disdain for Sigmar: Abelhelm Van Hal died abandoned by Sigmar. You intend to return the favour. +1 Piety due to renewed faith in other gods, will not let Sigmarism flourish in institutions she controls - penalty to institutional actions unless worship of another god is instituted.

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I believe the penalty refers to the organization being overtly Sigmarite. Given that this is a dwarven expedition, we should be fine.

 

[Valmond]

There's a reason I favor socialing Kasimir some, since it gives us a decent justification to buy off that negative trait at some point.

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We had the option previously, people voted otherwise for various reasons.
I suspect it would not change in the future.

 

[veekie]

I believe the penalty refers to the organization being overtly Sigmarite. Given that this is a dwarven expedition, we should be fine.

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Wouldn't be much of a penalty if it was. Mathilde actively suffers penalties while having openly Sigmarite subordinates unless she converts them or gets rid of them. If she hires mercenaries she'd be de-facto in charge and...fucking around with penalties in the Chaos Waste seems a really bad plan.

 

[Neptune]

[x] Plan Last Chance for Study v2
[X] Plan AV Enchantment and Research and EIC Ciphers

 

[Parzival95]

I don't see why we even need Sigmarite priests. Just take a recruiting action specifically for the light college instead. Anti-demon, healing, damage, it's good enough.

 

[DragonParadox]

There's a reason I favor socialing Kasimir some, since it gives us a decent justification to buy off that negative trait at some point.

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It will never get off the ground, in a choice between new and interesting vistas an more Sigmarites the former will always win. Canon Warhammer has a surfeit of all things Sigmar

 

[Valmond]

I hoped we could drop Mathilde's Sigmar issues, not because i care about Sigmar or want to spend time with Sigmarites, but because i felt it would have been a good growing up moment, realizing that shit happens and being angry that one person was not saved when we know that gods are limited and not all powerful, sometimes shit happens.
Thread decided otherwise.

Not really important here though, as dwarves would not appreciate umgi gods getting involved anyway.

 

[LightLan]

It will never get off the ground, in a choice between new and interesting vistas an more Sigmarites the former will always win. Canon Warhammer has a surfeit of all things Sigmar

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Kasimir is the rare intersection of Sigmar and someone Mathilde likes and trusts.
I also believe Kasimir is the only one aware of Mathilde's opinion on Sigmar, which makes their discussions interesting.

Mathilde is very good at poker-face with most people.

 

[DragonParadox]

Kasimir is the rare intersection of Sigmar and someone Mathilde likes and trusts.
I also believe Kasimir is the only one aware of Mathilde's opinion on Sigmar, which makes their discussions interesting.

Mathilde is very good at poker-face with most people.

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I did not mean the Kasimir part, that might get voted on, more the giving up on an novel trait for the sake of not hating Sigmar. I can't see that happening.

 

[Rafin]

@BoneyM If we pay for it out of pocket, can we hire a Karak Azul Runesmith for the expedition through the [Dwarf] Purchase action instead of using AP?

"Good Dwarf," Gotri says. "Was a rising star before he married a Clanless, and even now he's too good for Zhufbar to completely cut ties."

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In Zhufbar you lose your Clan status for marrying a Clanless woman, not the other way around? That's much worse than I thought. That's one step away from being an Untouchable caste.
If this kind of thinking is more widely spread in the Karaz Ankor then it might well be that before K8P there were next to no Clan Dwarves with Clanless ancestors for a long time.

I'm curious how Huzkul treats new Clanless immigrants. Do they remember the hardships of their origins and make adoption easier than the average Dawi Clan? Or are they the type to be proud of their achievement and trying to distance themselves from their unsavory past as much as possible?

I'd hope that would go without saying, but while we're being exhaustive, no Skaven either.

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There are know Skaven mercenary bands for hire to non-Skaven? How does that even work?

Yes, but not that much, since they won't get as good results as one made specifically for the Wizard that ends up with it.

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The previous dedicated staff turner studied each recipient in depth?

Tichi-Huichi Riders

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How does Mathilde even know about their existence and usefulness?

 

[NSMS]

I don't see why we even need Sigmarite priests. Just take a recruiting action specifically for the light college instead. Anti-demon, healing, damage, it's good enough.

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The main concern with that is there's a good chance we'd end up with journey(wo)men if we aim for general recruitment, and if you look at how the ducklings did when they first arrived at K8P... well, they weren't exactly impressive. Certainly not prepared for a trip to the wastes.

 

[LightLan]

I did not mean the Kasimir part, that might get voted on, more the giving up on an novel trait for the sake of not hating Sigmar. I can't see that happening.

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Ah, I misread that.
And yes, we are very unlikely to ever get rid of that trait on a trait vote.
But a vote is not the only way to change a trait. Practical changed to Laconic over a couple of crits while writing papers.
It'd make sense for the trait to change if Mathilde ever happened upon a competent Sigmarite.
Uhm... Forget it, it's never going to happen

 

[Rafin]

[X] Plan Redshirt v2

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Why would we want to bring our two Golden boys to this? They both don't seem to be combat specialists. Also, bringing someone purely reliant on Gold windsight to the Chaos Wastes seems risky.

I'm okay with any of the K8P wizards to decide to tag along out of their own initiative and would hope that Mathilde informs them all what the expedition is about, but trying to convince any of them seems like a bad idea.

Also, regarding the Ice Witches, shouldn't there be something regarding our hope to delay the expedition?

Lastly, we are cutting it really close with the vault coins if we skip it this turn again. We are planning to do lots of scouting after all.

 

[DragonParadox]

Ah, I misread that.
And yes, we are very unlikely to ever get rid of that trait on a trait vote.
But a vote is not the only way to change a trait. Practical changed to Laconic over a couple of crits while writing papers.
It'd make sense for the trait to change if Mathilde ever happened upon a competent Sigmarite.
Uhm... Forget it, it's never going to happen

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Maybe if we spend AP on it, social parts have no mechanical effect.

 

[LightLan]

Why would we want to bring our two Golden boys to this? They both don't seem to be combat specialists. Also, bringing someone purely reliant on Gold windsight to the Chaos Wastes seems risky.

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Johann is a very good addition to the expedition.
He is a terrifying close combat combatant and an alright infiltrator.
His windsight is even more effective in the Chaos Wastes than outside it.

Max is an adequate if not very exception long range combatant and useful if there's problem with equipment.

also they won't be forced to go. This is outside their job descriptions.

 

[NSMS]

Why would we want to bring our two Golden boys to this? They both don't seem to be combat specialists. Also, bringing someone purely reliant on Gold windsight to the Chaos Wastes seems risky.

I'm okay with any of the K8P wizards to decide to tag along out of their own initiative and would hope that Mathilde informs them all what the expedition is about, but trying to convince any of them seems like a bad idea.

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I actually asked about Johann w.r.t. windsight earlier, and BoneyM says he'll be fine. Better than that, actually- he'll be able to see ever better in the wastes than he could normally. As for bringing them along, Johann very much is a combat wizard (a punch wizard, specifically) and Max has very good ranged support skills. Plus, we know them, and know we can work well with them.

Also, regarding the Ice Witches, shouldn't there be something regarding our hope to delay the expedition?

Lastly, we are cutting it really close with the vault coins if we skip it this turn again. We are planning to do lots of scouting after all.

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With the ice witches, I will vote against any attempt to make them delay the expedition. It's not our place to dictate when it leaves- and besides, we don't actually know if they can set an arrival date, or if they'll just tell us 'go at X time'.

As for the coins, I personally couldn't care less about them.

 

[Rafin]

[x] Plan Last Chance for Study v2

@TotallyNotEvil Same thing as above regarding the Ice Witches and vault coins. Your plan is still much more palatable to me than the currently winning one.

also they won't be forced to go. This is outside their job descriptions.

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Of course they won't be. But we will still very probably roll our Diplomacy skill either against one of their skills or against a DC. I'd rather they decide on on their own to come or not to come, without us coaxing them.

 

[Valmond]

Johann might work fine as a combatant, but i doubt we are low on those, as a wizard his usefulness might be somewhat less, and as a helper to fix wagons, i suspect dwarves would just go straight to "Fuck no".
Max might, in some ways, be actually more useful, but not necessarily so much i would want to bring him along.

 

[Rafin]

@BoneyM Two more questions:

One is the same as my Runesmith one, but with regards to Wizards. Can we just hire a Wizard to join us for normal CF rates?
The other is regarding the stuff about asking the Ice Witches to facilitate a later start date for the expedition. If it turns out to even be possible, will there be a subvote for that? Because it seems that while everyone wants their involvement, opinions on how they should involve themselves differs. Or I just missed the thread reaching a consensus that manipulating the start date is bad.

 

[picklepikkl]

Why would we want to bring our two Golden boys to this? They both don't seem to be combat specialists. Also, bringing someone purely reliant on Gold windsight to the Chaos Wastes seems risky.

I'm okay with any of the K8P wizards to decide to tag along out of their own initiative and would hope that Mathilde informs them all what the expedition is about, but trying to convince any of them seems like a bad idea.

Also, regarding the Ice Witches, shouldn't there be something regarding our hope to delay the expedition?

Lastly, we are cutting it really close with the vault coins if we skip it this turn again. We are planning to do lots of scouting after all.

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These issues have mostly already been asked and answered, but to summarize:

• Johann is a skilled and superhumanly tough melee combatant who can also boost artillery crews using the spell Trial and Error, boosting our killiness by a meaningful degree. Also, thematically, he's been our adventure buddy a bunch of times and this is another such adventure. I don't ship it, but I do like the team-up. His windsight has been confirmed by Boney to, if anything, work better in a higher-background-magic environment like the Wastes.
• Where Johann is along as a combat specialist, Max is along as support staff. Max is the only wizard we know who is as close to trusted by dwarves as we are: he speaks Khazalid and has the trait Dawongrish, which should help with wizard-dwarf relations. He is a skilled blacksmith who has been training under a dwarf for years and had his work judged acceptable enough to be used by K8P's Throng, which are bona fides the expedition will respect. He can help dwarves with field repairs, wrangle any Journeymanlings we pick up from our College recruitment, and also shoot like a Ranger with his Silver Bolts of Maximilian. Very versatile and useful person to have along.
• I know you have a meta-preference for characters taking initiative, but Boney doesn't really write the quest that way and I think you will be disappointed if you keep hoping for it. He's confirmed that the recruitment action is Mathilde making a pitch to them, to which they'd probably say yes because they're the sort of people who signed up for the K8P expedition in the first place, but to which they have the option of saying no. Remember when we took a Duckling action to weed gardens with the fires of Dwarf Hell with Panoramia and she didn't want to because she's a coward? We got to pick a different action. I think the same thing would happen here.
• With regard to the Ice witches, we shouldn't micromanage Mathilde. Boney will include a subvote if there's call for one.
• We have two turns after this for vault coins, one of which has Overwork available. It's fine.

How does Mathilde even know about their existence and usefulness?

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This has been asked and answered:

They've fought for Barak Varr before, so she could have heard of them. But no, she wouldn't know much about them, including Chaos resistance, their endurance over long distances, or how resistant to cold they are.

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[BurnNote]

[x] Plan Last Chance for Study v2

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

Same thing as above regarding the Ice Witches and vault coins. Your plan is still much more palatable to me than the currently winning one.

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There's a v3 one where the coin goes to recruiting, too.

If it's an option with the ice witches, I figure it's going to be its own vote.

For the coins, it's still like three or four turns away.

 

[Fanhunter696]

I agree that the two golds should come with us to the expedition, BUT we can recruit them next turn and call me romantic but I want to take a look at the Breathing Apparatus whose recovery indirectly kickstarted the complete conquest of K8P before the golds take it...

[X] Plan Last Chance for Study v2

Remember when we took a Duckling action to weed gardens with the fires of Dwarf Hell with Panoramia and she didn't want to because she's a coward? We got to pick a different action. I think the same thing would happen here.

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To be fair with Paranormia... to use the greatest magic superweapon created in several centuries seems to cut the weeds from her garden seems a little overkill...