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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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My view on General of War Fog is that it takes a very unusual confluence of traits for Mathilde to be leading armies. She did here, but this should be a lesson to Belegar that he and Dreng should never both be out of the Karak at the same time. In the other organisations she's part of, the same should apply.

It's cool, but much more niche than most others.
 
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Fnx002 said:
@BoneyM
Trait Idea: The Odds Ever in Your Favor, as has been seen the actions of others tend to be to your benefit, +10 bonus to background rolls
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Traits are for Mathilde's character and abilities, not reality bending itself around her.

Oshha said:
@BoneyM Can you provide some clarification on how deep Mathilde's disdain for Sigmar goes and how far she would go to discourage his worship? It is just not allowing Sigmar to be the main god of an organisation or would she actively try to bar Sigmarites or otherwise discriminate against worshippers of Sigmar in her organisations?
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It's about institutional Sigmar worship taking hold in organizations she controls, not individual worshippers.

Valmond said:
Mathilde can but heads over religious opinions without being a bigot.
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I'm very uncomfortable with how freely you're throwing around loaded terms like this. Please step away from this argument.
 
Assassin is nice but not critical outside of certain factions that are very leader dependent. It'd be nigh useless against Dark Elves for instance.

General of Fog always applies in any kind of large scale military action. Better still, it's an upgrade of a Spell Creation Trait, so it'll likely make building stuff keying off of it easier. Want that Fog of War spell people have been talking about? This might be a prerequisite.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Like, to be clear, Mathilde eventually butting heads with Reiner Starke on account of conflicting religious opinions is something I'm actively looking forward to.

Spending a limited reward to remove a future interesting plot point is basically the opposite of what I want from all this.
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It would also be more meaningful to lose the trait later in a situation where we meaningfully are forced to interact with Sigmarites and Mathilde can come to emotional terms with how Sigmar in particular failed someone important to her, but how that maybe isn't enough to discount his worship completely. Right now, narratively speaking, it's just sort of fading away.
 
uju32 said:
From my reading of that?
We have a Sigmarite penalty right now. Not just Sigmar, but his followers. If we're not actively attempting to undermine him, we're suffering a malus.
Including important internal security institutions like the Witch Hunters, and Sigmar-affillated military orders.

This is a pretty bad idea in general for an Imperial spymaster who operates in and around the Empire, and an even worse one for one of the owners of the EIC as it expands.
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Oh dang yeah the Witch Hunters. That's gonna suck, if it works out that way, as it might mean difficulties with getting along with the Empire's religious investigators into what goes bump in the night. =/
Luminous said:
Yep, adding '-ed' to the end means that the noun is in a verb form and is in the past tense.
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It says something that even after years of writing; I still have no idea what some of those words mean. :p
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Yeah it's the sort of thing where you just sorta learn the rules of words and use them in day to day life, but could not for the life of you answer specifics or use proper terminology to explain it if asked. =/ ... Also, I'm bad at writing so I probably worded that in a confusing way. Especially since I myself was having trouble properly getting it out.

In this case, what it means is: "Voyage" is a noun, and means "a long journey involving travel by sea or in space." It can be a verb, like thus:
go on a long journey, typically by sea or in space.
"he has voyaged through places like Venezuela and Peru"

Past tense means it would be... "voyaged" or "has voyaged", I guess.

That explains what "use it's verb form" and "past tense" would mean.

However, I might not have been correct in assuming that that's what the Dwarf "-ked" thing meant to do, so. So while I described what my words meant (hopefully! I'm not very good at this) I dunno if that's what the implied meaning of the Khazalid word is. :V
veekie said:
So in plain english wouldn't it be "Silver Voyager"
Drek is a great distance, modified as Completed, so its not a Wanderer, its a Voyage, with a start and an ending.
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Silver Voyager is a cool name, yeah.

Our title is... it's like... like being called an Argonaut. We're like an Argonaut of the adventure of Karak Eight Peaks. Azril-naut? Azrilnaut?
 
Redshirt Army said:
Like, to be clear, Mathilde eventually butting heads with Reiner Starke on account of conflicting religious opinions is something I'm actively looking forward to.
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Ooooh. Definitely looking forward to that though still neutral on removing the trait. Reiner Starke definitely sounds like the kind of person Polythiest would still make us dislike, so I'm happy either way.
 
I would personally like to get modification to the Disdain for Sigmar trait then just removing it. We can get rid of the bad bits of it whilst keeping the good bits.

And frankly, when Mathilde butts head with Sigmarites, I would rather it be for good and valid reasons rather than Mathilde being a petty git because someone close to her wasn't saved by literal divine intervention. I would like some actual valid basis to oppose Sigmarites that go too far than doing it over a petty, irrational grudge.

[ ] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
 
I want Mathilde to get rid of her hatred of Sigmar because it's irrational and wrong-headed. You can argue costs and benefits and maybe getting rid of it doesn't stack up on that front, but as long as the trait remains it makes her a lesser person.
 
Alectai said:
Assassin is nice but not critical outside of certain factions that are very leader dependent. It'd be nigh useless against Dark Elves for instance.

General of Fog always applies in any kind of large scale military action. Better still, it's an upgrade of a Spell Creation Trait, so it'll likely make building stuff keying off of it easier. Want that Fog of War spell people have been talking about? This might be a prerequisite.
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Assassin would be incredible against dark elves on a strategic level, because they don't share information with each other, so if you knock out a leader, their subordinates will have massive challenges knowing what the strategy is. Dark elf leaders are also hard targets that are significant enemy assets in their own right, and are worth eliminating on that basis alone.

General of War applies when Mathilde is leading an army. She should almost never be leading an army. She should be assassinating enemies all the time.
 
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Garlak said:
Oh dang yeah the Witch Hunters. That's gonna suck, if it works out that way, as it might mean difficulties with getting along with the Empire's religious investigators into what goes bump in the night. =/
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No. We have word of BoneyM just above your post. It would give us malus' to running a Sigmarite Witchhunter Group (not all witchhunter groups are sigmarite mind you) not for interacting with sigmarites or witchhunters.
 
I actively want to keep the disdain for Sigmar. It's great for plot hooks.

A character with no narrative flaws is boring, also the other options in personal are way more interesting, Xeno-affinity looks amazing. Polyglot would be a great fit with that allowing Mathilde to acclimatise linguistically and pick up languages for any where she ends up very quickly which will also be crazy useful given we're going to want to learn Anoqeyan and probably Cathayan so those will save a lot of time and allow Mathilde to socially blend in a lot better.

I'm also pretty interested in

[ ] Battle: Assassin
New Trait: Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
[ ] Battle: Thief trait of some sort

[ ] Battle: Waaaghbane upgrade

The thief trait to allow us to raid significantly better for loot could be amazing. We have Drazh just across from us and we could easily go invisible and raid into it, or the assassin trait to absolutely destroy Greenskin leadership in Drazh in preparation for a clear out.

I will admit i'm undecided between Collegiate and Polyglot right now though.



Alectai said:
Assassin is nice but not critical outside of certain factions that are very leader dependent. It'd be nigh useless against Dark Elves for instance.
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Dark Elf leadership is very individualistic, they don't share ideas or plans between each other as Subordinates are potential rivals. Delfs are probably the closest faction to the skaven in terms of how much internal strife they have.
 
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BoneyM said:
I'm very uncomfortable with how freely you're throwing around loaded terms like this. Please step away from this argument.
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Okay, I am confused about this. Isn't the Disdain for Sigmar trait supposed to make Mathilde bigoted towards Sigmarites as a character flaw? Because I always read it as that since we first got it and I'm wondering if I got your intentions regarding that wrong.
 
I'm going to flip the argument a bit from focusing on what we could keep to what we could gain-i.e. a greater connection to the dwarf gods.

It is something likely to be more unique than the sigmar trait, which has repeatedly shown up as an option, it is something that will connect us more to people we are actively working with and friends with, and it is a great narrative to decide to worship them after using their power to burn half a million greenskins.
 
Alratan said:
My view on General of War is that it takes a very unusual confluence of traits for Mathilde to be leading armies. She did here, but this should be a lesson to Belegar that he and Dreng should never both be out of the Karak at the same time. In the other organisations she's part of, the same should apply.
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This is my issue as well, maybe it'll be more common to lead a detachment now that we're a thane?

Oshha said:
And frankly, when Mathilde butts head with Sigmarites, I would rather it be for good and valid reasons rather than Mathilde being a petty git because someone close to her wasn't saved by literal divine intervention. I would like some actual valid basis to oppose Sigmarites that go too far than doing it over a petty, irrational grudge.
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My view was that that act was only the climax that solidified the trait, all the Sigmarite nonsense that came before in her career as spymaster were the building blocks.
 
Lupercal said:
No. We have word of BoneyM just above your post. It would give us malus' to running a Sigmarite Witchhunter Group (not all witchhunter groups are sigmarite mind you) not for interacting with sigmarites or witchhunters.
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Yup in case people missed it

BoneyM said:
It's about institutional Sigmar worship taking hold in organizations she controls, not individual worshippers.
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We have no trouble with individual sigmarites.
We have no trouble with individual sigmarites in our organisation
We have trouble with formalized, institutional worship in organisations we control. Think Patron dieties and stuff like that.

The trait is a lot less extreme than some people tried to portray it as.
 
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Oshha said:
Okay, I am confused about this. Isn't the Disdain for Sigmar trait supposed to make Mathilde bigoted towards Sigmarites as a character flaw? Because I always read it as that since we first got it and I'm wondering if I got your intentions regarding that wrong.
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No, that's not what it's for. It just means that when we control an organization, we don't want it to be a Sigmar organization, because Sigmar won't help them and we shouldn't encourage him any.

Think of it like a National Flag or Bird or something. We don't care what they do in their free time, but we're not including him in the company motto.
 
Oshha said:
Okay, I am confused about this. Isn't the Disdain for Sigmar trait supposed to make Mathilde bigoted towards Sigmarites as a character flaw? Because I always read it as that since we first got it and I'm wondering if I got your intentions regarding that wrong.
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It's disdain for Sigmar not Sigmarites. She dislikes the god, like the actual Aetheryc entity that grants spells, her opinion of Sigmarites is more in line with what we saw with Kazimir. She pities him for serving in her eyes an unworthy god.
 
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SurpriseMe said:
I'm going to flip the argument a bit from focusing on what we could keep to what we could gain-i.e. a greater connection to the dwarf gods.

It is something likely to be more unique than the sigmar trait, which has repeatedly shown up as an option, it is something that will connect us more to people we are actively working with and friends with, and it is a great narrative to decide to worship them after using their power to burn half a million greenskins.
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I'm really rooting for the Xeno-affinity. It's like Polyglot for Diplomacy skills instead of languages. That's pretty damn useful.
 
Oshha said:
Okay, I am confused about this. Isn't the Disdain for Sigmar trait supposed to make Mathilde bigoted towards Sigmarites as a character flaw? Because I always read it as that since we first got it and I'm wondering if I got your intentions regarding that wrong.
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No, it came from seeing a Sigmarite who we really respected, Abelhelm, being abandoned in his time of need by Sigmar. We disdain Sigmar the God, not people who follow Sigmar. So we don't like our organizations giving him praise, because that means we are in some ways honoring him, when we don't want to.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
My view was that that act was only the climax that solidified the trait, all the Sigmarite nonsense that came before in her Career as spymaster was the building blocks.
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I personally viewed that as retroactive justification for her grudge. She decided to disdain Sigmar for failing to save Van Hal and then used her previous grievances to justify it. Mainly because I didn't see her building up to a trait like that and it feel like she only got it because of Van Hal's death.
 
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