Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[King Arthur]

I believe my comment was along the lines of 'yes, but at the scale of entire units it'd be battle magic'.

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This is a response to a real old post, but I had a question about it.

If scaling a spell up so it effects entire units turns it into Battle Magic ... is the reverse true? Can we scale down Battle Magic, take spells that usually effect entire units and decrease the scale so it only effects a single person, turning it into a less dangerou spells, even if it only reduces it to Fiendishly Complex levels?

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

The duel takes place with the Staff of Volans between the duellists, and because having it is such an advantage, one of them getting their hands on it usually results in the other surrendering. Though some have died in the duels, tradition dictates that it's to surrender or incapacitation. The job they're fighting for is managing the Colleges, and that becomes significantly harder if you kill off your subordinates.

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I'm guessing that the Staff of Volans is the legendary +2 Magic Staff we can't make if its an item that makes most elite lord wizard go 'welp, I lost' if the other guy grabs it.

 

[fictionfan]

It's always something in the world of Warhammer, isn't it?

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No remember that time it actually was just wild animals?

 

[Boney]

On the first paragrpah, but considering the themes and Mathilde's intrigue and educational background, would
" Otto von Bitternach's face turns calculating
" Otto von Bitternach's face holds a calculating expression"

Work better? It is more analytical sounding from the perspective of the reader, and more directly implies that that he is wearing a mask.

I dunno. Just thinking of silly things bro.
...unless?

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It is a bit clunky. I've changed 'face' to 'expression'.

This is a response to a real old post, but I had a question about it.

If scaling a spell up so it effects entire units turns it into Battle Magic ... is the reverse true? Can we scale down Battle Magic, take spells that usually effect entire units and decrease the scale so it only effects a single person, turning it into a less dangerou spells, even if it only reduces it to Fiendishly Complex levels?

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Potentially, but the process of getting there does mean experimenting with Battle Magic. Most people willing to do so aim to create new types of Battle Magic, rather than more modest and accessible spells.

 

[Alliterate]

Abelhelm was an ex-Witch Hunter, which I think is supposed to have a high piety score in general. And he as an individual was pretty chill.

Well, he also shot a guy in the head at the conference table like he was some kind of frickin' mafia don. But yeah, he was pretty chill.

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Abel had a middling piety even before it took several hits from the ineptitude of the (spiritual) leadership of the Empire, even as Mathilde's faith grew.
Hmm. Similar to Belegar.
Hmm.

I do think that Mathilde would scoff at the idea of her being a fanatic.
Ranald is, like, her oldest and most annoying friend, but he is not immune from criticism in her mind.

 

[Mopman43]

Abel had a middling piety even before it took several hits from the ineptitude of the (spiritual) leadership of the Empire, even as Mathilde's faith grew.
Hmm. Similar to Belegar.
Hmm.

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Mathilde's like a Vampire, except she leeches Piety. Johann will be questioning his vision within the year.

 

[Aranfan]

I'm guessing that the Staff of Volans is the legendary +2 Magic Staff we can't make if its an item that makes most elite lord wizard go 'welp, I lost' if the other guy grabs it.

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Yep. Tabletop 8th ed, +2 to rolls to cast a spell, but not to dispelling.

 

[deathofrats0808]

I'm guessing that the Staff of Volans is the legendary +2 Magic Staff we can't make if its an item that makes most elite lord wizard go 'welp, I lost' if the other guy grabs it.

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Let me put it this way. The Staff of Volans, on the TT gives a flat +2 to all casting. That's something like 4 magic in this system I believe.

 

[Erandil]

How do these kinds of duels usually end? Is one of the two dying a common result or is killing one if the most powerful assets of the Empire as frowned upon as it should be, with even proud Supreme Patriarchs knowing to bow out rather than risk that?

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Death should be at least somewhat common because in regards to Balthasar Gelt ascension it is mentioned that he let his opponent live due to not wanting to rob the empire of such a great wizard and won significant respect for that deed which seems unlikely to have been the case if the standard modus operandi was to let them live, at least in my eyes.

 

[Kornet]

Yep. Tabletop 8th ed, +2 to rolls to cast a spell, but not to dispelling.

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I think tabletop 2 is worth quite a bit more than quest 2.

 

[Boney]

I'm guessing that the Staff of Volans is the legendary +2 Magic Staff we can't make if its an item that makes most elite lord wizard go 'welp, I lost' if the other guy grabs it.

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It increases power considerably, which is big, and it does so without additional risk to the Wizard, which is huge.

 

[Mopman43]

Death should be at least somewhat common because in regards to Balthasar Gelt ascension it is mentioned that he let his opponent live due to not wanting to rob the empire of such a great wizard and won significant respect for that deed which seems unlikely to have been the case if the standard modus operandi was to let them live, at least in my eyes.

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I think that bit involved "multiplying reality by Gelt's melodrama", in Boney's words.

 

[Erandil]

I think that bit involved "multiplying reality by Gelt's melodrama", in Boney's words.

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It has been years since I read the primary sources but I don't think they were from his perspective so that really shouldn't apply here. I mean yes the whole " great wizard" part is Gelt being Gelt but that isn't the important thing, it is that letting the opposition live resulting in notable prestige that suggest that this is far from the standard procedure.

 

[Alliterate]

It increases power considerably, which is big, and it does so without additional risk to the Wizard, which is huge.

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Now you've done it.
InB4 repeated thread questions on "how much more Enchantment training do we need before Mathilde can make her own? What happens if we Crit the roll?"

 

[Boney]

It has been years since I read the primary sources but I don't think they were from his perspective so that really shouldn't apply here. I mean yes the whole " great wizard" part is Gelt being Gelt but that isn't the important thing, it is that letting the opposition live resulting in notable prestige that suggest that this is far from the standard procedure.

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8th edition Empire army book says "tradition demands that the duel is not fought to the death".

 

[deathofrats0808]

Now you've done it.
InB4 repeated thread questions on "how much more Enchantment training do we need before Mathilde can make her own?"

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I mean, the guy who created it was the second best Wizard the Empire had, and appears to have been a pretty serious enchanter. The creation of the Staff might be where the Bright Order's staff turning tradition comes from.

 

[Alliterate]

I mean, the guy who created it was the second best Wizard the Empire had, and appears to have been a pretty serious enchanter. The creation of the Staff might be where the Bright Order's staff turning tradition comes from.

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So... you're saying two classes?

 

[NexusEye]

They did nab some fire-inclined Elementalists, but yes, the Bright Order has a pretty good claim to be the 'purest' Teclisean College. Their first Magister Patriarch was a former Greatsword so a lot of their cultural trappings come from the Imperial military.

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So Golds were alchemists, Jades were druids, Ambers shamans, the Lights got philosophers and (non-chaotic) cultists*, Brights were mostly whole-cloth, but what about the other colleges? The Amethysts probably came from the Cult of Morr, but that leaves the Celestials and the Greys***.


*Philosophy, mystery, and religion mixed together... the closest real world equivalents that I can think of would be IRL secret societies such the Illuminati**,Aleister Crowley's A∴A∴, or the Freemasons.

**The one from the 18th century, not the conspiracy one.

***Unless you already answered that at some point and I just missed it, in which case ignore me.

 

[Alliterate]

Greys per Boney drew on Hedge Witches and petty Illusionists and the like.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Now you've done it.
InB4 repeated thread questions on "how much more Enchantment training do we need before Mathilde can make her own? What happens if we Crit the roll?"

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just be as good as volans :4head:

how hard could it possibly be to match teclis's prized pupil?

we'll have it licked in another six months, no doubt

 

[Boney]

Now you've done it.
InB4 repeated thread questions on "how much more Enchantment training do we need before Mathilde can make her own? What happens if we Crit the roll?"

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"Gods are for chumps because they'd need me more than I'd need them." -Volans

 

[ChronOblivion]

Otto von Bitternach's face turns calculating as he considers that. "A potent threat to be able to level," he muses, "and if matters do escalate, even Ulthuan would have to think twice before engaging with the combined navies of the Empire and Barak Varr. The First is hemmed in here, but if we had the Second go find some Reavers or something to loudly clash against, they would have to either let our fleets combine or give us a credible charge against them of aiding and abetting piracy and the Ruinous Powers, which could peel off Ulthuan, or it might bring in Kislev and Bretonnia..." He stares intensely down at the ivory button representing Marienburg before seeming to remember your presence. "The Emperor's thanks for providing your insight on the matter. Pass on his regards to King Belegar."

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Loved this paragraph, a grandmaster diplomancer spinning this new information into the future and determining a sequence of moves to apply enough soft pressure to ensure that his pieces are poised to deliver the actual strike later.

The only other oddity is reports from Talabecland that there's been a fairly significant increase in the worship of Karnos, the local God of the Hunt. Unusual, but as he's not proscribed and seems relatively harmless, it's probably not anything to worry about.

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Okay, this was written ominously, and I see people reacting, but the can't quite tell what the deal is. So this guy is an Elven god or something?

All the adults - including you and Johann, though a number of Dwarves hinted that you might be better off sticking to the shallower tunnels - are to strike the earth and genuinely discover metal for yourself. Perhaps not the most romantic setting, but that might just be a matter of perspective - it is a religious obligation to leave your fellow miners be unless they're actively threatened by enemies or cave-ins, even if the sounds coming out of their side branch sound nothing like metal on stone. It's apparently an unspoken tradition for courting couples to venture into the mines together and return with a suspicious lack of ore.

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... To be honest, I feel like we're missing a snippet where Mathilde transitions into thinking about romance, and coming to some interesting conclusions. Like that Panoramia who is actually kinda cute now that she thinks of it, or the golden hunk Johann whose determination impresses even her. Just from the narrative itself, I wouldn't have picked up any interest in romance or dating, unless I'm forgetting something.

So, outside of my bias's. I'm not really feeling the chemistry.

this whole thing felt more like two buddies on a bonding trip camping or paintball or something. no real spark.

Johann is her bro, but not really her dude.

ya get me?

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I getya.

(Side note, this thread got a billion percent quippier in the last few hours, I got several genuine laughs out of the previous seven pages)

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

So Golds were alchemists, Jades were druids, Ambers shamans, the Lights got philosophers and (non-chaotic) cultists*, Brights were mostly whole-cloth, but what about the other colleges? The Amethysts probably came from the Cult of Morr, but that leaves the Celestials and the Greys***.


*Philosophy, mystery, and religion mixed together... the closest real world equivalents that I can think of would be IRL secret societies such the Illuminati**,Aleister Crowley's A∴A∴, or the Freemasons.

**The one from the 18th century, not the conspiracy one.

***Unless you already answered that at some point and I just missed it, in which case ignore me.

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grey is hedge-folk and circus, and celestials?

 

[Boney]

So Golds were alchemists, Jades were druids, Ambers shamans, the Lights got philosophers and (non-chaotic) cultists*, Brights were mostly whole-cloth, but what about the other colleges? The Amethysts probably came from the Cult of Morr, but that leaves the Celestials and the Greys***.

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Astrologers and Soothsayers for the former, Hedge Wizards and Illusionists for the latter.

 

[Mopman43]

So this guy is an Elven god or something?

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*Shrugs*

The name was mentioned a few times in Tome of Salvation, but Tome of Salvation generally resists giving hard facts about the gods themselves in favor of info about their worshipers (though this guy was minor enough that he didn't even get that). Might be a human expression of Kournous, Elven god of the hunt, in which case, might be from the Eonir. Or, it might be from something else entirely. Might just be a minor aspect of Taal. Might be nothing at all and Boney just put it in there to freak us out.