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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alliterate said:
K8P (Undumgi) are buying a lot of Imperial goods and luxuries, exclusively sourced and shipped by the EIC and sold in EIC company stores.
Wilhelmina and ourselves will get even more wealthy as more trade opens up, and we are imperial citizens?
'Imperial' is right in the company name, it must benefit the Empire. ;)

And the Black Water-Aver canal only came about because we had the clout to set up the meeting for Wilhelmina to propose it.
(But also what Pickle said about safer trade routes east, on the principle that safer trade routes and flow enriches everyone.)
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In addition, Karak Azul is connected to the rest of civilization through K8P, and they presumably have a glut of metals and weapons, some of which may make their way to the Empire.
 
ReImagined said:
In addition, Karak Azul is connected to the rest of civilization through K8P, and they presumably have a glut of metals and weapons, some of which may make their way to the Empire.
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Indeed, that might be one of the avenues for replacing Estalian/Bretonnian weapon feeds if that vote wins. But it is a longer, more expensive, land based route.
Jrin said:
Really?...the Empire never really offer any official aid, its merely luck he attract our attention plus lots of mercenaries and outcast Knight orders. Yeah no.
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Yeah Yeah. He has been making promises to Imperial Institutions all over the place.
Mostly on the advice of his Loremaster, admittedly, as she indulges a certain affinity for magical superweapons. It's not directly-to-the-Empire as such.
 
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ReImagined said:
In addition, Karak Azul is connected to the rest of civilization through K8P, and they presumably have a glut of metals and weapons, some of which may make their way to the Empire.
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Which lessens the damage loss of overseas trade brings right?

So why are peeps so willing to fighti it out for this canal when the weapons it brings is possibly already being slowly replaced by better dwarven weapons?
 
Jrin said:
Really?...the Empire never really offer any official aid, its merely luck he attract our attention plus lots of mercenaries and outcast Knight orders.
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Uh, remember all those magic towers he had built? The many, many magic towers he had built? (Makes pointing gestures.) He paid for all of that with promises of favors owed more than silver.
 
[ ] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.

Whatever the result of this vote, we need to do this next social turn. We have no idea how far along the canal is. We're about to have either serious military escalation or suffer short-term economic damage as a result of this thing.

This canal is no longer a backburner item and it's affecting world events, so we need to see this thing with our own two eyes.
 
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tho, I've been thinking about it, and the 'trade from the east plan' is going to hit its biggest obstacle soon(ish)

what happens when dwarf controlled trade routes meet the Orgre Tribes in control of cavern guarding.

if not careful, that could be a big problem as Orgre cavern guards are the only group to prove themselves tough enough to make the journey through the badlands with any reliability. (for a given value of the word reliable.)
 
Nurgle said:
Because it is based off what Mathilde thinks the dwarfs will do.
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And why can that not be through trade?
Briefvoice said:
Uh, remember all those magic towers he had built? The many, many magic towers he had built? (Makes pointing gestures.) He paid for all of that with promises of favors owed more than silver.
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This can possibly double up as Favor repayment, and also a way to avoid loss of good dwarven lives.
 
TimEd said:
Which lessens the damage loss of overseas trade brings right?

So why are peeps so willing to fighti it out for this canal when the weapons it brings is possibly already being slowly replaced by better dwarven weapons?
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Prerailway, rivers are an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE cheaper than land based. It is literally cheaper to ship things from Araby to Nuln via water than to cart things via land from Barak Var.
 
TimEd said:
Which lessens the damage loss of overseas trade brings right?

So why are peeps so willing to fighti it out for this canal when the weapons it brings is possibly already being slowly replaced by better dwarven weapons?
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It's still really quite important to the Empire's wellbeing, and because we don't think it will come to a fight in most cases.
 
TimEd said:
Which lessens the damage loss of overseas trade brings right?

So why are peeps so willing to fighti it out for this canal when the weapons it brings is possibly already being slowly replaced by better dwarven weapons?
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Hmmm... that's a good point, I may be going back to neutrality.

Angelform said:
On the subject of a second War Of The Beard

People seem to be under the impression that the War of the Beard/War of Vengeance was fought between Ulthuan and the Karaz Ankor. While this is true in the legal sense it is false in the military sense. Pre-Sundering the Asur had a vast empire. Most of the Old World is covered by 'elven ruins' that were once Asur cities. It was these colonies that bore the brunt of Dwarf vengeance while the elves on Ulthuan were stabbing each other over whether Malekith was an arsehole or a Royal Arsehole.

While the War of Vengence officially ended when the Dwarfs kicked the last loyal elf colonies off the continent the fighting didn't actually stop. While Ulthuan and the Karaz Ankor are not at war various groups of elves have been fighting various groups of Dwarfs on and off ever since.

A conflict in Marienburg cannot trigger a second major war. Even ignoring that minor conflicts happen all the time and that neither side wants it, they simply aren't capable of it.
The Dwarfs do not have the naval capacity to transport their armies to Ulthuan, any more than they could assault Skavenblight. The Asur on the other hand cannot gather spare enough forces from their many other commitments to threaten a major Hold. Both sides are massivly stronger on the defensive and they both know this.

The worse case scenario is a rise in tension and thus a delay in reconciliation. Which while bad isn't remotely the cataclysm people seem to fear.
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Then again, that, too, is a good point. This is genuinely a very very good dilemma.
 
TimEd said:
And why can that not be through trade?

This can possibly double up as Favor repayment, and also a way to avoid loss of good dwarven lives.
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Ok what do you think is the cheaper option for the dwarfs? Because sending some dreadnought to teach the humans that are trying to stop the dwarfs is much cheaper than giving the Empire money for years.
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade
Barak Varr is the main force behind the project, and would not hesitate to deploy their navy in support of the Empire's to reopen trade routes.
To clarify: this would involve destroying Marienburg's navy and any chains, booms, and gates capable of blocking the river.

[X] No, but they would fight beside you
This could easily be spun as Elven sabotage of a Dwarven project. Dwarven pride would have the Throngs march alongside the Imperial Army, and Marienburg could be reclaimed.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
tho, I've been thinking about it, and the 'trade from the east plan' is going to hit its biggest obstacle soon(ish)

what happens when dwarf controlled trade routes meet the Orgre Tribes in control of cavern guarding.

if not careful, that could be a big problem as Orgre cavern guards are the only group to prove themselves tough enough to make the journey through the badlands with any reliability. (for a given value of the word reliable.)
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Dwarfs don't control any trade routes in the Badlands, nor are they capable of projecting power into them. The Ogres doing it would be a massive improvement over the status quo.
 
Nurgle said:
Ok what do you think is the cheaper option for the dwarfs? Because sending some dreadnought to teach the humans that are trying to stop the dwarfs is much cheaper than giving the Empire money for years.
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for 5 years or so. In exchange for losing the defense of the dreadnought for probably a similar timeframe (if no war pops up from this).

Dont forget that the dreadnought is constantly doing patrols to protect dwarven interests. Lose the dreadnought, then lose that layer of defense.



I think I get what most peeps are saying now about the trade route differences. Land route is just too much of a hassle for the Empire to profit off too much (as a whole anyway). So, that means the k8p trade route opening is as of yet, mainly benefits dwarves (and halflings) due to the newly opened holds (and new Moot).

Thank you to those who replied to my query.
 
TimEd said:
Which lessens the damage loss of overseas trade brings right?

So why are peeps so willing to fighti it out for this canal when the weapons it brings is possibly already being slowly replaced by better dwarven weapons?
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Eh... not quite. The potential to take advantage of this tie is there, but Karak Azul is only newly reconnected and still reforging ties with the Karaz Ankor, as we can see with Thorek busy heading off to places establishing the runesmith pecking order. Trade ties are in a similar state. The infrastructure, supply chains, etc are still in their nascent stages, and the bulk of it still needs to be hammered out. And, mind, this is with the Karaz Ankor. They barely know the Empire exists as a polity, and while that'll change, it'll take time.

To put it in dawi terms, this vein of ore is rich and full of potential, but it doesn't have a mine built around it, and prospecting has only just begun.

Plus, the canal would help this trade too, I think. I'm not clear on the geography, but I'm pretty sure it would expedite the forging of that link.
 
I doubt that the weapons trade from Bretonnia will just break down. Bretonnia lies right next to the Empire, and while the are separated by the Grey mountains, there are passes throught them. Sure, sea trade is more efficient, so things might get more expensive, but that's why we one of the options goes for throwing gold at the problem.
 
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