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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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picklepikkl said:
So, assuming the gyrocopter hanger loses the vote here, do we want to build the better version using our Penthouse action next turn? Or do we want to construct our fifth Tower room?
[ ] Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.

Also: opinions on our EIC action next turn? Rumor mill or spy organization?
[ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
[ ] Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.

(I'm interested in seeing discussion on the relatively minor "free" actions we get, because most of the discussion has been over big-picture differences, but good lord will people argue about the small stuff if it's not taken into consideration.)
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[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
Wanna see what our first multiwind magic tower is? I do. Building a Anti Air multi magic tower sounds awesome and let's us flex winderhearder all over people.

[ ] Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.
We recently critically failed in our responsibility to the Grey Order by forgetting that no matter what our "Job" is our first responsibility is to the Empire and that the Grey do that by being spymasters. It's time to get back to work.
 
Andmeuths said:
I'm actually not voting for the Gyrocopter Hanger for this vote, because I want the Gyrocopter Landing Pad instead. I am not sure about the others though, but I suspect that there are enough people who do want that Gyrocopter Hanger that want the better version instead, that there should be enough votes for a Gyrocopter Landing Pad to win. At least, I hope so.
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I mean, the landing pad is not strictly a better version. The hanger is more protected and presumably has the facilities for keeping and maintaining one while the pad is better for quick pick ups and drop offs and quickly getting to the eye in an emergency. They are both for gyrocopters but they serve different roles. Ideally I would want both, the hanger for overall use and the pad for emergencies.
 
HanEmpire said:
@BoneyM when the Undumgi grow large enough that the locals start demanding chapters of major Cults, will the clergy be made subordinate to Belegar?
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The Undumgi have had shrines of major cults since the beginning:
BoneyM said:
Everyone, it seems, wants to stake a claim on a set of quarters adjoining the central staircase, and with no other landmarks in the entire mountain you can see why. You refresh your own scouting memories with some poking around, and in a temporary office you work on a MAP of the main branches of the Karag. You map out a market for visiting merchants, a dining hall for group meals, and an armoury for the tools of the Undumgi's trade, and put word out for anyone who wishes to stick around without combat in their future, and there's a handful - young mercenaries think they'll be happy to fight their entire lives, but old ones start to dream of a tavern or a grocer or some other peaceful retirement, and you carefully distribute some of the larger rooms to them. Some are of a religious bent, and you approve shrines to Shallya, Ulric, Myrmidia, Ursun, and the Lady. You also receive a few unexpected requests, and after a word to an equally bemused King Belegar, you plot out the future locations of shrines to Grimnir and Valaya.
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And when we founded our Temple to Ranald, there was no indication that the clergy worked for Belegar in some way. They're subject to his laws, obviously, but they aren't employees of the state. I don't see why that would be different for other cults. Unless you mean something else by "subordinate"?
Awetduck said:
We recently critically failed in our responsibility to the Grey Order by forgetting that no matter what our "Job" is our first responsibility is to the Empire and that the Grey do that by being spymasters. It's time to get back to work.
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...sorry, what recent crit fail are you talking about?
 
Mopman43 said:
I don't think they literally mean a crit fail, but rather the fact that Mathilde knew the key to the Nordland-Middenland debacle and didn't realize to tell the Grey Order.
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She did explain the matter of the refugees to Algard didn't she? So which Key is it that Mathilde neglected to pass down?

Also, she didn't exactly connect the dots about the Nordland migrants and the Eonir until the ambassador clued her in on what was going on in the "disputed zone", so there is no way she could have explained the matter to the Grey Order beforehand.

Remember, even the entire thread was unable to figure it out, so it's kind of ironic that we are blaming Mathilde here for not telling Algard something she herself, as far as we can tell never connected the dots to until that meeting in Middenheim.
 
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Andmeuths said:
She did explain the matter of the refugees to Algard didn't she? So which Key is it that Mathilde neglected to pass down?
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I think its the idea that the answer was right under our nose and we were by far in the best position to figure it out but we have not been focusing on it and so it took the Al-Ulric all but telling us for us to realize what was happening. In the end it is a difference of opinion on focus. We have been focusing on our research and position as loremaster and neglecting our duties as a grey magister to act as part of the Empires intelligence apparatus.

Its kind of inevitable, there is only so much ap in a turn and so we cannot fully due our job as the Loremaster, our want for personal improvement/research, and our duty as a grey magister. And the thread overall has decided to prioritize the first two.
 
@BoneyM

Out of curiosity, now that we've retaken the main treasury, were the seals intact?

I might just have missed this but I am curious and it's a long thread.
 
picklepikkl said:
Also: opinions on our EIC action next turn? Rumor mill or spy organization?
[ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
[ ] Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.

(I'm interested in seeing discussion on the relatively minor "free" actions we get, because most of the discussion has been over big-picture differences, but good lord will people argue about the small stuff if it's not taken into consideration.)
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I prefer rumour mill for now.

We barely know anything about anything that's going on in the area. Best to start with extremely basic street-level news before working on more in-depth intelligence networks.

I'm hoping we can work towards making the EIC some kind of reliable mail/news/courier service in and around the Border Princes. That's got to be worth a fair bit, in this chaotic and fractious area.
 
picklepikkl said:
Also: opinions on our EIC action next turn? Rumor mill or spy organization?
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Rumour mill. It's a lot more fun to read than the stuff we'd get from the spy organisation. Not only does it give us the most interesting stuff that's happening from all over (only the most interesting stuff gets filtered into our mill), we get more of the crack cocaine that is seeing people react to our various accomplishments.
 
MooseHowl said:
We barely know anything about anything that's going on in the area. Best to start with extremely basic street-level news before working on more in-depth intelligence networks.
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We do get Karag Nar news, we have the EIC tied in with the Undumgi already; my impression is that the rumor mill option will generate stuff from wherever the EIC happens to have a presence, not just local to Karak Eight Peaks. But your point about progressing from basic -> sensitive is well taken.
 
kfrar said:
On further reflection, I have come up with a flawless plan for the Boon for the future.

Step 1: Using the Deceiver, hold a sermon for the growing and untended human population about how Ranald the Magician definitely exists and deserves your worship.
Step 2: Use the Boon and our inevitable mastery of Waystones to route all of K8P's power straight to Ranald for one turn. Both Belegar and the Night Prowler will be chuffed to steal so much of Thorgrim's mojo.
Step 3: Divinely Enforced Gaslighting + Massive Power Infusion = EZ Fifth Aspect and a worthy patron for wizards everywhere.

Nothing bad could ever come of such a plan.
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Ranald might not be too happy with Mathilde potentially accidentally unraveling the con behind his origin story.
 
Eldon said:
Its kind of inevitable, there is only so much ap in a turn and so we cannot fully due our job as the Loremaster, our want for personal improvement/research, and our duty as a grey magister. And the thread overall has decided to prioritize the first two.
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Most of our Intelligence Gathering efforts were not focused on Internal Karak (and Ulrikadin) Intelligence, but rather on external enemies, such as the Skaven and Greenskins. So, we did do part of our duty as a Grey Magister, but directed against the enemy without rather than the society within.

Come to think of it, did we even spend a single AP on internal intelligence? I recall that every single option to establish an internal intelligence network, such as the Ranaldian Underworld was decisively voted against because internal intelligence is not our job as the Loremaster. We haven't even created our Internal-facing Intelligence Network yet, and have been holding on off on it for the past seven turns. It's not surprising that the narrative consequence of this vote-pattern is that Mathilde failed to draw the dots regarding the Nordland migrants, anymore than I won't blink if Proscribed Cults are gaining a foothold in the Eight Peaks without Mathilde's awareness, since we didn't take the actions that could have averted this outcome ahead of time nor have we gotten eyes on Karak Nar until recently.

Again, I object to blaming Mathilde - there was no way she could have focused on things like Death Towers and robbing Queekish out of the Skaven and shanking Warbosses and murdering Alhkarad and his college and build an internal intelligence network on top of all that. And indeed, the thread turned down multiple chances to build such a network. Does it mean the thread acted in bad faith regarding the Grey College? Surely not!


MooseHowl said:
I prefer rumour mill for now.
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You sold me on the rumor mill. Let's at least get an idea of what the word is on the streets before doing things like Paramilitary Navies or recruiting Intelligence Handlers. Let's start with the basics before going for sensitive information indeed.

Remember, we can't open the Karaz a Karak Herald or the Altdorf Times to give us a read on publically available news. The rumor mill is the closest thing we are going to get to the newspapers, and would give the thread much more context to work with.
 
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Eldon said:
neglecting our duties as a grey magister to act as part of the Empires intelligence apparatus.
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This isn't actually our duty though, it's more along the lines of if you can then pass things along. We'd be fulfilling our obligation even if we did nothing but churn out papers. The idea all Grey magisters have to be spies searching out and reporting in news is a mischaracterization. If you do so good for you and it's a feather in the cap certainly, but not running down the origin stories of every party of the reclamation isn't neglect.
 
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Andmeuths said:
Come to think of it, did we even spend a single AP on internal intelligence? I recall that every single option to establish an internal intelligence network, such as the Ranaldian Underworld was decisively voted against because internal intelligence is not our job as the Loremaster. We haven't even created our Intelligence Network yet, and have been holding on off on it for the past seven turns.
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We took the option to convert the EIC into an intelligence asset and, to our credit, have used it for that somewhat; we took the EIC actions to get intel from Sylvania and intel from Karag Nar. But we haven't spent any personal AP on domestic intel stuff apart from that.

(I think that's fine. We're not an Intrigue adviser. And as you point out, it's hard to say with a straight face that we've been neglecting our duty as a Grey Wizard when we brought Algard news of a skaven civil war, just like he always wanted, and are close to delivering the secret language of an existential threat. We're just an enemies-of-humanity-focused Grey, not an internal-security-focused Grey.)
 
picklepikkl said:
We do get Karag Nar news, we have the EIC tied in with the Undumgi already; my impression is that the rumor mill option will generate stuff from wherever the EIC happens to have a presence, not just local to Karak Eight Peaks. But your point about progressing from basic -> sensitive is well taken.
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That could be. I was thinking of "local" as Karak Eight Peaks and Death Pass (Dwarves, Halflings, Ulrikadrin); I hadn't thought about "local" meaning... mostly Stirland I guess, where most of the EIC is.

@BoneyM Where would the local news be coming from if we chose this EIC option?
[ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
 
MooseHowl said:
That could be. I was thinking of "local" as Karak Eight Peaks and Death Pass (Dwarves, Halflings, Ulrikadrin); I hadn't thought about "local" meaning... mostly Stirland I guess, where most of the EIC is.

@BoneyM Where would the local news be coming from if we chose this EIC option?
[ ] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
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Wherever the EIC has an active presence.
 
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