Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
picklepikkl said:
We took the option to convert the EIC into an intelligence asset and, to our credit, have used it for that somewhat; we took the EIC actions to get intel from Sylvania and intel from Karag Nar. But we haven't spent any personal AP on domestic intel stuff apart from that.

(I think that's fine. We're not an Intrigue adviser. And as you point out, it's hard to say with a straight face that we've been neglecting our duty as a Grey Wizard when we brought Algard news of a skaven civil war, just like he always wanted, and are close to delivering the secret language of an existential threat. We're just an enemies-of-humanity-focused Grey, not an internal-security-focused Grey.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We are not Belegars intrigue advisor and yet we told him about the Skaven civil war two years before we told Algard. I get that the thread is on a Dwarflivesmatter kick but even with divided loyalty we should have told the Grey order far before it became convenient for us to do so.
 
Andmeuths said:
Most of our Intelligence Gathering efforts were not focused on Internal Karak (and Ulrikadin) Intelligence, but rather on external enemies, such as the Skaven and Greenskins. So, we did do part of our duty as a Grey Magister, but directed against the enemy without rather than the society within.

Come to think of it, did we even spend a single AP on internal intelligence? I recall that every single option to establish an internal intelligence network, such as the Ranaldian Underworld was decisively voted against because internal intelligence is not our job as the Loremaster. We haven't even created our Internal-facing Intelligence Network yet, and have been holding on off on it for the past seven turns. It's not surprising that the narrative consequence of this vote-pattern is that Mathilde failed to draw the dots regarding the Nordland migrants, anymore than I won't blink if Proscribed Cults are gaining a foothold in the Eight Peaks without Mathilde's awareness, since we didn't take the actions that could have averted this outcome ahead of time nor have we gotten eyes on Karak Nar until recently.

Again, I object to blaming Mathilde - there was no way she could have focused on things like Death Towers and robbing Queekish out of the Skaven and shanking Warbosses and murdering Alhkarad and his college and build an internal intelligence network on top of all that. And indeed, the thread turned down multiple chances to build such a network. Does it mean the thread acted in bad faith regarding the Grey College? Surely not!




You sold me on the rumor mill. Let's at least get an idea of what the word is on the streets before doing things like Paramilitary Navies or recruiting Intelligence Handlers. Let's start with the basics before going for sensitive information indeed.

Remember, we can't open the Karaz a Karak Herald or the Altdorf Times to give us a read on publically available news. The rumor mill is the closest thing we are going to get to the newspapers, and would give the thread much more context to work with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We cant pick up the KAK Herald because he weighs more than we lift. The Altdorf Gazette is a standard and reprinted publication. We'd probably need have it sent down from Barak Varr.
 
Awetduck said:
We are not Belegars intrigue advisor and yet we told him about the Skaven civil war two years before we told Algard. I get that the thread is on a Dwarflivesmatter kick but even with divided loyalty we should have told the Grey order far before it became convenient for us to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hold up, this is way way way too much "benefit of hindsight" analysis. We knew that there was a local conflict between skaven clans, and then later learned that Mors was considered a traitor-clan. We did not know that this meant that there was a civil war throughout the whole of the Under-Empire until Qrech told us, and then we immediately took that upstairs. So, no, I don't think we failed in our duty at all -- I did a quick search through the thread archives and I certainly couldn't find anyone saying "we should go tell the Empire about a full-scale Skaven civil war based on the evidence we've got here!"

Like, even once our Eshin-friend told us that Mors was on the outs, that's not Big Deal News. We had no way of knowing what the scale was, how much fighting was happening, or if they had any allies. It was really important locally, but not at the "immediately inform the Grey Patriarch" level. It was only once we began interrogating Qrech that we discovered that Mors was considered a Traitor-Clan because Pestilens had made a play for power, Mors backed them, and Pestilens and its allies were being destroyed as quickly as possible in the hopes that they could finish the job before the Horned Rat calls time-out. As soon as we knew that, we told Algard, because that has national-level implications, not just local ones.
 
chocolote12 said:
That devil is also nonsensical. The entire concept is pretty dumb, considering we regularly have folks from the normal colleges come over.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Andmeuths said:
Maybe, but claiming that the Great Libary WILL lead to a Branch College is a strong claim.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Neshuakadal said:
The idea that a library is a branch college is like stating a gun museums needs to also have a gun factory
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Zero Gravitas said:
No it isn't. A branch of the Colleges in K8P isn't
a grwat idea - there's not enough wizards for a proper branch of the Colleges - the far closer Stirland couldn't support a few wizards for a vampire research project.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I too have jumped into discussions midway and missed a point, so let me reiterate mine.

What I'm saying might look sketchy is not a big library. It's the particular combination of a giant magical library that's attached to a research institute that's explicitly founded as sanctuary to wizards.

Now, does that sound like a College of Magic to you? Because it certainly does to me.

I dislike this mish-mash that's gained traction due to being a step away (training apprentices) from being a full blown College itself, while trying very hard not to say that out loud.

And, if Branch Colleges do not train apprentices in DL cannon, then what's missing?

This is arguing that this particular combination that's become popular is missing out from buying an official rubber stamp from the Colleges.
 
Last edited:
TotallyNotEvil said:
This is arguing that this particular combination that's become popular is missing out from buying an official rubber stamp from the Colleges.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I can understand the interpretation that we might have missed particular parts of your argument which could have influenced our understanding of what, specifically, you were referring to when you called the whole business sketchy looking. I know that being misunderstood in an argument and getting dogpiled for it feels really bad. I would like to take a second to say that while I disagree with your position, I'm not intending to do so antagonistically or anything; sorry if I gave that impression.

That being said, I was actually referring to the entire mishmash institution, however vague my post might have been. While I agree that it might be interpreted as a branch college, my point of disagreement was rather with the accompanying assertion that it would be considered sedition by the colleges. I hold this point of view for a few reasons.

When I said that 'we regularly have folks from the normal colleges come over', what I was attempting to communicate was that there'd be no way that we could possibly do this that would be secret to Altdorfian interests, especially as we would not be attempting to hide it from them. Therefore, it would not be considered sedition because if it got to the point where it was even a thing, there would have been a long period of time where every important person in the colleges could have heard about it and asked us to please just not do so in the first place.

My second reason was that sedition implies the undertaking of actions against the interests of the college, and the establishment of an 'informal branch college', explicitly created and run by Imperial wizards in the hold of an Imperial Ally, with regular Imperial Correspondence to the Empire, created as a boon to a wizard of the empire for helping that ally retake that hold, would not be a crime against anything except perhaps paperwork. Like, some bureaucratic types might hold a grudge. Everybody else would be too happy having another giant mountain school filled full of books and fellow nerds; frankly, if it were against the rules but properly executed, it sounds cool enough that we might just get permission for it retroactively, like a lesser version of Dragomas' situation.
 
[X] [BOON] I know just what to spend it on...
[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet
 
Last edited:
I rather strongly doubt that Mathilde had been neglectful in her duties as a Grey Magister in not realizing what the refugees meant. We're running up against the Notability Problem of intelligence work: so much of the information is utter noise that you'd need entire teams of full time, access cleared Grey Perpetual Apprentices to sort through the information.

Most of the time, the agent on site has to make a call on whether a certain piece of information is relevant. Sometimes individual pieces are irrelevant but becomes significant in aggregate, in which case the agent on the higher tier would have let the agent on site know to specifically send in the information.

Mathilde reported everything she knew, but did not realize the significance. Algard knew the significance but did not have the minor detail.

So look at how the information moved.
0) Initial Observations
-There is a Middenlander Ulrican knightly order which had gone AWOL in a relatively nice way, citing irreconcilable differences with their leadership.
-There is a Taalite knightly order on murder kitties.
-There is an army of Nordlander (mostly) Ulrican adventurers, which had joined the expedition, citing disgust at their leadership.
-There is an army of Stirlander deserters, which had joined the expedition, citing disgust at their leadership.

1) Mathilde distills, applies context and relays the information
-There is an Ulrican knightly order which had decided to go AWOL by helping the allies of the Empire. They seem nervous about the politics.
-There is a Taalite knightly order on murder kitties.
-Theres an army of Ulrican warriors following the Ulrican knightly order. Looks like militia quality.
-The Stirlanders deserters are here because Roswita tried to make them use guns, they intend to buy land to settle down and farm when they go home.

2) Algard receives and interprets the information in greater context from Mathilde's report. His conclusion is simple and quick:
-The Knightly Order has a political disagreement with the Ar Ulric and left Middenland, but are still loyal to the Empire.
--Keep them as is, its potentially useful leverage against Middenland later.
-The Knightly Order has a bunch of Ulrican warriors following it.
--This is normal for religious knightly orders, and militia quality warriors practically grow on trees. The Ulricans probably attracted a bunch of zealots and pilgrims on their way to a good fight, which is well known to attract Ulricans seeking favor with their god.
-The Stirlander deserters are slightly worrying, but their Elector Count isn't making a fuss, they aren't exactly dangerous and they intend to be productive Imperial citizens, so leave them be. It beats turning bandit.


There was just no reason to look any deeper. He's deep in AP Hell and refugees just aren't important enough to warrant a second look.
 
fictionfan said:
What sort of magic/rune/tech goodies would we need to successfully assassinate Malekith?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Malekith once tore his way out of the Realm of Chaos. Whatever you think would be enough, go higher.

fictionfan said:
Assuming our sneak game was on point and we took him completely by surprise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Don't. The Drucchi are a society based on backstabbing and trickery, and they've got people as good or better at stealth than we are.
 
BoneyM said:
and you have a quick word with Princess Edda, and a quick reconciliation later leads to a small pile of golden coins turned over to the We
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am a little confused about this part of the update. I thought we had a decent relationship with Princess Edda. Or did Princess Edda not like the spiders? Who was reconciled to who?
 
Mopman43 said:
Malekith once tore his way out of the Realm of Chaos. Whatever you think would be enough, go higher.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well our sword imposes proper physics on those it hits. That is basically the opposite of the realm of chaos. I wonder if he has any magic keeping him alive?
Mopman43 said:
Don't. The Drucchi are a society based on backstabbing and trickery, and they've got people as good or better at stealth than we are.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So are the Skaven. We were as good as their specialists awhile back, are better now and we are going to get better still. We have not gone on our elf training camp yet.
 
Last edited:
BoneyM said:
Change the fundamental nature of the universe so that wizards aren't several orders of magnitude scarcer than ambitious surplus sons of nobility.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So you're saying we need something along the lines of bringing back every wizard that ever died as an undead monstrosity that retains their free will?

Mopman43 said:
Malekith once tore his way out of the Realm of Chaos. Whatever you think would be enough, go higher.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... So, that Elfcation we got, can we use it to study under Malekith?

Because not having a way to escape the Realm of Chaos is the biggest problem with my Plan B and Plan C for bringing back our love interest.
 
Omegahugger said:
So you're saying we need something along the lines of bringing back every wizard that ever died as an undead monstrosity that retains their free will?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Less necromancy, more shipping. Panoramia's lineage shows magical talent is hereditary. The wizards need to make like King Kazador and his wife.

And before you suggest both, I'm concerned that Dhar might adversely impact fertility.
 
fictionfan said:
Well our sword imposes proper physics on those it hits. That is basically the opposite of the realm of chaos. I wonder if he has any magic keeping him alive?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's a level of artifacts out there where you can't guarantee that the sword will actually do anything.

Kragg's great and all, but Malekith's armor was forged with the hammer of Vaul. I'm not betting on Kragg in that one.

fictionfan said:
So are the Skaven. We were as good as their specialists awhile back, are better now and we are going to get better still. We have not gone on our elf training camp yet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Skaven live for a couple decades if they're lucky. Dark Elves can live for millennia. Malekith is the second oldest mortal in the world, just behind his mother.
 
Last edited:
Neshuakadal said:
Assuming our sword's rune will be able to overpower Malekith's magical items seems like a bold predication.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well it is a masterwork of the one of the 2 greatest runesmiths in the world flexing to show himself better then the other one of the 2 greatest runesmiths in the world. Also anti-magic is something of a dwarf specialty.

Edit: Do you think that AV could be used to super charge rune weapons?
 
Last edited:
fictionfan said:
Well it is a masterwork of the one of the 2 greatest runesmiths in the world flexing to show himself better then the other one of the 2 greatest runesmiths in the world. Also anti-magic is something of a dwarf specialty.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
One of the two greatest living Runesmiths in the world. The Dwarfs in their Golden Age were capable of things Kragg can't even conceive of, and Malekith was there for all of it. And outlasted all of it.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top