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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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TotallyNotEvil said:
I could go either way.

But if people are dead-set on the mish-mash sanctuary-library-research institute, then call it what it is and ask for a Branch College.

But for whatever we want, Belegar's position is going to be MUCH stronger with the College if he is going for the Waystones.

And for either Books or Knock-Off College, that's going to massively drive down the bill. A very significant amount of books is going to come out of the Colleges, after all.
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And once we have decided to make the grand library, we can advice Belegar on how to get the most out of Colleges.
This "but if we just wait a year, or two, maybe three, no more than a decade..." thing does not help, we need to make a decision on what we want before we can decide how to do it.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
The Colleges are probably going to take exception to that.

And it's an enormous waste besides, not being able to officially draw upon the resources of the Colleges. Especially as they are going to look into sending a lot of qualified folk down here for the Waystone thing, so making a proper College is a hop and a skip away.
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I think the difference is how much of a focus on magic you're expecting.

I'm thinking less magic focus than you seem to be thinking... it's hardly a branch of the colleges if nobody learns to use wizardry there and magic-focused texts and research is all theory that doesn't require active practice.
 
Briefvoice said:
I think the difference is how much of a focus on magic you're expecting.

I'm thinking less magic focus than you seem to be thinking... it's hardly a branch of the colleges if nobody learns to use wizardry there and magic-focused texts and research is all theory that doesn't require active practice.
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Also access restricted by the order of the Lorekeeper.
 
[X] [WE] Hunt the Mountains
Because the enemies of dwarf included warpstone-infested Skaven, who we know aren't good for my babies' digestion.

[X] [WE] Bounty System
... When you think about it, isn't this basically just hiring giant spider babysitters from an adventuring guild? HOW CAN I NOT WANT THIS!?

[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.
[X] [BOON] Save it as a trump card to exploit an opportunity or address an emergency.
Not sure it is politically viable for my desired usage to win right now, so I'm voting for an extension.

[X] [ROOM] Vault
[X] [ROOM] Explosives Laboratory
[X] [ROOM] Training Hall
[X] [ROOM] Firing Range
[X] [ROOM] Provision Room
[X] [ROOM] Armoury
[X] [ROOM] Trophy Room
[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
[X] [ROOM] Wolf's Room
[X] [ROOM] Gyrocopter Hangar
I was a bit torn on this one, so I voted for every option I wouldn't mind winning~
Omegahugger( me) , did you just vote for literally everything except the Shrine to Ranald?
YES~<3333
 
I wonder if we could use the boon to have Belegar convince the college to release us from the vow of poverty, like make it official that "Thane Mathilde Weber" Is officially and legally a different entity from "Magister Mathilde Weber", accumulating wealth could help us in so many ways.

Or we could go back to that lost opportunity to become "Princess Mathilde", have him secure a Border Prince title for us, and eventually help us secure the actual land, with our own kingdom we could provide diplomatic immunity to wizards, backed by our alliance to the Karaz Ankor.

While securing the Badlands is a long term project, if Mathilde lives long enough it might not be impossible?
 
Valmond said:
And once we have decided to make the grand library, we can advice Belegar on how to get the most out of Colleges.
This "but if we just wait a year, or two, maybe three, no more than a decade..." thing does not help, we need to make a decision on what we want before we can decide how to do it.
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Personally I don't know what I want, but I agree. This is how the AV took over a decade to get started, right? Besides, every time we do, in fact, find something we could use it for, everybody will look at it and go, "nah, Mathilde can just manage that herself. We don't need help."
 
das_slash said:
I wonder if we could use the boon to have Belegar convince the college to release us from the vow of poverty
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First. LOL NOPE!
Second. Why? (we already filthy rich in practice)
Third. What do you plan to tell the Bursar if she decides to summon us to the college instead of just sending half a dozen magister lords to murderize us?
 
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[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.
[X] [BOON] Save it as a trump card to exploit an opportunity or address an emergency.
 
Valmond said:
First. LOL NOPE!
Second. Why?
Third. What do you plan to tell the Bursar if he decides to summon us to the college instead of just sending half a dozen magister lords to murderize us?
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I'm just throwing stuff out there because I really don't want a library.

If anything, I am aware our great deed is more likely to get us this.
 
das_slash said:
I wonder if we could use the boon to have Belegar convince the college to release us from the vow of poverty, like make it official that "Thane Mathilde Weber" Is officially and legally a different entity from "Magister Mathilde Weber", accumulating wealth could help us in so many ways.
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You can use the boon to ask Belegar to do it. If the college says no, congratulations, you've just handed Belegar a duty that's impossible to discharge, and there is a traditional remedy for a dwarf with an obligation they cannot fulfill. So I'm gonna say no on that one.
Ericwinter said:
Personally I don't know what I want, but I agree. This is how the AV took over a decade to get started, right?
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Nonsense! Only seven years :V.
Valmond said:
Third. What do you plan to tell the Bursar if he decides to summon us to the college instead of just sending half a dozen magister lords to murderize us?
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She, but the point is valid.
 
das_slash said:
I'm just throwing stuff out there because I really don't want a library.

If anything, I am aware our great deed is more likely to get us this.
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I might be misreading, but you'd rather Mathilde get executed than use the boon on the library?
Or are you saying that using the boon to get us out of the vow of poverty is likely to succeed and/or be a worthwhile boon?
 
[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet
[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.
[X] [ROOM] Vault
[X] [ROOM] Explosives Laboratory
[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
[X] [ROOM] Training Hall
 
thamuzz said:
I might be misreading, but you'd rather Mathilde get executed than use the boon on the library?
Or are you saying that using the boon to get us out of the vow of poverty is likely to succeed and/or be a worthwhile boon?
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You are misreading, yes.
Valmond said:
I very much doubt anything will ever get us out of our vow of poverty.
But, seriously, do you have any plans for what to tell the bursar if we tried?
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I just want to get people talking about what other things we want, I raised the possibility, it does not mean I think it the perfect solution.
 
My opinion on boons, both the Dwarven one and the Empire great favor: Use them for narrative effect.

The question of library versus college branch versus new institute is contentious because it conflates two narratives. The first narrative, drawn from the ideas of a research institute or a college branch, is something like "I want to read more SCIENCE, more grand cooperation and megaprojects and ducklings and runelords". The second narrative, drawn from the original idea of making K8P a haven for wizardry and sharing mindspace with the ideas about asking to be taught dwarven runecraft, is something like "I want to read more about the modernization and integration of Dwarven culture". Both options accomplish both narratives, but in different amounts, which is why the details and their interpretations have become so much of an issue: People are fumbling around trying to discuss a narrative without the proper tools or perspective on what they want.

The dreadnought is, presumably, "I want to read more politics"; a boat gets Mathilde more involved in trade and able to move to new places more easily. A chunk of this narrative's support is probably split over saving the boon for an emergency that'd let them read Mathilde using it to build an alliance by cutting some Grudge-based gordian knot.

Other voters are probably voting to save the boon for an emergency because the narrative they want is something like "I want to read more of Mathilde leading armies" or "I want to read more of Mathilde assassinating warbosses and Skaven leaders". This narrative will probably also have some support from the crowd that simply doesn't know what to spend it on.

A transcendent boon transcends Mathilde's perspective, not only her perspective on her life in the context of Karak Eight Peaks but also of her perspective on the story. Don't overcomplicate the discussion by getting bogged down in technicalities. Our QM isn't going to accept a thousand-word vote anyway, so the technicalities are pointless. Think in terms of what story the vote is going to lead our QM to write in response to our vote.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Folks, why don't we hold our Boon for now, wait a turn or two to see how the Waystone Project is going to shake out, and decide then?
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Because the KaK dwarves are here to do a lot of the kind of work I imagine will need doing, and I don't care how the Waystone project shakes out because I wouldn't want to spend the Boon on it anyway. It's ours, I am dead set against using it on a multinational-multiracial group project.

Briefvoice said:
I think the difference is how much of a focus on magic you're expecting.

I'm thinking less magic focus than you seem to be thinking... it's hardly a branch of the colleges if nobody learns to use wizardry there and magic-focused texts and research is all theory that doesn't require active practice.
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Until TotallyNotEvil brought up magic, I had been operating under the assumption that it would have been entirely non-magical, since we have our own library for magic stuff. A Library of Alexandria type of thing, gathering knowledge from all over the world.
 
das_slash said:
You are misreading, yes.

I just want to get people talking about what other things we want, I raised the possibility, it does not mean I think it the perfect solution.
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I mean, there was a lot of talking when we learned about the boon. That's where the library idea came from. I'll admit I'm not massively enthusiastic about the library, I find it far more palatable than any of the other suggestions that have been made.
That includes getting out the VoP, which feels like a far bigger waste than building a library (not to mention that I don't think Belegar can actually do that).
 
[X] [COLLEGE] 5 favors for a full translation of the Cathayan books

[X] [DWARF] Have a Grandmaster Engineer have a go at the Stirland Repeater - 8 favors

[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.

[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet

[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
 
Vebyast said:
Other voters are probably voting to save the boon for an emergency because the narrative they want is something like "I want to read more of Mathilde leading armies" or "I want to read more of Mathilde assassinating warbosses and Skaven leaders". This narrative will probably also have some support from the crowd that simply doesn't know what to spend it on.
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I have to disagree on this one, I'm 99.9% sure this is just gamer hording habit/don't like the options that look popular for most.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
I have to disagree on this one, I'm 99.9% sure this is just gamer hording habit/don't like the options that look popular for most.
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"Not liking the options that look popular for most" is exactly what I said. As for "gamer hoarding habits", well, I prefer to ascribe basic competence to my fellow voters, even if I am regularly disappointed.
 
On a more ambiguous ambit, could we ask for the right to restore a dwarf's honor on the completion of a task? Instead of one big burst of racial repayment, instead purchase an interest in long term honor payments.

So any dwarf that feels has lost their honor can come to us for judgement and restitution, thus providing Mathilde a steady source of minions/skilled labour, and the dwarfs an alternative for slayerhood.

Like, that poor boy that felt hadn't helped enough during the battle could come to us for a task, we could ask him to carve in great detail the battle for the caldera in our foyer and thus restore his honor, keep the memory of the event, and pimp up our tower at the same time.
 
[X] [WE] Scavenge the Gauntlet
[X] [BOON] Save it until the Karak is wealthy enough to afford my ambition.
[X] [ROOM] Vault
[X] [ROOM] Explosives Laboratory
[X] [ROOM] Guest Room
[X] [ROOM] Training Hall
[X] [DWARF] No purchase
 
das_slash said:
On a more ambiguous ambit, could we ask for the right to restore a dwarf's honor on the completion of a task? Instead of one big burst of racial repayment, instead purchase an interest in long term honor payments.

So any dwarf that feels has lost their honor can come to us for judgement and restitution, thus providing Mathilde a steady source of minions/skilled labour, and the dwarfs an alternative for slayerhood.

Like, that poor boy that felt hadn't helped enough during the battle could come to us for a task, we could ask him to carve in great detail the battle for the caldera in our foyer and thus restore his honor, keep the memory of the event, and pimp up our tower at the same time.
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I doubt Belegar could make that stick.
Thorgrim could not make that stick.
Honor is a huge thing for dwarves.
 
das_slash said:
On a more ambiguous ambit, could we ask for the right to restore a dwarf's honor on the completion of a task? Instead of one big burst of racial repayment, instead purchase an interest in long term honor payments.

So any dwarf that feels has lost their honor can come to us for judgement and restitution, thus providing Mathilde a steady source of minions/skilled labour, and the dwarfs an alternative for slayerhood.

Like, that poor boy that felt hadn't helped enough during the battle could come to us for a task, we could ask him to carve in great detail the battle for the caldera in our foyer and thus restore his honor, keep the memory of the event, and pimp up our tower at the same time.
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I get that you don't like the current frontrunner and are throwing out ideas. This one has Belegar going head to head with the cult of Grimnir and dwarven tradition. Let's not ask for something that could trigger a civil war.
 
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