The chaos dwarves split off from the Karaz Ankor before the elf-dwarf alliance.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
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The chaos dwarves split off from the Karaz Ankor before the elf-dwarf alliance.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The Chaos Dwarfs were separated when Chaos first came. This was before the Elves and Dwarfs met, so before the network was built.
Boney said that the network was built to be able to use the Great Works of the Ancestor Gods after they left. It seems possible to me that the original power source was Valaya herself.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I think the secrecy in the dwarven empire is due to the cultural scars that the war between the dwarves and elves caused. Their closest allies in their mind betrayed them that seems to have soured them on sharing anything.
joe6168
Just a humble lurker
- Location
- Michigan, The lower left glove
I bet the original Great Runes drew power directly from the glimmering realm where the ancestors first discovered them (or whatever it was called). And once they were gone the knowledge was lost requiring an alternative.
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Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
Thorgrim: "And on top of all of that, we're running out of fuel for our runecraft, especially those that power the most important and powerful artifacts of our race!"
Mathilde: !
Belegor: "So we need some kind of new power source to save basically the Dwarven race as we know it?
Kragg: "What kind of madman would it take figure something like that out?"
Mathilde: "Um...actually,"
Belegor and Kragg: "Oh no."
Mathilde: "No seriously, I have just the thing, get this..."
Thorgrim: "You have a way to power dozens, if not hundreds, of our most powerful weapons, forges, and works."
Belegor and Kragg: "That Tower was one thing, but you can't expect us to believe you already have a solution to this, can you?"
Thorgrim: "You're just some random Umgi Wizard, wait what Tower?"
Mathilde: (Straightens her hat) The first thing we need is to capture some live deamons and put them in a state of eternal suffering of being both alive and dead at the same time."
Belegor and Thorgrim: *Eyes wide and mouths open in fascination and horror*
Kragg: *Sighs heavily as he pulls out a metal plaque and begins taking notes*
Mathilde: !
Belegor: "So we need some kind of new power source to save basically the Dwarven race as we know it?
Kragg: "What kind of madman would it take figure something like that out?"
Mathilde: "Um...actually,"
Belegor and Kragg: "Oh no."
Mathilde: "No seriously, I have just the thing, get this..."
Thorgrim: "You have a way to power dozens, if not hundreds, of our most powerful weapons, forges, and works."
Belegor and Kragg: "That Tower was one thing, but you can't expect us to believe you already have a solution to this, can you?"
Thorgrim: "You're just some random Umgi Wizard, wait what Tower?"
Mathilde: (Straightens her hat) The first thing we need is to capture some live deamons and put them in a state of eternal suffering of being both alive and dead at the same time."
Belegor and Thorgrim: *Eyes wide and mouths open in fascination and horror*
Kragg: *Sighs heavily as he pulls out a metal plaque and begins taking notes*
The Chaos and Norscan Dwarves we're both cut off from the rest of Karaz Ankor and the Ancestor Gods with the Coming of Chaos. Both groups would have had to find alternative solutions to dealing with the influx of magic.
We know that the Chaos Dwarves turned to Hashut. We don't know what the Norscan Dwarves did, apart from the fact they seem to have stayed faithful to the Ancestor Gods, they didn't enter into an elven alliance, they managed to survive the Coming of Chaos while being a lot further north without the direct assistance of the Ancestors, only the memory of the runes they'd previously been taught by them.
Their loss, if loss it is, rather than just Chaos propaganda (the 8th edition dwarf book talks about the Norscan Dwarves as if they still exist), would be a huge tragedy, as they must have preserved/developed ways for dwarves to survive without a Waystone network charging Runes of Valaya.
I did not think I would ever say this, but if this is true, if Sigmar decided in some pseudo-Tzeenchean plan to traumatize Mathilde and allow a man who was his dutiful servant to die with his mission unfulfilled and afraid for the burdens his daughter must bear I'm with @Omegahugger, time to break out the necromancy raise Van Hall and do our best to wipe the very name of Sigmar from history. That is not only callous which one might forgive in the service of a greater cause but so unforgivably stupid in counting upon factors Sigmar had no way of realistically influencing that it effectively set out to cause that trauma with lottery odds of actually achieving anything.
Fortunately I do not think Sigmar a god who started out as a standard barbarian hero and ended up as a somewhat authoritarian effigy of imperial unity would enact that sort of complex scheme.
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The infrastructure of the protections that shields the dawi, however, predate the schism. Which means the dawi zharr know. Just like they retain and have perverted elements of the runecraft the dawi hold sacred.
I doubt that the nature of where they draw that power from is hidden from the eyes of any God, Chaos or Order.
It might even help explain why the skaven seem to have a hard-on for Dwarven Karaks in particular.
If they are basically stable sources of tamed magical energy, I can see how the Grey Seers or the Horned Rat in particular would find uses for that.
Probably.
- Pronouns
- It/They
We're done with towers, next we should build an entire fortress.
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It was noted before that the Thorned Serpents are the only ones the mirrorcatch box would work on, and even then it was a literal one in a hundred chance that it would happen. Either it would have killed the daemon, or it would have survived and been captured permanently within the box.
If she gets a surprise round. Birdmuncha is a smart orc and probably pretty paranoid as well. I would not take him in any way lightly. Going after him is leaving Mathilde's life at the mercy of the dice where the odds might be with her but failure is very much a possibility.
The Great Works may or may not predate the schism. There's a fair chance that they post-date the schism though, as it's in the later part of the Coming of Chaos that the ambient magic levels become high enough to power Ancestor runes, for example.
The Waystone power network to fuel the Great Works post-Ancestors long post-dates the schism though.
The answer to what powered the Great Works back then might simply be that magic was strong enough pre-Vortex that they could just pull enough energy out of the surrounding environment, that they didn't need a Waystone network to collect and concentrate magic for them.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
That would be great for grey order but it will likely suffer from the same problems that law logic has for us. Off color winds messing with a wizards grey meat is likely not great.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
All brain meat is grey matter. Ergo, Ulgu can only help them.
- Location
- USA
I hate it when I can't stop the smoke detector that's beeping from low battery.
Why the hell do you think this makes Abelhelm special in the Empire?
As opposed to all those other Sigmar-worshipping people who die with family they are worried about and things they have left undone?
Abelhelm was anywhere from his mid forties to his fifties when he died, having lived a dangerous life hunting magical threats for the Empire, fathering multiple children, and guarding the Liber Mortis. There are Witch Hunters who don't survive their first case. Children who die in the cradle. Soldiers who die in their first battle with Sigmar's name on their lips. Elector Counts who died faster, especially in Stirland.
His family are guarded by Sigmarite Templars. He even got to say goodbye to some of his friends.
The idea that he was owed more, while IC belief for a grieving loved one, just holds zero water as an argument.
As for Roswita? She had a choice. She was not coerced.
That, above all, is what separates Destro and Order. And why their schemes are so often less certain than the plotting of Chaos.
Because Order's agents have agency, and may willingly decide to go bake cakes instead of attempt to save a nation somewhere.
Why do you think that Mathilde was the only scheme in motion, as opposed to the one that was obviously successful?
Ranald is not the only advocate of patience and positioning and contingency planning.
I mean, is it entirely coincidence that a Morr-worshipping Shyish Journeywoman with Intrigue 20+ and a willingness to settle down in Dawi territory showed up in the same Karak as the current custodian of the Liber Mortis? And ended up as her favorite?
Hmm?
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Keeping in mind that further north the ambient magic density is much higher, possibly high enough to run their Runes without a power grid, just off the equivalent of a wind farm.
Yeah, do not underestimate orcs. This is a really zoggin big orc who:
-Avoided the Eye of Gazul in the instant of it firing, when just before that he was seen on his big throne on his snotling wagon exposed. He had no earthly way to know about the Eye. Yet he was out of sight when it fired.
-Popped into the sapper teams, despite again, being really zoggin big, and dug through soil and then a flaw in the bedrock in the time Kragg was boiling the soil. If Mathilde wasn't there to detect it such that we could massively concentrate force at the breakthrough, it'd have been really bloody.
-Cunning enough to assess the threat and back off with his forces, once he realized how much dakka was pointing his way.
-Proceeded to escape somehow. When he couldn't have escaped down, up was boiling soil and sideways was mountain.
Like, his feats wouldn't be out of line for a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch.
- Pronouns
- It/They
He's clearly favored by Mork.
That was sum roight propa kunnin there.
The fact that he is human makes him special, it's also what makes Mathilde and Roswita special. The idea that thousands of others might be manipulated with such callous disregard for their own suffering in some mad number game to beat the odds does not make the notion better in any way shape or form, it just makes me think that this version of Sigmar is Tzeench with better publicity and a more well defined end game.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
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- He/Him
2410: Grom somehow survives eating raw troll meat.
2418: Slann pushes away Morrslieb, which makes Warpstone rain on the lands of men, but weaks the influence of Chaos in the long term.
2425: The goblin shaman Blacktoof, of Waaagh Grom, syphons power off a bunch of Ulthuan waystones, restoring the balance in the favor of Chaos.
Earlier in the Quest: Shit's going down between the Grand Theogonist and Ar-Ulric.
Now: K8P Waystones Online
Coming Soon: Ar-Ulric has a plan, and wants to involve us.
... Karak Eight Peaks had a mountain filled with warpstone
What if 8 peaks was a central hub for gathering power from multiple other holds, processes it, etc. and then channels that to the capital. Or if Eight Peaks is simply one of the major storage locations, and all that build up from just itself has been released. It might not end the issue, but may well hve bought time.
What if 8 peaks was a central hub for gathering power from multiple other holds, processes it, etc. and then channels that to the capital. Or if Eight Peaks is simply one of the major storage locations, and all that build up from just itself has been released. It might not end the issue, but may well hve bought time.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
From the outside, Mathilde looks like an unstoppable engine of sabotage and warlord-murder that can also dispel like a Runelord and lead a battle like a Thane.
If you've never seen her chased halfway across a mountain by a pack of drugged-up goblins, I mean.
So are all the other humans of the Empire. The ones who live in the shadow of beastmen and greenskins and in the influence of vampires. The ones who also ask Sigmar for intervention. To give an example, all the peasants of Averland whose survival chance is enhanced by the addition of healthy dwarven Karaks to serve as roadblocks against the next Ork waagh roaring towards Blackfire Pass.
Like this million greenskin army, for example.
And unlike many of those civilians, Abelhelm specifically committed himself to the defeat of threats to the Empire.
To be used as a weapon against them, like his family before him. Trained for it.
He wasnt coerced, any more than a soldier who enlists in an army to fight.
Neither did Mathilde, who also volunteered and trained for this job.
Manipulation? Callous? Numbers game? That's pretty much what generals do.
Every time you throw thousands of soldiers into combat you are dicing with their lives like pieces on a playing board. Most of those generals are well aware of the cost, just as Belegar was when he decided to retake K8P with the blood of dwarves and humans.
We don't consider it callous to do so.
It may well be that Abelhelm was cut short before his prime. It may also be that his lifespan was done anyway, and that he would have quietly died in his sleep that year even if the Drakenhof campaign hadn't happened. That Sigmar would have called a faithful servant home after a life well done, and bid him rest. After all, dude outlived a significant proportion of the army he took into Sylvania, and indeed all his bodyguard.
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That's true but also really not an argument for Mathilde to have any loyalty towards Sigmar or any Sigmarite institutions. Indeed a grudge wouldn't be inappropriate.
Like it is pretty indisputable that Sigmar has been a net drain and entirely unhelpful. Maybe the meeting with the Ulricans will provide an opportunity to balance the scales...
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
I know that this is uncharacteristically sane and careful for me but
Yes, the odds of it are low and if it happens it'll probably only be in a hundred years time, but if Nagash managed to take control of the Sally Port and power it, he could probably seize control of the soul of every dwarf who dies anywhere.
And while I might want Mathilde to call upon the spirits of the dead, that doesn't mean I'll just hand over our citizens to the first super-powerful and probably-handsome wizard that appears!
Let's make sure we do our very utmost to make sure this thing under no circumstances end up in Nagash's hands, okay? We know the guy is a genius amongst Lord tier spellcasters and he has a history of meddling with Divine Magic.
Yes, the odds of it are low and if it happens it'll probably only be in a hundred years time, but if Nagash managed to take control of the Sally Port and power it, he could probably seize control of the soul of every dwarf who dies anywhere.
And while I might want Mathilde to call upon the spirits of the dead, that doesn't mean I'll just hand over our citizens to the first super-powerful and probably-handsome wizard that appears!