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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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chocolote12 said:
Use the Protector Test: If you have to say anything extra for somebody to understand what this has to do with one god or another, no, it isn't clear enough to count. You could tie every action to one god or another; it's when things are unambiguous enough that it isn't up for discussion that they'll actually pay attention, though.
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Except absolutely nothing is that unambiguous. There will always be some small overlap in some way shape or form, as you've pointed out, and someone will always try to claim it for their deity, thus gods do absolutely nothing. Or, perhaps instead of dismissing something the moment someone has to expound or clarify upon their original point, like I did by explaining what I meant with "revitalizing the Karag Ankor"—which had very little to do with upholding the Polity, especially considering the mess with Thorgrim and whatever results from that—and you look at how much opposition there is. So far, I've made several points that ties things into Shallya, and you have made, what, one? If the numbers were more equal I might concede, but that seems fairly unambiguous to me.
As an aside, however, I should also point out that we're not discussing whether Shallya would have something to do with the reconquest, but whether Ranald could present it as a suitable gift to her for reconciliation. Things don't have to fall into her divine wheelhouse, however much they might, just be something she can appreciate. And if I could present it in such a poetic light, Ranald could almost certainly do it even better. That's the nice thing about gods being actual entities, they can still see things outside their influence and have opinions on them.
Anyways, I'm going to bed now. See y'all.
 
Ericwinter said:
Except absolutely nothing is that unambiguous. There will always be some small overlap in some way shape or form, as you've pointed out, and someone will always try to claim it for their deity, thus gods do absolutely nothing. Or, perhaps instead of dismissing something the moment someone has to expound or clarify upon their original point, like I did by explaining what I meant with "revitalizing the Karag Ankor"—which had very little to do with upholding the Polity, especially considering the mess with Thorgrim and whatever results from that—and you look at how much opposition there is. So far, I've made several points that ties things into Shallya, and you have made, what, one? If the numbers were more equal I might concede, but that seems fairly unambiguous to me.
As an aside, however, I should also point out that we're not discussing whether Shallya would have something to do with the reconquest, but whether Ranald could present it as a suitable gift to her for reconciliation. Things don't have to fall into her divine wheelhouse, however much they might, just be something she can appreciate. And if I could present it in such a poetic light, Ranald could almost certainly do it even better. That's the nice thing about gods being actual entities, they can still see things outside their influence and have opinions on them.
Anyways, I'm going to bed now. See y'all.
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We have literal Word of Boney that the Protector only works on deeds which, any random person seeing would conclude that "yes, you protected those guys". The important part is it bypasses the act of witnessing and it suppresses related cynicism and doubt about ulterior motives.

If you have to explain why it protects someone at all it doesn't work. This is the power of the rumor mill, not academic debate.

Thats kind of how these things work as a precedent
 
So, from what I can tell, all that's left in the turn is the AV, the Serenity paper (Vampire mist), and the social vote. Then there will be Social, then epilogue (or visa-versa). The Social turn usually has the vote on what the rooms in our basement are, and we still need to vote for the Social turn.

So any thoughts on who people want to socialize? I want to talk with Heidi about a) how awesome what we did was, and b) say hi to baby Mandred.
 
Abhorsen said:
So, from what I can tell, all that's left in the turn is the AV, the Serenity paper (Vampire mist), and the social vote. Then there will be Social, then epilogue (or visa-versa). The Social turn usually has the vote on what the rooms in our basement are, and we still need to vote for the Social turn.

So any thoughts on who people want to socialize? I want to talk with Heidi about a) how awesome what we did was, and b) say hi to baby Mandred.
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Soizic, General of the Undumgi (been on the list for a while)

Wilhelmina Hochschild (because we haven't talked to her for a while in a non-work way.)

Anton (because Anton)
 
I'm actually curious about Johann. We started this whole thing together, so it's worth getting his opinion and we also got a windfall on skaven tech books which I really want to see his reaction on.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I have to imagine that Belegar T-posing will handily win a social vote, and we have one of our slots taken up by someone reaching out to us, too.
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so the most likely as stands

Hedi and baby
Belegar T-posing
Soizic, General of the Undumgi
The wolf guy depending on how interesting the talk with the Ar-Wolf is.

(I kind of accepted that Wilhelmina doesn't do well in these and Anton is a coin flip depending on what shenanigans he is up to)
 
If sly and rogue Snuggles is a leutenant, would that make Wolf, a boy of exceptional goodness , an officer as well?

Hehheh.. for instance.. Colonel Wolf?
 
For social I really want to see how Panoramia going with her Magister exam….pity we never really see her activate her plant traps or see her fight lately.
 
veekie said:
We have literal Word of Boney that the Protector only works on deeds which, any random person seeing would conclude that "yes, you protected those guys". The important part is it bypasses the act of witnessing and it suppresses related cynicism and doubt about ulterior motives.

If you have to explain why it protects someone at all it doesn't work. This is the power of the rumor mill, not academic debate.

Thats kind of how these things work as a precedent
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Alright, one last thing, because this is just too ridiculous to let go. I'm not talking about the Protector. The point was that the protector is a very different matter from gods and their domains, and trying to apply an idea about how divine artifacts will interpret protecting somebody to whether any number of actions or events could fall under the aegis of one god despite it also falling under the aegis of another are two entirely different things. For one, it's a single God's power working off something as mundane and vaguely defined as the rumor mill to spread knowledge, versus two or more gods liking something, and thus having to fight over who gets credit or actually had a hand in making it happen. They're two completely different subjects with very different parameters on what exactly applies. I'm not even sure how the subjects were likened to one another in the first place.
Then there's the bit you ignored entirely, where none of this has anything to do with Shallya, but with how Ranald would spin the tale to make her happy about it. If you still don't get it, just imagine the posts with my explanations as an omake where Ranald shows up on Shallya's doorstep and repeats it verbatim except for the more meta parts. That was the point of this whole conversation in the first place.
 
Jrin said:
For social I really want to see how Panoramia going with her Magister exam….pity we never really see her activate her plant traps or see her fight lately.
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I wasn't sure if she was going to go for it this year without our help, given what she said in the turn prior. But if she did, I really want to do this.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
so the most likely as stands

Hedi and baby
Belegar T-posing
Soizic, General of the Undumgi
The wolf guy depending on how interesting the talk with the Ar-Wolf is.

(I kind of accepted that Wilhelmina doesn't do well in these and Anton is a coin flip depending on what shenanigans he is up to)
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Corporal snuggles and wolf playing with Mathelide
 
Ericwinter said:
So far, I've made several points that ties things into Shallya, and you have made, what, one? If the numbers were more equal I might concede, but that seems fairly unambiguous to me.
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If the quantity of one's arguments equated to their quality, then I would still reign above you; I may be the weakest of the four heavenly thread kings, and those thrones ever shifting as the days turn, save for BoneyM's unreachable and constant star, but I still wield that dreadful power. :V

Shallya isn't about healing everybody, or even lots of people, although I'd imagine she'd like to. She's not about widespread, world-changing actions. She does things one at a time, helping the person in front of her. Saying that we helped a polity or a people has nothing to do with her thematics; did we mend broken bones? Did we patch up wounds? Were people crying from pain, and we stopped that pain? Not metaphorically, but literally; those things are what she cares about.

Did we help deliver children? Did we cure sicknesses? Did we strike down the followers of the plague god? Not metaphorically, but literally; those things are what she cares about.

Shallya cries because she feels the suffering of every living thing. Have we lessened her burden? We have made the world a better place for the dwarves, who have reclaimed their halls, and the halflings, who have built new ones, and the Undumgi, who have found a place where they are always welcome, but those things were paid for in blood, our blood and the blood of others.

The Reclamation of Eight Peaks is not a fitting tribute to the goddess who felt every loss on either side.
 
Shovern said:
It's far from all of them by any means(Only seven) but:
Can you guess them all?

If people have good suggestions for additional "hats" I might make another version later.
EDIT: Never mind Photoshop decided to bork my project file.
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...is it too late to switch genres and get a JRPG Job System going? Change costume hat, get another related action. :V
Base Class Grey Mage. (Even leaves open Black Mage for OmegaHugger later...) :V
 
Shovern said:
It's far from all of them by any means(Only seven) but:
Can you guess them all?

If people have good suggestions for additional "hats" I might make another version later.
EDIT: Never mind Photoshop decided to bork my project file.
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This is an astounding meme, but can you make a version that's, like, ten times as slow or something? The hats are flashing by faster than I can identify and appreciate them, sorry.
 
I do think that a truly huge gesture towards Shallya should be the cornerstone of a hypothetical Ranald reconciliation effort - something more valuable to her than the cleansing of Sylvania was to Mor, more valuable to her than the reclamation of K8P is to Myrmidia, more valuable to her than the Great Library will be to Verena.

I'm not sure what we could do to actually fit the bill, though - perhaps the effort towards Shallya will be done by Ranald's other friends, with Mathilde "only" providing the extra gifts for Shallya's family?
 
chocolote12 said:
If the quantity of one's arguments equated to their quality, then I would still reign above you; I may be the weakest of the four heavenly thread kings, and those thrones ever shifting as the days turn, save for BoneyM's unreachable and constant star, but I still wield that dreadful power. :V

Shallya isn't about healing everybody, or even lots of people, although I'd imagine she'd like to. She's not about widespread, world-changing actions. She does things one at a time, helping the person in front of her. Saying that we helped a polity or a people has nothing to do with her thematics; did we mend broken bones? Did we patch up wounds? Were people crying from pain, and we stopped that pain? Not metaphorically, but literally; those things are what she cares about.

Did we help deliver children? Did we cure sicknesses? Did we strike down the followers of the plague god? Not metaphorically, but literally; those things are what she cares about.

Shallya cries because she feels the suffering of every living thing. Have we lessened her burden? We have made the world a better place for the dwarves, who have reclaimed their halls, and the halflings, who have built new ones, and the Undumgi, who have found a place where they are always welcome, but those things were paid for in blood, our blood and the blood of others.

The Reclamation of Eight Peaks is not a fitting tribute to the goddess who felt every loss on either side.
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Yeah, she'd absolutely weep for Clan Mors' last stand even. Even if their fate was due to alliance with Pestilens, they aren't themselves of that ilk.

If you want to make Shallya happy, you fund orphanages, feed the poor, build stout homes...well really you can see how Ranaldites get Shallyan favors easily, basically all the things Shallya likes are in line with the Protector, though funding it may take a great deal of luck, deceit or theft.
And a clever Ranaldite will always doubledip if they could.
 
chocolote12 said:
If the quantity of one's arguments equated to their quality, then I would still reign above you; I may be the weakest of the four heavenly thread kings, and those thrones ever shifting as the days turn, save for BoneyM's unreachable and constant star, but I still wield that dreadful power. :V
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I'm coming for you! my strength may not be a match for you yet but every day my dark powers grow as yours waxes and wanes...

edit: I'm pretending to joke, but I've climbed to the top 20 very fast for someone only playing from the end of the Striland arc... I might have a problem.

veekie said:
Yeah, she'd absolutely weep for Clan Mors' last stand even. Even if their fate was due to alliance with Pestilens, they aren't themselves of that ilk.

If you want to make Shallya happy, you fund orphanages, feed the poor, build stout homes...well really you can see how Ranaldites get Shallyan favors easily, basically all the things Shallya likes are in line with the Protector, though funding it may take a great deal of luck, deceit or theft.
And a clever Ranaldite will always doubledip if they could.
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hence, nunneries.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
I do think that a truly huge gesture towards Shallya should be the cornerstone of a hypothetical Ranald reconciliation effort - something more valuable to her than the cleansing of Sylvania was to Mor, more valuable to her than the reclamation of K8P is to Myrmidia, more valuable to her than the Great Library will be to Verena.

I'm not sure what we could do to actually fit the bill, though - perhaps the effort towards Shallya will be done by Ranald's other friends, with Mathilde "only" providing the extra gifts for Shallya's family?
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Freeing the Skaven from the torture that is living under the Horned Rat would probably count.
 
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