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Ok I think you guys are assuming something that would work well with humans will work with dwarfs. The race of perfectionist who hate sharing secrets with each other and going against dwarf culture in the belief it would be a good idea. Besides the political goodwill Belegar would have to waste to try to get dwarfs to open up to each other you be making books that humans could read. You are asking them to share there secrets with humans and it took them centuries just to share things besides making steel.
They get the idea of a book exchange, Mathilde was part of one during the Expedition.

And it's not like this is Runelore here, it's just stuff like what we've already got. It's expensive, not secret.
 
Ok I think you guys are assuming something that would work well with humans will work with dwarfs. The race of perfectionist who hate sharing secrets with each other and going against dwarf culture in the belief it would be a good idea. Besides the political goodwill Belegar would have to waste to try to get dwarfs to open up to each other you be making books that humans could read. You are asking them to share there secrets with humans and it took them centuries just to share things besides making steel.
What? We're talking about something we're basically already doing, just larger. A building with a big pile of Mathilde's books in it, and she allows visitors. Nobody's talking about sharing dwarven secrets, just an aggregation of stuff that's commercially available but dispersed.
 
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Ok I think you guys are assuming something that would work well with humans will work with dwarfs. The race of perfectionist who hate sharing secrets with each other and going against dwarf culture in the belief it would be a good idea. Besides the political goodwill Belegar would have to waste to try to get dwarfs to open up to each other you be making books that humans could read. You are asking them to share there secrets with humans and it took them centuries just to share things besides making steel.
We aren't quite asking that though? We want to create a massive library collating books from all corners of the Old World. That does not require sharing trade secrets, infact we know that Dwarfs keep trade secrets by passing them on through word-of-mouth.
 
Ok I think you guys are assuming something that would work well with humans will work with dwarfs. The race of perfectionist who hate sharing secrets with each other and going against dwarf culture in the belief it would be a good idea. Besides the political goodwill Belegar would have to waste to try to get dwarfs to open up to each other you be making books that humans could read. You are asking them to share there secrets with humans and it took them centuries just to share things besides making steel.
Of course this won't be a binary all-or-nothing deal. Libraries can have multiple levels of access. It's not a deal breaker if there's gonna be a dwarf-only section. Hell, there's probably a Magister-level section too for the advanced topics and magics that would blow up apprentices who attempt the stuff in it.

Edit: Look, I'm not saying you're biased or anything, but your thing against Tzeentch might be coloring your opinions a bit? :V
 
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Ok I think you guys are assuming something that would work well with humans will work with dwarfs. The race of perfectionist who hate sharing secrets with each other and going against dwarf culture in the belief it would be a good idea. Besides the political goodwill Belegar would have to waste to try to get dwarfs to open up to each other you be making books that humans could read. You are asking them to share there secrets with humans and it took them centuries just to share things besides making steel.
If a dwarf has written a book about something they have already committed to sharing it. You don't write a book if you don't want people to read it. (Unless your nagash which really pisses me off. Why write a book and then make traps it in. What a psychopath.)

We are not asking the dwarfs for protected information. We are asking them for information they have already committed to sharing. We do it all the time when we buy dwarf books for our studies. Since its dwarf run they will also have control over what books go into the library. I don't see any issues arising from this that our good name can't smooth over.
 
Y'know, I wonder if you could get use out of a facility for higher magical education; like, it doesn't necessarily teach higher level stuff then the colleges, it just only does the last 50% of the education in a space with much less apprentice Wizards exploding, where you can build it to tailor more for older Wizards.

Not that it's particularly relevant here, you'd probably want such a hypothetical building in the empire.
 
Redeeming the Skaven is not a realistic goal for this quest, and I'm kind of tired hearing it talked about. It's an unatanable pipe dream and I have so many other thing I'd rather do in quest than that even if it were possible.
 
Man, we really didn't do much of our planned turn before we started the final battle of Karak Eight Peaks, did we?
Just the Max, Johann, Duckling, and Qrech actions. No EIC, Serenity, or Penthouse, nor our other three Personal actions.

I'm expecting that Boney won't try to fit it all into a Part 2 and that this will become a three-part turn.
 
Redeeming the Skaven is not a realistic goal for this quest, and I'm kind of tired hearing it talked about. It's an unatanable pipe dream and I have so many other thing I'd rather do in quest than that even if it were possible.

I cannot speak for other people, but unless the QM says its impossible, I think that its doable without even going significantly out of our way, as long as we do not die, based on this quest's power creep. It'll just take triple digits of turns followed by a long event for it to be doable thus. I am willing to wait that much.
 
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I cannot speak for other people, but personally, I think that its doable without even going significantly out of our way, as long as we do not die, based on this quest's power creep. It'll just take triple digits of turns followed by a long event for it to be doable thus. I am willing to wait that much.
'An IRL year of at least a turn every three days' is not what I think anybody would call realistic.
 
'An IRL year of at least a turn every three days' is not what I think anybody would call realistic.

Hey, fair enough, the quest may be abandoned, or hiatused or any of those things.

But it hurts no one to have "destroy the horned rat and redeem the skaven race" in our long term goals, as we'll keep doing what we are currently doing for the foreseeabble future: making the world better and pumping iron. When it becomes feasible, I'll campaign for it, but for now, all I am asking is for it not to be discarded out of hand. There is no negative consequence on keeping it on the "maybe, eventually" collumm of our list indefinitely, after all.
 
Hey, fair enough, the quest may be abandoned, or hiatused or any of those things.

But it hurts no one to have "destroy the horned rat and redeem the skaven race" in our long term goals, as we'll keep doing what we are currently doing for the foreseeabble future: making the world better and pumping iron. When it becomes feasible, I'll campaign for it, but for now, all I am asking is for it not to be discarded out of hand. There is no negative consequence on keeping it on the "maybe, eventually" collumm of our list indefinitely, after all.
It would be easier to just kill Malekith, honestly. Stack Assassin traits and skills, steal the secrets of the Eshin clan and train ourselves in their skills.
 
It would be easier to just kill Malekith, honestly. Stack Assassin traits and skills, steal the secrets of the Eshin clan and train ourselves in their skills.

That uh... VASTLY simplifies killing one of the most powerful people in the setting who almost certainly has top tier assassins gunning for his head on a regular basis.
 
Hey, fair enough, the quest may be abandoned, or hiatused or any of those things.

But it hurts no one to have "destroy the horned rat and redeem the skaven race" in our long term goals, as we'll keep doing what we are currently doing for the foreseeabble future: making the world better and pumping iron. When it becomes feasible, I'll campaign for it, but for now, all I am asking is for it not to be discarded out of hand. There is no negative consequence on keeping it on the "maybe, eventually" collumm of our list indefinitely, after all.
I made a post a long while back on the difference between affecting a setting, and "fixing" a setting. And for me; things like "redeem the Skaven race" and "kill the Hirned Rat" fall into the latter category. It's such a drastic shift on such a fundamental level for the setting that seeing it happen by any method over any span of time is distasteful. It's not about scale or power creep for me, but a narrative and thematic direction that I just can't get behind.
 
That uh... VASTLY simplifies killing one of the most powerful people in the setting who almost certainly has top tier assassins gunning for his head on a regular basis.
Compared to killing the Horned Rat, it is vastly simpler. Stick him with our sword till he is dead. Actually managing that is going to be absurdly hard. But we don't know where to even start with killing a God.
 
unless there is a resurgence for Big Boat, or one of the others... I think Libary is going to take it.

now for an official name... (sure everyone is going to call it 'The Great Library of K8Ps/Karak Nar, but it will have an official name that everyone forgets.. like a real Library.

first nomination, 'The Mathilde Weber Library of Mortal History and Knowledge.'

It doesn't spell Mathilde. 0/10

The Mathilde Azrildrekked Thaumaturgic Institutitional Library - Dokenkroni-a-Endrin

I have no experience with Khazalid beyond the lexicanum and this quest, so somebody correct me on how I butched that last bit.
 
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But it hurts no one to have "destroy the horned rat and redeem the skaven race" in our long term goals...

There is no negative consequence on keeping it on the "maybe, eventually" collumm of our list indefinitely, after all.
It hurts my enjoyment of the quest knowing that there's a possibility of trying to break the setting over our knee in our unmitigated hubris. It is not a realistic or achievable goal in the setting, and merely considering it strikes at my suspension of disbelief and the quest's verisimilitude. Now I expect Boney to be a better QM than to allow this without extreme preparation on the order of decades and centuries of concerted effort, pouring our every action and our entire life into the task to the exclusion of all else, only to find that it may indeed be impossible.
 
It would probably have to be fee-paying, books are just to valuable and expensive in this time period.

but the fee could be very fair.
Depends. I'm not sure if Boney wants us to get into the nitty gritty of library administration but its like so in my head:
-Sections on Secrets(i.e. theory books on Dark Magic, Mutants, the eventual resting place of the Libris, etc): Masters of a related craft in good standing, others only at exceptional need. Knowledge of the section itself probably shouldn't be known.

-Craft Secrets(i.e. books on Magic, Engineering, etc): Access limited to practioners of a related craft, or those which a Master of the craft has vouched for. Either in good standing with the Karak, contribution to the library or for pay.

-Academics(i.e. books on mathematics, sciences, geography, herbology, languages etc): Open access, for significant pay. Payment in kind is accepted, a poor scholar may buy access with contribution or labor(any library of the period needs an army of scribes). Reputation may get you a library pass.

-Common Wisdom and leisure: Open access, for token fee or contribution in kind.

Noting all this is for use *in* the library. You could charge quite a lot for a copy, and I don't think they'd offer loans without some kind of collateral :p

E: Not caught up on thread, too busy with work. x.x
 
But it hurts no one to have "destroy the horned rat and redeem the skaven race" in our long term goals, as we'll keep doing what we are currently doing for the foreseeabble future: making the world better and pumping iron. When it becomes feasible, I'll campaign for it, but for now, all I am asking is for it not to be discarded out of hand. There is no negative consequence on keeping it on the "maybe, eventually" collumm of our list indefinitely, after all.

It kind of does hurt when you try to change it from (My) long term goal to (Our) long term goal. Because then you inevitably get pushback from people who don't like that direction and end up with many other people having to skim past a completely irrelevant discussion.
 
It hurts my enjoyment of the quest knowing that there's a possibility of trying to break the setting over our knee in our unmitigated hubris.
Eh, it does not break mine. After all, the Warhammer Setting is full of people who did the sort of Grand Deeds you speak of, which involved breaking the setting in an entirely new way.

Like we kill Horned Rat. Okay. A god is dead now. What happens to all the warp stuff that made it? Can Nagash revive him as an Undead God? Will his death make a warp gate of some kind? Will he command the Skaven to unite and avenge him in his last moments?
 
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